ACLU

[Justin24]

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003957.htm

Here is an example of the ACLU not suing the school district on seperation of church and state.

 

[BVS]

http://michellemalkin.com/archives/003957.htm

Here is an example of the ACLU not suing the school district on seperation of church and state.

When I was in high school we learned about the Jewish, Christian, and Muslim relgion never once were any of these religions endorsed.

Learning about and living are two entirely different things.

 

[Justin24]

This was not History class or world religon. To have them recite prayers from the Koran. speak like muslims and use such words as "Pray's be allah"?? You don't find that a violation of Church and state?

 

[BVS]

This was not History class or world religon. To have them recite prayers from the Koran. speak like muslims and use such words as "Pray's be allah"?? You don't find that a violation of Church and state?

During the history course at Excelsior School in the fall of 2001, the teacher, using an instructional guide, told the students they would adopt roles as Muslims for three weeks to help them learn what Muslims believe.

Yes, it was history class. And many history courses use role playing to teach. I see nothing wrong.

 

[Justin24]

What if students object then they get a failing grade. What if it was about the jewish faith, the pagan faith, christian faith etc.. and there were muslims in the class wouldn't they object?

 

[yolland]

Having glanced over the full curriculum (.pdf) as provided by Malkin, I don't see anything in it that constitutes an endorsement of Islam. Frankly, if my kids' school were using it, my biggest objection would be that it seems likely to leave children with the incorrect impression that Islam is all about traditional desert-dwelling tribal Arabs, as the core project involves traveling with a caravan, possibly being "attacked by a rival tribe" or "confronted by a dust storm" and wearing kaffiyeh and chadors. I would have the same reservation with a curriculum about Judaism that asked kids to dress like Hasidim and pretend to live on a kibbutz, or a curriculum concerning varieties of Christianity that asked them to imagine themselves as Huguenots or Puritans being persecuted by Catholics, etc.

I also don't see any indication from the curriculum that it in fact involved praying, as it says:

Owing to the sensitive nature of imitating another's form of prayer, your group will not be asked to directly simulate this activity. However, you should show understanding of the meaning of several religious sayings that ilustrate Islamic beliefs. Therefore, each member should analyze at least one verse from The Qur'an and memorize five proverbs listed on the POPULAR PROVERBS handout.

The suggestion, which so far as I can tell is no more than a suggestion, that they consider incorporating common Arabic expressions like "in shah Allah" ("God willing") into their role-playing, doesn't strike me as endorsement either; Americans of all faiths casually say "Thank God!" or "God, I hope not!", etc. all the time, and I haven't heard of a school barring students from doing so. Anyhow, I can't see where they were required to say it.

 

[BVS]

What if students object then they get a failing grade. What if it was about the jewish faith, the pagan faith, christian faith etc.. and there were muslims in the class wouldn't they object?

Why? Why would objecting someone's grade be any different than any other subject?

Like I said, I learned about all religions, my Muslim friend and his twin brother never objected, they learned right there next to me. What does this have to do with the ACLU?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Look here's the thing with the ACLU it's going to defend certain people, groups, etc that we may not like. That's just the price of freedom.

It's also the price of bureaucracy when we can't put people behind bars for entering the country illegally. There are people who spend years waiting in line to enter this country, and my wife was one of them. It took almost a decade for the rest of her siblings to come into this country. They live in a bilingual home, with an American stepfather. The rest of them communicate with each other around the house in Tagalong, which is similar to Spanish. It's no wonder that after all that time waiting in line, they struggled in school because they didn't spend any of their childhood communicating in English.

This is one classic example of how the ACLU is screwing up America, although for some reason, aiding lawbreakers is not considered an extreme example.

So if the ACLU is free to redefine our culture, by legal and illegal means, I presume that The Alliance Defense Fund - their rival in smaller numbers - has every right to tamper with every law they don't like.

 

[Macfistowannabe]

This was not History class or world religon. To have them recite prayers from the Koran. speak like muslims and use such words as "Pray's be allah"?? You don't find that a violation of Church and state?

That is a DIRECT violation. Popping out the prayer rug and turning the public schools into mosques - how does this not infringe on the rights of an atheist?

A Christian?
A Jew?
A Buddhist?
A Hindu?

 

[Macfistowannabe]

Yes, it was history class. And many history courses use role playing to teach. I see nothing wrong.

You can TEACH about the five pillars and other tenants of Islam without having students pray to a god they don't believe in, can't you?

 

[BVS]

It's also the price of bureaucracy when we can't put people behind bars for entering the country illegally. There are people who spend years waiting in line to enter this country, and my wife was one of them. It took almost a decade for the rest of her siblings to come into this country. They live in a bilingual home, with an American stepfather. The rest of them communicate with each other around the house in Tagalong, which is similar to Spanish. It's no wonder that after all that time waiting in line, they struggled in school because they didn't spend any of their childhood communicating in English.

This is one classic example of how the ACLU is screwing up America, although for some reason, aiding lawbreakers is not considered an extreme example.

So if the ACLU is free to redefine our culture, by legal and illegal means, I presume that The Alliance Defense Fund - their rival in smaller numbers - has every right to tamper with every law they don't like.

This issue really has very little to nothing to do with ACLU, ACLU is not the one keeping the borders open, they've just made sure they have some rights once they cross. If we locked them away, like you suggest, what's to keep them from being locked up for life?

Blame politicians in general conservative and liberal for the border problems not the ACLU.

 

[BVS]

That is a DIRECT violation. Popping out the prayer rug and turning the public schools into mosques - how does this not infringe on the rights of an atheist?

A Christian?
A Jew?
A Buddhist?
A Hindu?

Does the reciting of a prayer really make it a prayer. You of all people should know it doesn't, you accuse people of not being true Christians all the time in here.

 

[BVS]

After reading some of your posts about Muslims, I can think of quite a few posters who could have benefitted from a high school that taught like this.

 

[Irvine511]

After reading some of your posts about Muslims, I can think of quite a few posters who could have benefitted from a high school that taught like this.

this has been one of the worst FYM weeks I can remember.

an apology to any Muslim lurkers out there: not everyone on FYM is like this.

 

[Justin24]

What would happen if let's just say as an example the countries such as iran, Saudi Arabia and others started a world wide conquest to convert the masses, would you still hold the same feelings?

 

[BVS]

What would happen if let's just say as an example the countries such as iran, Saudi Arabia and others started a world wide conquest to convert the masses, would you still hold the same feelings?

Why, such extremes? Really, what's the point? Basically you're asking, what if another Crusades?

Well what if Christians did it? What if Jews did it?

You keep equating a minority percentage to the religion as a whole. You can't do that. Quit speaking in 'what ifs' and speak in fact.

 

[Justin24]

Well the minority can grow into a majority, just look at whats happening in Europe.

 

[BVS]

Well the minority can grow into a majority, just look at whats happening in Europe.

Education goes a long way...

 

[Justin24]

Are you an expert in Islamic studies?

 

[BVS]

Are you an expert in Islamic studies?

By no means...

Being educated and being an expert are two entirely different things...

 

[verte76]

This thread needs an expert in Islamic studies.

 

[Justin24]

Ok getting back on topic. From that article I posted, It said the cop had no right to ask for ID. As far as I know when you get pulled over the police always ask for ID, Proof of registration and insurance. So these men have no case.

 

[BVS]

Ok getting back on topic. From that article I posted, It said the cop had no right to ask for ID. As far as I know when you get pulled over the police always ask for ID, Proof of registration and insurance. So these men have no case.

From my understanding it depends on state. Some states you can only ask for the ID of the driver unless there was alcohol etc in the car, but these men weren't driving.

 

[Justin24]

Rhode Island state trooper who apprehended 14 illegal immigrants during a traffic stop, charging "racial profiling" and insisting the officer had no right to ask for ID.

The Rhode Island affiliate of the ACLU filed the case after the driver and several passengers alleged Trooper Thomas Chabot overstepped his authority during the July 11 traffic stop by taking immigration enforcement into his own hands, the Providence Journal reported.

However, asking for identification during traffic stops is a department procedure, and when the passengers could not provide valid ID, Chabot contacted officials with the Department of Homeland Security's Immigration and Customs Enforcement division.

 

[BVS]

I understand that, but is it procedure to ID passengers? To me that really doesn't make sense if it is. What if they are 15 and have no ID?

 

[Justin24]

Good Point. Answer me this yes or no. Isn't it the job of the president and the rest of the government to protect the citizens of the United States??

 

[BVS]

Yes, but what does this have to do with the ACLU?

 

[nathan1977]

From my experience growing up in RI, it was common practice to get IDs for all the passengers in the vehicle.

 

[Justin24]

Yes, but what does this have to do with the ACLU?

So then why does the ACLU sue the government when it tries to enforce the law of the land and protect it's citizens, such as border controll and arressting and depoting illegal immigrants?

 

[BVS]

I've never been carded as a passenger. And I've been in a many of pulled over cars across the country.