An issue of fan loyalty, or complete ignorance?

[Flying FuManchu]

And last but not least what does U2 have to do with it? We don't have to follow everything U2 says, believe it or not this is not a religion, sometimes our opinions may differ from a band we like.

If not, we all would have thought the mullet was cool back in the 80's.

at mullets.

 

[A_Wanderer]

 

[dlihcraw]

Muhammad was a fair and balanced negotiator? I have tremendous respect for him, and that respect comes from the fact that he negotiated for peace when he knew he could not win. He would very often cancel the treaty over something minor, when he knew his military stregnth was superior.

This is what many islamofacists are preaching today.

On the contrary, he advocated peaceful relations before violence. The Stone of Mecca had broken and the pagan tribal leaders were fighting over who should take the responsibility to fix it. Before violence broke out, Muhammad, who had little interest in the pagans' disputes, suggested everyone work together to rebuild the statute. In return for his fair and balanced judgement, Muhammad was invited by the pagans to be the one to reveal the repaired stone. When Muhammad was driven out of Mecca with force and the life of himself and his family were put in jeopardy, he began permitting force.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Then the Islamofascists are deviating from the teachings of Mohammed and are therefore are not representative of Islam - which is why they should not be allowed to subjegate innocent people in the name of Islam.

 

[dlihcraw]

Islamic fundamentalists, right or wrong, are reactionaries. War should only be pursued as the last available option. The infidel is television, it is the internet, it is McDonald’s! In what took the western world decades, arguably centuries of intense debate to establish, the Islamic world has been subjected to over night. Democracy, commercialism, feminism, these are all foreign, but dominating concepts in contemporary Islam. But why have these concepts been introduced to the middle-east, why have Muslims been asked to change their cultural values overnight? I think it is more than obvious that reactionaries would arise in such a situation. Did America not have reactionaries to communism? Does it still not? The difference is the majority of Islamic people do not have the same societal avenues or technology necessary to politically combat the invasion of foreign values, so they adopt the most affordable measures, which to the western world seem morally wrong. However, if western values were introduced into the middle-east through moderation, and if acknowledgment was given to the Islamic value system, much of the present “terrorist” problem could have been avoided.

 

[dlihcraw]

Pooh.

 

[indra]

Pooh.

I think that says it all!

All of what, I have no idea, but it's late and I feel like doing a bit of post-whoring, so there you go!

 

[dlihcraw]

Pee?

 

[U2Kitten]

SBS, and Peace On Earth, are partly songs lamenting victims of terrorism- the IRA were terrorists.

He said at the NYC concert that 'bin Laden could kiss his royal Irish ass'

 

[hiphop]

He said at the NYC concert that 'bin Laden could kiss his royal Irish ass'

Great (and very typical) for Bono if he said so. I must admit that sometimes I am getting tired of his remarks. I´m sure he knows how to get a good laugh, and I absolutely appreciate his continuing fight (re: last speech), but was this remark of any use except to portray himself in his favourite cool rockstar mentality?

-edited to add: sorry to derail this thread. I think it is indeed a very interesting thread, and while I do not agree with some of Warchild´s opinions (if I may interprete them as opinions), I value the contributions that are made by Warchild, because I definitely learned one or two new things about Islam that I did not know before.

I respect good education and modesty. Let´s keep this discussion on a basic level of respect, if we can.

 

[verte76]

The Islamic value system is egalitarian as all people are believed to be equal before Allah. That's why everyone dresses simply and doesn't wear any jewelry or whatever when they do the pilgrimage to Mecca. However, the unit of society is not the individual as it is in Western society. It's the family, with the eldest male as the wielder of power in society. This produces a drastically different worldview that's unlike ours. That's why a philosophy like feminism is so explosive and controversial, it goes against their patriarchal social system. It's going as far as requests being issued in Afghanistan for female election workers to visit homes to register women voters as they aren't supposed to leave the home unescorted by a male relative or her husband.

 

[A_Wanderer]

Male dominated societies should not excuse severe human rights abuses (femal genital mutilation, honour killings and wife beating), there is no justification on this earth religious or otherwise that can be used to enable them - such practices are barbaric and are no different than sati and thugee.

 

[verte76]

Male dominated societies should not excuse severe human rights abuses (femal genital mutilation, honour killings and wife beating), there is no justification on this earth religious or otherwise that can be used to enable them - such practices are barbaric and are no different than sati and thugee.

I absolutely agree. The main character in the "Princess Trilogy" books by Jean Sasson is a princess in the House of Al-Saud but she doesn't have any rights in her society because of her gender. Women are just about slaves in Wahhabist Saudi Arabia. It's a disgrace. She is trying to do something about it, but it's incredibly difficult, it's actually downright dangerous. The system is truly evil.

 

[verte76]

Damn, I double-posted.

 

[A_Wanderer]

And thats now like a triple post

Hey, your allright

 

[bonosloveslave]

I took care of ya verte

 

[dlihcraw]

The Islamic value system is egalitarian as all people are believed to be equal before Allah. That's why everyone dresses simply and doesn't wear any jewelry or whatever when they do the pilgrimage to Mecca. However, the unit of society is not the individual as it is in Western society. It's the family, with the eldest male as the wielder of power in society. This produces a drastically different worldview that's unlike ours. That's why a philosophy like feminism is so explosive and controversial, it goes against their patriarchal social system. It's going as far as requests being issued in Afghanistan for female election workers to visit homes to register women voters as they aren't supposed to leave the home unescorted by a male relative or her husband.

You're are absolutely right, and like you later say, such a system is disturbing. However, the western world cannot expect the Islamic world to adopt feminism over night. Woman in North America only got the right to vote less than a hundred years ago, before they were considered the property of their fathers or husbands and could not legally inherit property themselves. Blacks and aboriginals got the full right to vote (i.e. without physical prevention) fifty years ago. Change will come to the middle-east. Why else would such resistance to western values exist? But the western world must have patience and employ a sense of moderation when dealing with the middle-east. Sex In The City should not be Islam's introduction to feminism.

(Most Muslims live outside the middle-east. Most live in more moderate societies. Where I refer to "Islam" and the "middle-east" above, I mean those middle-eastern countries that follow the beliefs and laws of Islam most strictly.)

 

[LoveTown]

wow...something I dont agree with Bono on...I AM a pacifist. Am I getting more liberal or is he getting more conservative? Actually, Im more conservative than I used to be so I KNOW he's getting more conservative lol

Anyway, differences make the world more interesting!