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Old 02-27-2007, 03:08 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Justin24
I swear I don't get some of you. You go around and bash the fuck out of Bush. Gore who is going around slamming the administration about it's lack of doing something to stop global warming uses 20times more energy than a regular house hold. And he still complains about the war in iraq, while that oil lights his house at 30 grand a month.
He's not just "slamming" this administration, he's speaking globally.

And what is Gore using his household for, how many employees are working from his house, etc...

A bill is useless without context. So until you have any of that, be quiet and do what you can for the planet.

Medeval vs. current times? SUV vs covered wagons?

Seriously, this is what you guys come up with?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:10 PM   #62
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Originally posted by INDY500

or envy (depending on if you live here or not)


Hahahaha, got me.

Envy of not living in the US! Great
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:11 PM   #63
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Originally posted by INDY500

Only because we are also the most productive nation in the history of the planet Earth. We are also the richest and enjoy the greatest standard of living in the history or the planet Earth. I'm proud of that.

Incorrect.

http://forum.interference.com/showth...dard+of+living
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:11 PM   #64
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Gore is fraud. And believe me, the Republicans have their fair share of frauds as well.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:14 PM   #65
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Originally posted by INDY500

Only because we are also the most productive nation in the history of the planet Earth. We are also the richest and enjoy the greatest standard of living in the history or the planet Earth. I'm proud of that.

But some people have a problem with that, and it is that very guilt, or envy (depending on if you live here or not) that much of us "skeptics" see as pushing this issue forward more than any science.
Did the Earth warm by 0.7 degrees Celsius in the 20th century?
Yes.
Was this manmade or cyclical?
I'm not sure.
Is this necessarily even a bad thing?
Again I'm not sure.
Shouldn't we be doing something?
What are the costs? What would be the results?
and, as the richest nation on earth -- but not the highest standard of living, Norway wins that -- it is incumbent upon us to not trash that which has given us so much.

and, yes, i hear the whole, "oh yeah? well you're just JEALOUS" that Americans often throw back in the face of criticism. and, often, they're right, it is just jealousy. but that has absolutely nothing to do with carbon emissions.

as for "the costs" of global warming -- well, if you'd like to SCUBA dive Venice, please, continue to pretend there's no problem.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:16 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by AEON
Gore is fraud. And believe me, the Republicans have their fair share of frauds as well.
Does that detract from the issue at all?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:20 PM   #67
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Originally posted by AEON
Gore is fraud. And believe me, the Republicans have their fair share of frauds as well.
I'm curious if you plan on adding to the discussion or if you think an electricity bill speaks for itself.

I'm sure I could find a bill from your past and twist it into hypocricy as well.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:25 PM   #68
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But it doesn't change the fact, that we with our over-consumption of fuels and pollution of the air we breath, don't change the future we will haveto live in to our disadvantage.
Depends on who you ask. Today, in 2007, over 2 billion people still don't use electricity to provide lights, heat, cooling or refrigeration. They instead breathe the dirty smoke of wood or dung fires that they use for warmth or cooking. Shall we deny to them that which we enjoy and in fact would consider essential to modern life, in the name of possibly preventing "climate change."
What of their disadvantage?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:34 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

Depends on who you ask. Today, in 2007, over 2 billion people still don't use electricity to provide lights, heat, cooling or refrigeration. They instead breathe the dirty smoke of wood or dung fires that they use for warmth or cooking. Shall we deny to them that which we enjoy and in fact would consider essential to modern life, in the name of possibly preventing "climate change."
What of their disadvantage?
What? Are you saying that by the US (and the rest of the "technologically advanced" world) adjusting the amount of emissions we put in the air this is somehow going to negatively effect the standard of living of someone cooking over a dung fire?

The effect of going with a more environmentally sound lifestyle would not crush the American economy. California is the greenest state in the union and seem to be doing ok. The average household would feel a pinch at first, but eventually it would be absorbed the way any price is absorbed. We're paying more than twice for gas than we did just a few years ago, and the stock maket didn't crash.

I don't understand how anyone can be AGAINST wanting to make things better and cleaner? Please, someone, explain to me what you could possible feel is a valid reason to not wanting to improve the environment?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:34 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

Depends on who you ask. Today, in 2007, over 2 billion people still don't use electricity to provide lights, heat, cooling or refrigeration. They instead breathe the dirty smoke of wood or dung fires that they use for warmth or cooking. Shall we deny to them that which we enjoy and in fact would consider essential to modern life, in the name of possibly preventing "climate change."
What of their disadvantage?
I don't understand what you are saying here...

So it's okay to not feel guilty by driving a big SUV (for example) because some person in Africa Can't?

Meanwhille we should feel guilty for abolishing standard light bulbs (for example) becase those same people in Africa will never get the chance to use one?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:34 PM   #71
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

Depends on who you ask. Today, in 2007, over 2 billion people still don't use electricity to provide lights, heat, cooling or refrigeration. They instead breathe the dirty smoke of wood or dung fires that they use for warmth or cooking. Shall we deny to them that which we enjoy and in fact would consider essential to modern life, in the name of possibly preventing "climate change."
What of their disadvantage?


and what's going to happen when a billion Chinese and a billion more Indians start to want to live like your average North American or Western European with cars and washing machines?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:35 PM   #72
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Originally posted by Vincent Vega




Hahahaha, got me.

Envy of not living in the US! Great
Yes, our beer is terrible, we only have a short 200 or so years of history to admire, no one knows how to prepare schnitzel, and we have dreadfully slow speed limits on our highways.

Still, not so bad.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:38 PM   #73
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I was speaking of over-consumption. Does that ring any bells?

I wouldn't deny anyone a reasonable standard of living. But I would greatly welcome it if we showed them a way to develop without going through the stages we went through.

And it's really very funny. Only because there are also natural effects possibly causing a climatic change we should go on burning the fossil fuels to no good when we have the technology to save some of that, still enjoying the same possibilities.
We are accelerating the climate change, and worsening its effects. Why?
This is the future, we and our children have to live in. Why are we so opportunistic to seeking every excuse we can find, or that gets sponsored by the oil industry, only to deny that we at least could make our future worse.

Even if it was a more questionable hypothesis, that our pollution has an effect on the climate, why should we go on using these questionable, wasting cars, technology and so on.
Only so that we can say in some 30 years, "Oh well, now even I believe that we screwed up.", or the other way round, "Great, I was right and you were wrong!"?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:40 PM   #74
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Originally posted by Irvine511




and what's going to happen when a billion Chinese and a billion more Indians start to want to live like your average North American or Western European with cars and washing machines?
Well, we're gonna find out aren't we, as they (and India) are exempt from Kyoto. China alone plans on building over 2000 new coal plants in the next 25 years.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:44 PM   #75
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Originally posted by INDY500

Well, we're gonna find out aren't we, as they (and India) are exempt from Kyoto. China alone plans on building over 2000 new coal plants in the next 25 years.
Well, I guess we're all fucked then... I don't know about the rest of you but I'm going to go out and buy the biggest SUV I can find and run over as many endangered species as I can since the world is pretty much going to blow up in 25 years...

Oh and don't worry, thanks to all the McDonalds I'm chugging back I won't be alive to see this anyhow...

Live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse....

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Old 02-27-2007, 03:45 PM   #76
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Originally posted by INDY500


Yes, our beer is terrible, we only have a short 200 or so years of history to admire, no one knows how to prepare schnitzel, and we have dreadfully slow speed limits on our highways.

Still, not so bad.
Social security to the minimum, huge costs for higher education, health insurance only when you have the money, hire and fire, less holidays per year, way more murderers each year...

Believe me, not everybody dreams of living in the USA.
You have some beautiful landscape, some nice products and inventions, wonderful people, and so on. Still I prefer the US as a place to make holidays or spent some limited years of my life. For the rest my dream is rather Australia than the USA.
You can make a good living outside the US, and it's funny when some exchange students come back to telling you that hey got asked questions like, "do you have electricity/running water/TV in Germany?" and such.

Regarding the history: Our history started in 1945, on May 9.

All the history before still is the second world war.
Many people really don't get any further than that time.
So 200 years is quite a time of history.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:46 PM   #77
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Medeval vs. current times? SUV vs covered wagons?

Seriously, this is what you guys come up with?
New York City will flood and all the polar bears will die if we don't hand over control of our economy to the U.N.

Scare tactics and panic. Is that the best you guys can come up with?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:47 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by INDY500

[...]enjoy the greatest standard of living in the history or the planet Earth. I'm proud of that.
a great percentage of your own population would disagree.
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:48 PM   #79
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Originally posted by UberBeaver
I don't understand how anyone can be AGAINST wanting to make things better and cleaner? Please, someone, explain to me what you could possible feel is a valid reason to not wanting to improve the environment?
I'm not going to get an answer, am I?
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Old 02-27-2007, 03:49 PM   #80
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


I'm curious if you plan on adding to the discussion or if you think an electricity bill speaks for itself.

I'm sure I could find a bill from your past and twist it into hypocricy as well.
When one of the most popular preachers in the US gets caught buying drugs and perhaps paying for homosexual sex – that pastor loses credibility. When a public figure like Al Gore gets exposed for living a life completely contrary to what he preaches, he loses credibility.

I don’t think we expect Mr. Gore to be living in a hemp shack in the woods eating Trader Joe’s Moonberry Jelly. However, I think we should expect Mr. Gore to be a vanguard of the “green” lifestyle (electric car, cutting edge solar power at home...etc).
Is that unfair? Perhaps. But that is another debate.

I will give him some credit however. His invention of the Internet has cut down on much of the military paperwork I used to have to carry around. Now it is all in my AKO account. Thanks Mr. Gore!
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