An athiestic President? - Page 2

Zooropa · 07-06-2002, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by The Wanderer
I think it is a high probability that we've already had a President(s) who were atheistic; obviously none of them went on record as such, because it would be political suicide. So yes, I do think we will have atheist Presidents, if we haven't had them already, but only on the stipulation that they don't disclose this to anyone.

That kinda ties in to my original post, an acknowledged atheist wouldn't be elected. I agree with you Wanderer, I do believe we have had atheistic Presidents before, they just didn't publicize it.

The Wanderer · 07-07-2002, 01:53 AM

how is it "wishful thinking" on my part, sting2?

I think people are fooling themselves if they believe that all these politicians who claim to be spiritual and/or "good, devout christians" are being completely honest

I'm not saying that all politicians who lie, blur or stretch the truth about their religious convictions are neceassarily atheists, but I think many are laying down some serious *b.s.* when they suddenly start making their religious beliefs a campaign issue because they've checked the polls or found a perceived weakness in their oppenents character

STING2 · 07-07-2002, 02:26 PM

The fact is that 95% of people in the USA believe in God. Politicians are not aliens, they come from the population. Just look at the voting on the whole "Under God" issue. It is very reasonable that a person who believes in God would vote with the 9th circuit, but I highly doubt someone who did not believe would vote against it, even if he was as you say living a lie. Of course what you say is not impossible, but there is nothing to indicate that it is so or might be true in any particular instance. If you think otherwise, name the president.

The Wanderer · 07-07-2002, 04:20 PM

where did you get your 95% statistic, out of curiosity

you're probably right about there being no atheist presidents, though I am sure more than one where perhaps, skeptics, but I'll concede here and say you're probably right about presidents, but I think there have probably been too numerous cases to count in regards to Congress and the Senate -- I'm sure there are probably members in there right now who keep up the facade of having religion/faith because they know they can't be elected otherwise

Achtung Bubba · 07-07-2002, 06:34 PM

Do some politicians say they believe in God and don't really mean it? Sure. Does that include American Presidents? Probably. Does that mean they're atheists? No, I don't think so.

There are many people who go to church and who (theoretically) believe in God but don't believe the fact in their hearts: when it comes down to brass tacks, their behavior doesn't coincide with the behavior of a God-fearing individual.

What I'm saying is that there are those whose belief in God is sincere - that they're not closet atheists - but that the sincere belief is shallow.

The really interesting thing is that everyone else - the conscious atheist who claims to believe in God and the deeply religious - probably feel similar pangs of guilt when they say they believe in God: the atheist knows he's lying, and the believer recalls those times he hasn't acted like a believer.

STING2 · 07-08-2002, 01:24 AM

I have seen the 95% statistic published numerous times from publications like, Time, Newsweek, US News and World Report, Economist and other magazines and news papers in addition to CNN and other TV. Sorry I'm not siting a specific source on the web. Personally though from my experience, I have found it to be more like 99.99%+. Of course here at interference, the number of people that have participated in the poll has produced a result of around 85%. The mere fact that any politician would have to keep up a facade clearly shows that the percentage number is extremely high. The "Pledge" vote in the senate was 99 to 0, would have been 100 to 0 if Jesse had been there to vote. In the House the vote on the "Pledge" was 432 to 3. The 3 who voted differently noted they believed in God.

The Wanderer · 07-08-2002, 10:48 PM

the vote on the "Pledge" means nothing, no politician in their right mind would do something that made them an outcast, the reason I asked your sources is beccause I thought I remeber seeing the number in the mid-80 percentile range, but I might be wrong, I'm sure there are a number of different polls floating around out there, all seem to be in the 85 - 95% range

07-07-2002, 01:53 AM	#22
The Wanderer Kid A Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 5,271 Local Time: 03:21 PM	how is it "wishful thinking" on my part, sting2? I think people are fooling themselves if they believe that all these politicians who claim to be spiritual and/or "good, devout christians" are being completely honest I'm not saying that all politicians who lie, blur or stretch the truth about their religious convictions are neceassarily atheists, but I think many are laying down some serious b.s. when they suddenly start making their religious beliefs a campaign issue because they've checked the polls or found a perceived weakness in their oppenents character __________________

07-07-2002, 06:34 PM	#25
Achtung Bubba Refugee Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: One Nation. Under God. Posts: 1,513 Local Time: 03:21 PM	Do some politicians say they believe in God and don't really mean it? Sure. Does that include American Presidents? Probably. Does that mean they're atheists? No, I don't think so. There are many people who go to church and who (theoretically) believe in God but don't believe the fact in their hearts: when it comes down to brass tacks, their behavior doesn't coincide with the behavior of a God-fearing individual. What I'm saying is that there are those whose belief in God is sincere - that they're not closet atheists - but that the sincere belief is shallow. The really interesting thing is that everyone else - the conscious atheist who claims to believe in God and the deeply religious - probably feel similar pangs of guilt when they say they believe in God: the atheist knows he's lying, and the believer recalls those times he hasn't acted like a believer. __________________ DISCLAIMER: The author of the preceding is known for engaing in very long discussions.

07-08-2002, 10:48 PM	#27
The Wanderer Kid A Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 5,271 Local Time: 03:21 PM	the vote on the "Pledge" means nothing, no politician in their right mind would do something that made them an outcast, the reason I asked your sources is beccause I thought I remeber seeing the number in the mid-80 percentile range, but I might be wrong, I'm sure there are a number of different polls floating around out there, all seem to be in the 85 - 95% range __________________

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07-07-2002, 02:26 PM	#23
STING2 Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 8,876 Local Time: 08:21 PM	The fact is that 95% of people in the USA believe in God. Politicians are not aliens, they come from the population. Just look at the voting on the whole "Under God" issue. It is very reasonable that a person who believes in God would vote with the 9th circuit, but I highly doubt someone who did not believe would vote against it, even if he was as you say living a lie. Of course what you say is not impossible, but there is nothing to indicate that it is so or might be true in any particular instance. If you think otherwise, name the president.

07-07-2002, 04:20 PM	#24
The Wanderer Kid A Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Holy Roman Empire Posts: 5,271 Local Time: 03:21 PM	where did you get your 95% statistic, out of curiosity you're probably right about there being no atheist presidents, though I am sure more than one where perhaps, skeptics, but I'll concede here and say you're probably right about presidents, but I think there have probably been too numerous cases to count in regards to Congress and the Senate -- I'm sure there are probably members in there right now who keep up the facade of having religion/faith because they know they can't be elected otherwise

07-08-2002, 01:24 AM	#26
STING2 Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Oct 2001 Posts: 8,876 Local Time: 08:21 PM	I have seen the 95% statistic published numerous times from publications like, Time, Newsweek, US News and World Report, Economist and other magazines and news papers in addition to CNN and other TV. Sorry I'm not siting a specific source on the web. Personally though from my experience, I have found it to be more like 99.99%+. Of course here at interference, the number of people that have participated in the poll has produced a result of around 85%. The mere fact that any politician would have to keep up a facade clearly shows that the percentage number is extremely high. The "Pledge" vote in the senate was 99 to 0, would have been 100 to 0 if Jesse had been there to vote. In the House the vote on the "Pledge" was 432 to 3. The 3 who voted differently noted they believed in God.