An Olympic Boycott: would it have any effect at all?

[martha]

Wasn't it also a bit "messy" when some of these people went through the Cultural Revolution?

 

[butter7]

Wasn't it also a bit "messy" when some of these people went through the Cultural Revolution?

People got caught in Cultural Revolution are hitting their middle 50 to 60, and now preparing for their retired life.

China has 5000 years history, and the history has loads of events that 100 times more messy than the cultural revolution.

 

[martha]

You really should work for the government PR department when you go back home.

 

[butter7]

You really should work for the government PR department when you go back home.

Grab a history book and read it yourself.

 

[martha]

After you.

 

[butter7]

After you.

Chinese history is the compulsory subject since Jr high.

PS
In the highschool geography graduaction exam that I sat for, the last question is picture based, two options: 1, wrote the name of the state of the US, student got marked on the correct name. 2, draw the map of Australia, and the lines that distinguish the amout of rainfall that caused the differente geographycal appearance of each region. I did the second one.

I wonder how America school teach and test their students? Why so many pro-tibet people have no idea where Tibet is?

 

[martha]

Chinese history is the compulsory subject since Jr high.

What an interesting version you must get.

 

[melon]

It's my personal view that each nation's take on history is tainted with historically inaccurate nationalism--both China and the U.S. included. It is often less about fabricating history, and more about what I'd call "sins of omission"; that is, glossing over certain parts of history, while fixating on others.

And, yes, I do know where Tibet is on the map.

 

[martha]

And, yes, I do know where Tibet is on the map.

Me too.

 

[butter7]

It's my personal view that each nation's take on history is tainted with historically inaccurate nationalism--both China and the U.S. included. It is often less about fabricating history, and more about what I'd call "sins of omission"; that is, glossing over certain parts of history, while fixating on others.

And, yes, I do know where Tibet is on the map.

I know what you mean, and I agree with you in certain extent. However, if you use the America standard to see China, it's not going to get a correct result.

China is only a communist country for 50 years, compare with the nation's history, the CCP is just like a drop of water in an great ocean.

It's a Chinese tradition that the current government are not allowed to write it's own history, but only the previous government that was pulled down. e.g the official history book for the Qin dynasty was wrote by the history officer of Han dynasty; the official history book for Ming dynasty was wrote by the history officer of Qing dynasty; and the Republic of China government was reponsible for the Qing history. By letting your former enemy to write your history, the history itself could be recorded in a way without any personal favour. The CCP gov is not qualify to write any history book yet, because the Republic of China government is still exist in Taiwan.

If you use this standard for American history, that would be no history book that could qualify it, since the US hasn't changed it's social system ever since the first day, except for the American Indian part.

 

[butter7]

The Olympic Torch Relay Campaign

2008/04/08 LHASA/BERLIN

(Own report) - Conference reports and the research of a Canadian journalist reveal that a German Foreign Ministry front organization is playing a decisive role in the preparations of the anti-Chinese Tibet campaign. According to this information, the campaign is being orchestrated from a Washington based headquarters. It had been assigned the task of organizing worldwide "protests" at a conference organized by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation (affiliated with the German Free Democratic Party - FDP) in May 2007. The plans were developed with the collaboration of the US State Department and the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile and call for high profile actions along the route of the Olympic Torch Relay and are supposed to reach a climax in August during the games in Beijing. The campaign began already last summer and is now profiting from the current uprising in the west of the People's Republic of China that is receiving prominent coverage in the German media. The uprising was initiated with murderous pogrom-like attacks by Tibetan gangs on non-Tibetan members of the population, including the Muslim Chinese minority. Numerous deaths of non-Tibetans provoked a reaction of the Chinese security forces.

According to the research by a Canadian journalist, a conference organized by the Friedrich Naumann Foundation (FNSt) gave the impetus to the current anti-Chinese Tibet campaign that violently forced the interruption of the Olympian Torch Relay in Paris last Monday.[1] The conference was the fifth "International Tibet Support Groups Conference," that was held from May 11 - 14, 2007 in Brussels. According to FNSt information this conference was supposed to do nothing other than the four preceding conferences [2] - "coordinate the work of the international Tibet groups and consolidate the links between them with the central Tibetan Government in Exile."[3] The German foundation, which is largely state financed, began the conference preparations in March 2005, and coordinated its plans with the Dalai Lama at his headquarters in the self-proclaimed Tibetan Government in Exile in Dharamsala, India. More than 300 participants from 56 countries, 36 Tibetan associations and 145 Tibet support groups were represented at the conference.

This is the first two paragraphs of the article, if you interested in reading the original complete article, here is the link:
http://www.german-foreign-policy.com/en/fulltext/56145

I found this one interesting because the full chinese translation version is the headline of the probably most important Chinese newspaper for foreign politics on 13-04-08.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I know what you mean, and I agree with you in certain extent. However, if you use the America standard to see China, it's not going to get a correct result.

China is only a communist country for 50 years, compare with the nation's history, the CCP is just like a drop of water in an great ocean.

It's a Chinese tradition that the current government are not allowed to write it's own history, but only the previous government that was pulled down. e.g the official history book for the Qin dynasty was wrote by the history officer of Han dynasty; the official history book for Ming dynasty was wrote by the history officer of Qing dynasty; and the Republic of China government was reponsible for the Qing history. By letting your former enemy to write your history, the history itself could be recorded in a way without any personal favour. The CCP gov is not qualify to write any history book yet, because the Republic of China government is still exist in Taiwan.

If you use this standard for American history, that would be no history book that could qualify it, since the US hasn't changed it's social system ever since the first day, except for the American Indian part.

The abolition of slavery, westward expansion, imperial ambition and civil rights and liberties being expanded to minorities seem like significant changes in social system.

 

[BVS]

If you use this standard for American history, that would be no history book that could qualify it, since the US hasn't changed it's social system ever since the first day, except for the American Indian part.

Your posts make a lot more sense now...

 

[BoMac]

It's my personal view that each nation's take on history is tainted with historically inaccurate nationalism--both China and the U.S. included. It is often less about fabricating history, and more about what I'd call "sins of omission"; that is, glossing over certain parts of history, while fixating on others.

While I'm inclined to agree with you here, certain "dark periods" of any given nation's history are at the very least mentioned in class and/or textbooks.

Here in Quebec we studied in depth the rise and fall of the extremist separatist movement, which culminated with the 1970 October Crisis. While textbooks may have glossed over certain facts, we nevertheless debated many of the topics in class. The onus falls on the teacher to go beyond the textbook, I suppose.

Maybe Vincent Vega can elaborate, but it's my understanding that German students learn all about Nazi Germany etc.

Tell me butter7, what do you know about June 4,1989? Was is it even mentioned in school at all?

 

[Vincent Vega]

Maybe Vincent Vega can elaborate, but it's my understanding that German students learn all about Nazi Germany etc.

That's basically right. We spend at least 25% of history classes on WWII. We learn almost nothing about what happened after 1948, when the German states were founded. The last two school years it will all revolve around the time of the Weimar Republic to the end of WWII. And it's usually not limited to history classes.

And I think it's important that this is done. Too many are still too uninformed about what has happened. But I also think it would be necessary to learn some about the more recent history up until reunification. That's often rushed through as time is running out.

Currently, there is a German version of the movie "The Wave" in the cinemas, and for a German movie it is very good. Its depiction of how easy an authoritarian movement is started and gets out of hand is frightening, but I would see it's not unrealistic or exagerated.

But I digress...

The page, German Foreign Policy, has an interesting editorial:

Editorial
"Information on German Foreign Policy" (german-foreign-policy.com) is compiled by a group of independent journalists and social scientists who observe, on an ongoing basis, Germany's renewed attempts to regain great power status in the economic, military and political arena.

The daily news, interviews and background information should be read against the background of the formative tendencies of German history. For this purpose, the column "History" provides extensive analyses.

"Information on German Foreign Policy" (german-foreign-policy.com) enables the readers to get in touch with journalists and social scientists who are considered specialists in numerous areas of German foreign policy. They are available as experts at scholarly conferences and as policy advisors in Germany and abroad.

The editors appreciate feedback and welcome supplements to our news and analyses. They welcome specific comments, especially from abroad.

The Editors

The editors have close links to socialists movements in Germany and I would call their objectivity into question (some of the socialist movement here still lives behind the moon, to be honest).
I'm not saying we shouldn't monitor what our government is doing, we certainly should, though I don't agree with the authors' perception that we are trying to grab for world domination again (if we did I would be busy with other things, after all ).

Here's the link to an article the author is taking some information from: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...wtibetcampaign0328/BNStory/International/home

 

[butter7]

Tell me butter7, what do you know about June 4,1989? Was is it even mentioned in school at all?

Didn't I make it clear in the previous post? Until we overthrown the CCP government, we can't write history for the events that happened in the CCP period.

The June 4, 1989 is a popular topic to give a speech, for the social science professor who wanted attact more students to select his lecture. Similar topics also included discussions about the previous massive mistakes and failed policies that CCP made; international security and terrorism; anything about Iraq; the possitive outcome from 9-11; international politics and oil.

However, speeches and talkes is not the official history book. Unlike German students, like Vincent Vega mentioned, Chinese student spend very little time for WWII history in comparison. Both the WWII and the civial war history didn't extent more than five chapters, including the hisotory of the previous republic of China government and the CCP. In another hand, we got 6 whole-book of ancient history to chew down.

And for the modern Tibet history, the recommend reading is the book called: A History of Modern Tibet, 1913-1951 by Melvyn C. Goldstein, because we currently are not allowed to release any official version of the hisotry book for that period of time.

 

[deep]

Your posts make a lot more sense now...

too bad

you did not understand

what she wrote

 

[BVS]

No, I understood, and it put a lot of her other comments on America in context...

 

[butter7]

On Sunday, April 13, 2008, Bush National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley talked about Nepal on A B C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efnNm-5AFG0

I found this video is really shocking. As a politician that hold the place like "National Security Advisor" really shouldn't make this kind of mistake.

Did anyone here watch the entire interview on TV? Any clue about this?

 

[yolland]

Hadley had discussed the same issue (i.e. the Olympics, China, and Tibet) on FOX Network earlier the same morning, and didn't make the Tibet/Nepal mistake at that time. I think what happened was that the segment just before Hadley's on ABC featured an interview with Jimmy Carter, who was in Nepal monitoring the elections, and discussed Nepal with the ABC host (Stephanopoulos). As a result Hadley probably "had Nepal on the brain," as we say, when he went on-set, and thus proceeded to incorrectly say "Nepal" instead of "Tibet" five times. It's still pretty embarrassing that neither Hadley nor, apparently, Stephanopoulos ever caught the mistake, but I think crossed wires resulting from Carter's segment was the likely explanation.

 

[butter7]

Thanks yolland for the info.

 

[deep]

No, I understood, and it put a lot of her other comments on America in context...

sorry

I thought the laughing icon meant you were dismissing her

my bad


I really appreciate Butter taking the time to converse with us

to give us a perspective of a person that was born in China and has lived there and experienced things from that side of the world.

 

[butter7]

My pleasure, deep.

U2 fans are friend.

The abolition of slavery, westward expansion, imperial ambition and civil rights and liberties being expanded to minorities seem like significant changes in social system.

Just like I said before, the American standard doesn't fit China, the Chinese standard won't fit America either.

The key fact is that in China when one dynastry replace another, the country's name would be changed. Think about it this way: One dog initially called "Tobby", went lost, got rescued, adopted by another person, a U2 fan, and the new owner decided to call it "Bono". The change of dynasty is actually the change of the ownership for the piece of land that we called China nowadays. But the change of the American government isn't the change of ownership of the piece of land, is it? However, the American Indian part is.