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Old 05-13-2003, 05:19 AM   #1
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Al-Qaeda is back?

Quote:
'Al-Qaeda' attacks rock Saudi capital
Medical staff say at least 50 people were injured

from BBC News

Ten Americans and many other foreigners are believed to have been killed in a series of suicide bomb attacks on foreign housing compounds and businesses in the Saudi capital Riyadh, US officials say.

An Australian man, a Saudi national and a Lebanese citizen were also killed and at least 50 others were injured when the bombers drove cars filled with explosives at four targets around the city.

US Secretary of State Colin Powell, who arrived in Saudi Arabia hours after the attacks, said: "Right now it seems as if we have lost 10 Americans killed ... Many other lives were lost from many other nationalities."

He said the "cowardly" operation bore all the signs of Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda network.

"Terrorism strikes everywhere and everyone," he said.

"It is a threat to the civilised world."

He was greeted on arrival by Saudi Foreign Minister Prince Saud al-Faisal, who promised to co-operate with the US in its war on terror.

The French news agency AFP said three suicide bombers were also reported killed in the blasts.

Saudi Arabia is the birthplace of al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Laden and 15 of the 19 men suspected of carrying out the 11 September suicide attacks on New York and Washington.

Gunfire

Mr Powell arrived in Riyadh on Tuesday to hold talks with Crown Prince Abdullah bin Abdul-Aziz as part of a Middle East tour.

He hopes to gain Arab support in Riyadh for a new US-backed peace plan to end the Palestinian and Israeli unrest.

US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Robert Jordan said he had visited more than 40 American injured in the city hospitals.

Mr Jordan said one of the compounds attacked was a scene of flames and smoke where at least 12 homes and 16 apartment complexes were destroyed.

"There is great concern over the possible injury and loss of life in that particular compound," he said.

The second compound attacked was a several-storey residential apartment building for single men working as defence contractors which was "very seriously damaged by an explosion that made it all the way in to the building", he said.

The third compound was less damaged as the bomb exploded at the gate rather than inside the premises.

In one of the attacks, gunmen driving a black Chevrolet Caprice sedan are reported to have shot their way into the residential compound.

Security officials said the car, packed with explosives, crashed through the gates of the compound and was then detonated.

The force of the explosion shook nearby buildings and windows, witnesses said.

Security warnings

Workers from a US firm which helps trains the Saudi National Guard were reported to among those injured.

The Associated Press news agency said fourth explosion was aimed at the headquarters of the Saudi Maintenance Company, also known as Siyanco.

American residents have been advised by the US embassy in Riyadh to stay at home and "away from windows and doors".

"Saudi security forces are responding to the attacks and have been asked to take the appropriate measures to protect all other sites in the kingdom where Americans reside," an embassy statement said.

On 1 May the US State Department warned American citizens against non-essential travel to Saudi Arabia, citing intelligence that terrorist groups may be in the "final phases" of planning attacks against the American community there.

In recent months there have been a number of attacks on Western targets in the conservative Arab kingdom, including a string of shooting attacks against employees of western defence contractors in Saudi Arabia.
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Old 05-13-2003, 09:08 AM   #2
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they just dont' realize it...but everytime they do this...they just make the US prescence in the mid east stronger.



we're just goign to invade another country now because of crap like this.
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Old 05-13-2003, 09:34 AM   #3
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Arun V: they need the US military to justify their violence as an enemy like Bush needs the terrorism to justify his wars.

So it's a win/win situation for alquaida and the warhawks in the US government.

The big loosers are the people
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Old 05-13-2003, 11:10 AM   #4
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Damn terrorists.
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Old 05-13-2003, 12:58 PM   #5
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The Saudi authorities have put the death toll at 29 - including seven Americans and nine suspected attackers and 194 injured
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Old 05-13-2003, 03:54 PM   #6
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No offense Klaus, but Al Qaeda needs nothing to justify their violence in their own minds, other than their own twisted views.

I knew they would strike again, and I fear it's only a matter of time before they do it again on US soil.

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Old 05-13-2003, 04:00 PM   #7
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MrsSpringsteen:

you are right, but they have to "sell" their violence to the public to get support
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Old 05-13-2003, 06:12 PM   #8
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Old 05-13-2003, 07:03 PM   #9
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Klaus,

"Arun V: they need the US military to justify their violence as an enemy like Bush needs the terrorism to justify his wars."

"So it's a win/win situation for alquaida and the warhawks in the US government."

"The big loosers are the people"

I can't stand this rubbish that people on 9/11 died because of US foreign policy. Whats worse is the suggestion that if we just ran across the ocean and hid in a corner, these problems would just go away. Thats absurd. Anyone looking at the appeasement of 1930s knows this.

What would you suggests the US government do to prevent a a terrorist bombing like the one in Oklahoma City?

Terrorism is the weapon of sick, dumb, twisted, evil people. It accomplishes nothing.

The American people will never let where and when they decide to use its military overseas be dictated by any terrorist anywhere. The vast majority of the American people have supported the USA's foreign military presence and wars abroad of the past 20 years. The American people are not about to give in to terrorism or European wishes of American military isolationism.

By the way, Bush is NOT the equilivant of Al Qauda.
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Old 05-13-2003, 08:03 PM   #10
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Chirac called up Bush shortly after the 9/11 attack to express French outrage over the attack and opposition to terrorism in general. European countries, including Germany and Russia, and Moslem countries, and all countries joined in condemning terror and terrorists. I remember watching an interview with Queen Noor of Jordan shortly after the attack. She was pretty freaked over the whole thing. We can have our side disagreements but when push comes to shove we all condemn terrorists and terrorism. Except for the terrorists, of course. They're crud.
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Old 05-13-2003, 10:02 PM   #11
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.......plus Palestinian people who were cheering the 9/11 attacks when they learned what happened.
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Old 05-14-2003, 05:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Klaus,

1. I can't stand this rubbish that people on 9/11 died because of US foreign policy. Whats worse is the suggestion that if we just ran across the ocean and hid in a corner, these problems would just go away. Thats absurd. Anyone looking at the appeasement of 1930s knows this.

2. What would you suggests the US government do to prevent a a terrorist bombing like the one in Oklahoma City?

3. Terrorism is the weapon of sick, dumb, twisted, evil people. It accomplishes nothing.
1. Appeasement of 1930s was a shame but now we are dealing not with a country or a regime but with a phenomenon, an ideology.

2. To listen to opinion of the others to start with...

3. Well, you talk of those who execute acts of terrorism. Indeed, most of them are fanatics. But there are people behind them who plan, direct, finance... They are intelligent and smart, they know how to achieve their goals. It is much more difficult to fight them because they are not visible, they do not represent a country or a religion. They live among us. Until the current US administration realises that and starts dealing with REAL threats rather than with ostensible ones, there will be no progress in the war on terrorism...
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:07 PM   #13
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Klaus,

The US government always listens to other opinions. Just because the US government and people listen to militia(anti-government rednecks) and the French or Germans, does not mean the government and people of the USA have to adopt their course of action on certain issues or their type of government in the "militia" case.

Some of the most experienced and tallented people on terrorism and its root causes work for the FBI, CIA and US State Department. They are hard at work every day on strategies and solutions to catch current terrorists and prevent others.

I'm sorry, but adopting French or German policies on Iraq has nothing to do with and will not stop terrorism around the world. Not engaging in military or police operations to catch terrorist will not make anyone safer from terror.

In the past 18 months, the USA has rolled up the terrorist network in Afghanistan, changed the government there, and planted the seeds for democracy and economic development. No other country or power in history has achieved as much as the USA has in Afganistan in the past 18 months.

The USA, UK, and Australians did in 3 weeks what peaceful UN inspectors failed to in 12 years in Iraq. They successfully disarmed Saddam's regime by destroying it. Now a process of economic development and democratic development can take place for the people. Something that used to be only wild dream for most people in Iraq.

These efforts and others have destroyed terrorist infrastructure and terrorist themselves. Al Quada since 2001 has been a terrible failure. There has not been one single attack on the USA. Al Quada members were killed and captured by the hundreds and thousands at their base in Afghanstan that they stupidly thought would be impenetrable to US military forces. My friend observed the destruction of their bases and was involved with the dentention and movement of several of the prisoners.

Al Quada had plans to start movement in Muslim cells in Bosnia and Kosovo. Both of those failed. The rate of terrorism worldwide is less after 9/11 than before.

A strong and effective terrorist organization should be able to strike multiple times every month at will nearly everywhere. Many of the attacks since 9/11 attributed to Al Quada may not have even been Al Quada. Many are refering to the attack in Saudi Arabia as a splinter group from Al Quada.
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Old 05-14-2003, 04:08 PM   #14
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Alexrus,

I am sorry I refered to you as being "Klaus".
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Old 05-14-2003, 10:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
No offense Klaus, but Al Qaeda needs nothing to justify their violence in their own minds, other than their own twisted views.

I knew they would strike again, and I fear it's only a matter of time before they do it again on US soil.



the thing is...I really dont' see al qaeda accomplishing anything by this...except for making us invade another afghanistan/iraq.



All they've really accomplished is the imposition of Western systems on two countries....do they want to make it 3?
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Old 05-15-2003, 07:22 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
In the past 18 months, the USA has rolled up the terrorist network in Afghanistan, changed the government there, and planted the seeds for democracy and economic development. No other country or power in history has achieved as much as the USA has in Afganistan in the past 18 months.
Excuse me, but that's one of the dumbest things I have heard. If we did so much in Afghanistan, why was there a bombing in Saudi Arabia? Weren't we supposed to be getting the people that did this? No, this bombing was allowed to happen because we removed our troops from Afghanistan before we found bin Laden, even though that is was what we were SUPPOSED to do, according to Bush. People died because Bush had to finish his daddy's war in Iraq instead of completing the task at hand in Afghanistan. How can you not see this Sting?

And in case you think I'm the only one, check out part of this editorial from the Times of London, which I believe sums my idea up.

"The Saudi bombs are being attributed to the al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden. If so, we might reasonably ask for an inquiry into why two colossally expensive and destructive wars were fought by the West yet left unscathed the architect of all this woe. [Prime Minister Tony] Blair explicitly declared that bin Laden's capture was the purpose of the invasion of Afghanistan. He then alleged a "clear" link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda as one of the pillars justifying the invasion of Iraq. I can see that the people of Afghanistan and Iraq may feel more free, for the moment, but that was not the point. The point is lying smothered in blood and rubble in Riyadh."
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:42 PM   #17
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Sharky,

"Excuse me, but that's one of the dumbest things I have heard."

Really? Well lets see what you had to say.


"If we did so much in Afghanistan, why was there a bombing in Saudi Arabia?"

Because people in Saudi Arabia who had never been to Afghanistan or recieved support from anyone in Afghanistan, secured the means to blow up a building in their own country. If someone at interference.com went to the store tomorrow, bought the natural supplies to build a conventional bomb and then blew up a building downtown, would you link the bombing to Bin Ladin and Afghanistan?


"Weren't we supposed to be getting the people that did this? No, this bombing was allowed to happen because we removed our troops from Afghanistan before we found bin Laden, even though that is was what we were SUPPOSED to do, according to Bush.

I have a friend, A Captain in the US Marine Corp that spent 6 months all over Afghanistan in 2002. NO, US Troops were not pulled out of Afghanistan, and operations to hunt for terrorist continue there. While you were enjoying your life in a comfortable western environment, my friend was experiencing freezing weather in the mountains of Afghanistan, setting up base camps for special operations forces and working closely with FBI and CIA personal in the detention and interrigation of Al Quada prisoners.


"People died because Bush had to finish his daddy's war in Iraq instead of completing the task at hand in Afghanistan. How can you not see this Sting?"

How can you believe something that is so unsubstantiated and unobjective, and clearly false? Its political tabloid trash. US forces currently risking their lives in Afghanistan as I type this might throw up if they read that. But it appears from your posting that your completely ignorant of the fact that there are US, British, and German troops on the ground in Afghanistan right now conducting the very operations you say are not happening.


""The Saudi bombs are being attributed to the al Qaeda network of Osama bin Laden. If so, we might reasonably ask for an inquiry into why two colossally expensive and destructive wars were fought by the West yet left unscathed the architect of all this woe. [Prime Minister Tony] Blair explicitly declared that bin Laden's capture was the purpose of the invasion of Afghanistan. He then alleged a "clear" link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda as one of the pillars justifying the invasion of Iraq. I can see that the people of Afghanistan and Iraq may feel more free, for the moment, but that was not the point. The point is lying smothered in blood and rubble in Riyadh.""

You know, I can promise you that 50 years from now, some place or some where in the world, a house will be broken into, a car will be stolen, and yes a bomb may go off somewhere created by a single individual. It obvious that if someone at interference.com went and bombed the Times Office in London, that people there would automatically link it to Al Quada and there for to Bin Ladin, then to Afghanistan, and the "military failure there", whish was caused by Bush war in Iraq(which was a wild success which they are obviously unhappy about). The goal of the times is not objectivity, but trying to find someway in justifing their criticism of the war in Iraq after it went so well. So naturally, two events that are essentially not related, get linked by them. It would be nice if some people could be professional enough to accept the fact that they were wrong about something instead of digging their hole deeper on the issue with wild unlinkable theory's.

Winning the war on terror does not mean that there will not be anymore terrorist incidents. Just like winning the war on crime does not mean there will not be anymore acts of crime. What were talking about here is the terror "RATE" or Crime "RATE". The Terror "rate" this year is the lowest it has been in 3 decades.

If Al Qauda was an effective terror organization, it would be able to launch multiple attacks every month anywhere in the world. What is important is the disruption of the organizations activities, not the capture of a single individual. Bin Ladin himself may be buried under a hundred feet of rock and rubble and not found for another 5,000 years. Of course people will claim he is still alive and he might very well be alive. But what has he been able to do since 9/11 except perhaps make unsubstantiated claims that he was the sole sponser of the few tiny terrorist incidents that have happened since 9/11.
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Old 05-15-2003, 02:59 PM   #18
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Arun V:

that's exactly my point i think that al-quaida needs the US military in the Arabic region.
A enemy who can't be seen isn't as valuable as someone in the country who can be "deamonized".

Maybe the fundamentalists can be the long-term winners in the Iraq war.
Maybe the US military made what al-qaida couldn't do: removing sadam to get a cleric government.

Sting:
i'm sorry that i don't had the time to reply. I'm affraid you have to wait a few more weeks. I'm in a hurry organizing a 2 weeks trip (begining in approx. 7 days) to LA and Kansas City.
I promise you not to ignore your statements and answer every point.

see you in a few weeks FYM'ers

Klaus
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Old 05-15-2003, 03:15 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by STING2
Klaus,

1. Some of the most experienced and tallented people on terrorism and its root causes work for the FBI, CIA and US State Department. They are hard at work every day on strategies and solutions to catch current terrorists and prevent others.



2. In the past 18 months, the USA has rolled up the terrorist network in Afghanistan, changed the government there, and planted the seeds for democracy and economic development. No other country or power in history has achieved as much as the USA has in Afganistan in the past 18 months.

The USA, UK, and Australians did in 3 weeks what peaceful UN inspectors failed to in 12 years in Iraq. They successfully disarmed Saddam's regime by destroying it. Now a process of economic development and democratic development can take place for the people. Something that used to be only wild dream for most people in Iraq.

These efforts and others have destroyed terrorist infrastructure and terrorist themselves. Al Quada since 2001 has been a terrible failure. There has not been one single attack on the USA. Al Quada members were killed and captured by the hundreds and thousands at their base in Afghanstan that they stupidly thought would be impenetrable to US military forces. My friend observed the destruction of their bases and was involved with the dentention and movement of several of the prisoners.

3. A strong and effective terrorist organization should be able to strike multiple times every month at will nearly everywhere. Many of the attacks since 9/11 attributed to Al Quada may not have even been Al Quada. Many are refering to the attack in Saudi Arabia as a splinter group from Al Quada.
1. I hope they do work but US administration seems to be too much carried away with the Iraqi issue now...

2. Your optimism is stunning. If you want to continue walking blind...it's up to you. International forces in Afganistan now are able to control ONLY Kabul and some outskirts....

3. Well, my dear, you can only GUESS what an effective and strong organization SHOULD, MAY, WANTS to do and when, where and how often it MAY WANT to strike
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Old 05-16-2003, 06:38 AM   #20
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Saudi Analyst have this to say about the attacks:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3023913.stm
"The attack really shows that the Americans were just an excuse -scapegoats," Mohammad al-Khereiji, a political analyst at the Saudi Arab News, told BBC News Online.

"The people behind these attacks, whether al-Qaeda or anyone else, are clearly seeking political power in Saudi Arabia and are playing the religious terrorism card."

There is no question in my mind that al-Qaeda has very strong sympathisers in the Saudi interior ministry. The very people who are meant to be cracking down on al-Qaeda-related terrorism are actually sympathetic to it

Frank Gardner
BBC security correspondent

Mohammad al-Khereiji says that most Saudis are shocked and angry at the attacks.

"If the Saudi authorities were to lead a big security clampdown against the attackers, this would be very popular here."
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