American Taliban soldier

[TheU2]

What do you all think of this?

Kid trying to find his way going terrible astray?

Traitor who should be thrown before American Court for treason?

Kill him?

Personally, I waver toward the first notion...a kid gone terrible astray. Bring him home and get him some help.



------------------
Kennedy

[wolfwill23]

Get him some help? This is a kid who was toting an AK-47 and using it against American servicemen and women.

The constutition is very clear about this one. Something to the effect of if you bare arms against your country in a time of war, you are committing treason.

Try him in court or don't let him back into the country. I have no mercy for someone who chose to fight against Americans in this war.

[TheU2]

Do you think he knew he was fighting against America?

------------------
Kennedy

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by TheU2:
Do you think he knew he was fighting against America?

Yes, didn't his Dad say he went to Afghanistan after 9/11?

[wolfwill23]

Do you think he knew he was fighting against America? Huh?! Hell yes he knew.

Shortly after the bombing of the USS Cole, where 19 lives were taken, this piece of trash told his dad that he was happy it happened. He also said he supported the 9-11 attacks.

[DoctorGonzo]

Yes, didn't his Dad say he went to Afghanistan after 9/11?

No.

He went there 6 months ago.

Get him some help? This is a kid who was toting an AK-47 and using it against American servicemen and women.

Prove it.

Prove that he engaged in combat against U.S soliders.

The constutition is very clear about this one. Something to the effect of if you bare arms against your country in a time of war, you are committing treason.

It says that treason requires 2 witnesses or a confession.

So far, I'll I've heard is that he joined the Taliban 6 months ago and was sent to fight in Kashmir. Nothing about fighting the U.S

Try him in court or don't let him back into the country. I have no mercy for someone who chose to fight against Americans in this war.

The interesting thing is, there was no war when he joined up. He did not choose to fight in this war.

There is no proof that he even fought U.S personell.

I'm not defending him by any means, just clarifying some points.

One could even argue that he was no longer a citizen by the time he was captured, if it was determined that he had voluntarily expatriated himself, it would negate any treason charges.

[speedracer]

Dr. Gonzo,

While it's likely he never engaged in combat with US forces, he must have known after 2.5 months of fighting that the US was backing the Northern Alliance.

[TheU2]

Originally posted by speedracer:
Dr. Gonzo,

While it's likely he never engaged in combat with US forces, he must have known after 2.5 months of fighting that the US was backing the Northern Alliance.

Do you think this kid had access to any credible media? When was the last time he saw a TV or read a newspaper? The only thing this kid was fed was propaganda lies. For all he knew, he probably thought that it was Russia who was dropping bombs on his head.

CK

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by DoctorGonzo:
No.

He went there 6 months ago.

Thanks for clarifying that, DoctorGonzo. I read about it when the story first broke, and his Dad said that until recently, he had not eve known that his son had even gone to Afghanistan.

Keep in mind that I did not indicate one way or the other what I think should be done with him.

~U2Alabama

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by TheU2:
Do you think this kid had access to any credible media? When was the last time he saw a TV or read a newspaper? The only thing this kid was fed was propaganda lies. For all he knew, he probably thought that it was Russia who was dropping bombs on his head.
CK

How could that be the case, with his superior officers yelling "Death to the great Satan America!" every 3 minutes?
Do you really think the Taliban soldiers don't know who they're fighting? No way. They consider it an honor to die if they can kill a few westerners while doing so.
Besides, in Newseek, he was quoted as saying he supported the 9/11 attacks.


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 12-06-2001).]

[wolfwill23]

You know what? I was wrong about this guy. I'm sure he's a decent fellow. He was just a bit mislead. Poor guy. Actually, he's the one who is the victim here, not the American troops whom he was fighting. This guy didn't mean any harm to America when he joined the biggest anti-American group in the world. This guy didn't mean America any harm when he rejoyced after the Cole bombing where 19 sailors, mothers and fathers, were killed. Like some of you have said, he just didn't know any better. Poor kid, victim of circumstance. Don't know why he was one of the last to surrender at the prison. Also don't know how people can say he had no idea that he was fighting America when he saw the two CIA men in the prison. Heck, he even witnessed the murder of one of them. But how was he supposed to know that they were American? Poor kid. Let's clean him up, bring him home in time to celebrate Christmas and get him started on some kind of social program right away. God bless America.

[TheU2]

Originally posted by wolfwill23:
You know what? I was wrong about this guy. I'm sure he's a decent fellow. He was just a bit mislead. Poor guy. Actually, he's the one who is the victim here, not the American troops whom he was fighting. This guy didn't mean any harm to America when he joined the biggest anti-American group in the world. This guy didn't mean America any harm when he rejoyced after the Cole bombing where 19 sailors, mothers and fathers, were killed. Like some of you have said, he just didn't know any better. Poor kid, victim of circumstance. Don't know why he was one of the last to surrender at the prison. Also don't know how people can say he had no idea that he was fighting America when he saw the two CIA men in the prison. Heck, he even witnessed the murder of one of them. But how was he supposed to know that they were American? Poor kid. Let's clean him up, bring him home in time to celebrate Christmas and get him started on some kind of social program right away. God bless America.

Give me a break.

CK

[DoctorGonzo]

While it's likely he never engaged in combat with US forces, he must have known after 2.5 months of fighting that the US was backing the Northern Alliance.

Yes, but I doubt he had accurate information regarding the situation, and I highly doubt he had any choice in the matter. He couldn't just pack up and say goodbye.

And the involvement of U.S forces has been very minimal. They are barely even there. Even if he wanted to, he wouldn't have had many chances to engage Americans. Most Taliban fighters have never come in contact with any. (Remember, it's largely a proxy war) Furthermore, there has been no evidence to suggest that he ever had any oppertunity to engage Americans. So, until some hard evidence is produced, he cannot be held accountable for fighting Americans.

Shortly after the bombing of the USS Cole, where 19 lives were taken, this piece of trash told his dad that he was happy it happened. He also said he supported the 9-11 attacks.

Emotional support does not equal participation. He had very little to do with Al-Queda in the sense of being an operative or offering support. His relationship with Al-Queda seems to be similar to that the one between a National Gaurdsmen in Vermont and the paramillitary wing of the CIA.

In fact, his background would make him someone to be distrusted by the Al-Queda hirearchy. It's actually quite amazing that he made it into the Taliban. With legions of Arab supporters in the region, the #1 target for CIA inflitration is not exactly eager to bring in some American. They don't really need fighters that badly, and the damage he could do were he an operative, would be immense.

Which is probably why they sent him to the one place on Earth where he could do virtually no damage.

Kashmir.

The conflict there is something that the CIA studies but does not participate in, and has little interest in inflitrating. Even if they did, they have no agenda to persue. They are not particularly in favor of any one side in the conflict and even if Walker was an operative, he would not have any relevent information to report in the first place.

So, it is abundantly clear to me that he was diliberatley kept out of the loop, so to speak. Sent to where he couldn't do any damage while still proving useful to the Taliban.

I believe there is zero evidence to suggest he had any part in any terrorist operation and there is quite a bit to suggest he was not trusted enough to be given access to any information regarding such acts.

You know what? I was wrong about this guy. I'm sure he's a decent fellow. He was just a bit mislead. Poor guy. Actually, he's the one who is the victim here, not the American troops whom he was fighting. This guy didn't mean any harm to America when he joined the biggest anti-American group in the world. This guy didn't mean America any harm when he rejoyced after the Cole bombing where 19 sailors, mothers and fathers, were killed. Like some of you have said, he just didn't know any better.

As I said above, his emotional support of the attack does not indicate any involvement.

Don't know why he was one of the last to surrender at the prison

Probably because he was in the basement after having walked 100 miles on foot through the desert. He couldn't even get up onto his feet, much less run out waving a white flag.

Also don't know how people can say he had no idea that he was fighting America when he saw the two CIA men in the prison

Given his conditon, I'm surprised he even realized they were Americans. He was immobile, severly ill and semi-lucid at best.

Heck, he even witnessed the murder of one of them.

I doubt that. He was in the basement, unable to move. The fact he was at the prison when the CIA agent was killed does not indicate he had any involvement, or even saw it happen. It would have been impossible for him to participate in it anyway.

But how was he supposed to know that they were American?

He could barely remember his own name, at the time.

Poor kid. Let's clean him up, bring him home in time to celebrate Christmas and get him started on some kind of social program right away.

God bless America.

God Bless Humanity

[Matthew_Page2000]

This is not all that complicated. We know the following about John Walker:

1.) Walker is a self-motivated young man who converted from Catholicism to Islam at the age of 16 and who visited Yemen at the age of 18 to learn Arabic. He was not captured and "brainwashed."

2.) After visiting Yemen he became radicalized and indicated to his father that he supported the terrorist bombing of the U.S.S. Cole that resulted in the murder of 19 Americans. His father admits that he was appalled by his sons viewpoint and that he tried to argue with him but that his son was unwavering. He thought the attack was a good thing.

3.) The young man in question then lied to his father about visiting Pakistan and instead joined Al-Qaida forces in Afghanistan. Reports indicate that he was involved in terrorist attacks in Kashmir. Al-Quaida has repeatedly made known their goal to kill Westerners, particularly Americans. Walker himself has admitted that he saw Osama Bin-Laden several times.

4.) Walker admitted to Newsweek that he supported the September 11 attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon.

So, to summarize: Walker is a radical Islamic terrorist at war with the United States. Did he actually fire his AK-47 at an American soldier? I have no idea but it's irrelevant. He's a member of an avowed terrorist group dedicated to the murder of Americans and other Westerners and I wouldn't allow him back in our country. If he insisted upon coming back I would try him for treason.

MAP

[Anthony]

I think people like that are just pathetic excuses of a human being, and should be thrown into court for treason, for that is exactly what it is.

In Britain we have LOADS of these incidents where ridiculous, malevolent and UNGRATEFUL pieces of excrement voluntarily go and fight against the country who's limited resources THEY consumed, who's welfare state THEY used, who's economy THEY drained, all so they can go and betray it. As much as I despise the members of Al-Qaeda who are from the Middle East, I absolutely abhor those who were born here in Europe and still have the audacity and humanity (or lack of) to go and help to destroy the very world they lived in and used.

Traitors, and they should be treated as such. Put them all in jail and leave them there to rot.

Ant.

[DoctorGonzo]

3.) The young man in question then lied to his father about visiting Pakistan and instead joined Al-Qaida forces in Afghanistan. Reports indicate that he was involved in terrorist attacks in Kashmir. Al-Quaida has repeatedly made known their goal to kill Westerners, particularly Americans. Walker himself has admitted that he saw Osama Bin-Laden several times.

Walker joined the Taliban not Al-Queda.

And a hell of a lot of people have seen Osama Bin Laden. Does that make them all terrorists, too? Should we arrest reporters who have interviewed him?

Walker did not actively seek out Osama Bin Laden, he saw Bin Laden as he passed through the Taliban training camps.

So, to summarize: Walker is a radical Islamic terrorist at war with the United States. Did he actually fire his AK-47 at an American soldier? I have no idea but it's irrelevant.

Irrelevant because it is easier to convict people of crimes based on the thoughts in their heads than by their actions.

[TheU2]

Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
This is not all that complicated.

Its pretty complicated. Direct quote via CNN from Kenneth Starr, former US independent counsel, "I think it's going to be an ultimate kind of judgment call, frankly, at the highest levels of government. I think it could go either way."

Looks like he doesn't think its not going to be as cut and dry as you think.

CK

[no disk]

this was in the ny post this morning.


TRAGIC CIA HERO GRILLED THE RAT

By JOHN LEHMANN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



December 7, 2001 -- American Taliban fighter John Walker refused to cooperate with CIA man Johnny "Mike" Spann in an extraordinary face-to-face confrontation only hours before the agent was killed in a bloody prison riot staged by the turncoat and his cohorts.
Walker, 20, remained sullen and speechless as Spann and another agent, known only as "Dave," asked him to help provide information during an interrogation at the Afghan fort where he was being held prisoner.

Even when Walker was told he could die if he didn't cooperate, he kept his mouth shut.

The meeting, filmed by an Afghan cameraman and reported by Newsweek magazine yesterday, is further evidence that Walker - who could be tried for treason - was strongly devoted to the Taliban army and knew he was fighting directly against Americans.

Spann, a 32-year-old husband and father who grew up in Alabama, was killed when the 3,000 Taliban prisoners - including Walker - revolted, throwing hand grenades and seizing weapons from Northern Alliance guards.

Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld said Walker was involved in the uprising and was found after the riot carrying an AK-47.

After attending a memorial service for Spann yesterday in his hometown of Winfield, Ala., a close family friend, Tracy Estes, told The Post it was impossible to understand how an American citizen could "trade sides."

"I just can't understand [Walker's] logic or work out what he was thinking," Estes said.

Spann came face to face with Walker on a blanket spread over the bare earth floor of the northern Afghan fortress of Qalai Janghi on the morning of Sunday, Nov. 25.

Walker, known inside the prison by his Muslim name, Abdul Hamid, was among prisoners questioned before the uprising. A U.S. official said the CIA was not aware that Walker, whose family lives in California, was an American.

His elbows tied behind his back, Walker was pushed down on the blanket, his head bowed, his long hair obscuring his face.

Squatting at the edge of the blanket, with a Kalashnikov rifle strapped across his back, Spann attempted to break Walker out of his trance by clicking his fingers twice in front of his face.

Spann said, "Who brought you here? Wake up! Who brought you here? How did you get here? Hello?"

After failing to get a response, Spann and Dave spoke to each other within earshot of Walker.

Dave said, "The problem is, he's got to decide if he wants to live or die. If he wants to die, he's going to die here.

"Or he's going to f- - -ing spend the rest of his short f- - -ing life in prison. It's his decision, man.

"We can only help the guys who want to talk to us. We can only get the Red Cross to help so many guys."

Spann later tried a softer approach, telling Walker, "They [the Sept. 11 hijackers] killed other Muslims. There were several hundred other Muslims killed in the bombing. Are you going to talk to us?"

After Walker still refused to respond, the film shows, Spann stood with his hands on his hips and Dave kicked the dust in frustration, according to Newsweek.

When he was being photographed, Walker refused to pull his hair back.

An Afghan guard held the prisoner's head in place and pulled his hair back as Spann took a picture before Walker was escorted back to other captives sitting on the floor of the fort.

Hours later, the fort exploded in violence - and Spann's body was recovered by British and American soldiers.

Walker's San Francisco lawyer, Jim Brosnahan, declined to comment yesterday.

Walker, who converted to Islam as a 16-year-old high-school student four years ago, is being held by U.S. Special Forces. The Justice Department is assessing what charges will be brought against him.

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by wolfwill23:
Get him some help? This is a kid who was toting an AK-47 and using it against American servicemen and women.

The constutition is very clear about this one. Something to the effect of if you bare arms against your country in a time of war, you are committing treason.

Try him in court or don't let him back into the country. I have no mercy for someone who chose to fight against Americans in this war.

Yes.. Well said. I wholeheartedly agree.. This kid is a terrorist, who has already slit his own throat by coupling that with the crime of treason. He should be tried over there and killed.. NOT let back into the country.. that'd be like letting bin laden into our country jsut cuz he had a temporary brian lapse... This kid's no different...

[Lemonite]

Originally posted by speedracer:
Dr. Gonzo,

While it's likely he never engaged in combat with US forces, he must have known after 2.5 months of fighting that the US was backing the Northern Alliance.

Yah.. How can anyone tell me, just out of the nature of his situation that he fired...NO shots.. This is a US war, and any shots fired, would be an entrance into teh war.. and I'm sure if we asked his buddy next to him in urdu, he'd say he fired a few shots...