About the attack...

Miss MacPhisto · 09-11-2001, 09:14 PM

Barbara Olson was on the plane that crashed into the pentagon. She called her husband - twice - while it was being hijacked and told him what was happeneing. She mentioned them being armed with knives and cardboard cutters...she did not mention guns apparently.
Now its still too early to tell, but it seems to me that they HAD to have been armed with a HELL of a lot more than that. If not, wouldnt you have jumped them or at least tried to bring them down, if thats all they were wielding???
Being stabbed is preferable to being blown into bits...You might survive a stabbing, if not, at least the others woulda made it.

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

SicilianGoddess · 09-11-2001, 11:41 PM

Hmm thats interesting. Cuz I was wondering how the hell they got guns on the planes... I mean maybe there's some way to sneak them on but if they didnt have guns why wouldnt the pilots put up a fight?

------------------
Religious Nuts, Political Fanatics In The Stew
Happily Not Like Me And You
That's where I lost you....

Sicy's Website

pub crawler · 09-12-2001, 12:57 AM

There was also reportedly a call from one of the flight attendants on one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center, and she/he told of the hijackers having knives as well.

By all appearances this was a very sophisticated operation. These guys knew exactly what they were doing, and probably flew the planes themselves.

If 3 or 4 guys took over a flight cabin and were stabbing flight attendents (as was reported by the attendant who made the call from the plane that hit the WTC), I would think it would create an atmosphere of fear that might make people reluctant to take any chances fighting back.

On the other hand, it has been reported that the pilot(s) of the plane that crashed in Philadelphia may have fought back. It's suspected this may be true because of the long period of time the plane was in the air and because the plane (apparently) crashed short of its target, whatever that target may have been.

In any case, I saw a retired airline pilot and another expert on the news today saying there's no way in hell any airline pilot would fly a plane full of people into a skyscraper, even if they had a gun to their head. I absolutely believe that to be true.

bonoman · 09-12-2001, 01:50 AM

You must consider this. 3-5 men with knives have just taken over a plane and killed or injured the piloet(s). They say they have bombs and will kill everyone. The passangers have no idea these madmen are going to crash the plane on purpose. They think that they will demand things and get them.

This is the most tragic thing to ever happen in my life...

------------------
Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice."

"we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

foray · 09-12-2001, 04:28 AM

Apparently under flight regulations, passengers are allowed knives/blades up to 4 inches long to allow for Swiss army knives and such. I think Stanley knives (or cardboard cutters as you call them) are formidable enough weapons don't you think? Anyway, the most effective method was to strike terror into the passengers' hearts, and it worked.

Also, as a matter of interest, some important guy on tv said that it is not at all difficult to fly a 747/737 if one is an amateur. And even aiming the planes at a building is not hard, too.

The entire operation was amazingly low-fi. In a world of technological advances and nations racing for hi-fi gears, I think people have forgotten the more fatal weapon of pure human intelligence.

This is awful, awful. Anyone here thinks we're gonna have a World War?

foray

brettig · 09-12-2001, 04:41 AM

Quote:

The entire operation was amazingly low-fi. In a world of technological advances and nations racing for hi-fi gears, I think people have forgotten the more fatal weapon of pure human intelligence.

I heard John McCain say exactly that...

[This message has been edited by brettig (edited 09-12-2001).]

Miss MacPhisto · 09-12-2001, 05:32 PM

Oh God, Foray...No...Please no,I hope not! really!

Anyway, I've also heard that the pilots were herded to the back of the plane as well.Weird...I just dont get it. Too shocked to comprehend anything i guess.
------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

[This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 09-12-2001).]

Judah · 09-12-2001, 07:49 PM

Hmm...all this talk of a world war. Who would one have a world war with...with regard to fighting terrorism? These operations aren't done by armies...it's a sophisticated network of at most a few thousand people around the world. Even if the US thinks it should attack states harbouring terrorists, the list of countries couldn't mount much of a conventional battle/war. Countries like Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, maybe Lebanon...their allies are each other, no other "super" power (like China...though China and Pakistan are on friendly terms, so they can oppose India together). Yeah, Pakistan's got nukes, but it's still on a semi-friendly basis with the States. I don't think Pakistan and US will be going toe-to-toe.

Yeah, we're in for a new, fear-based reality, now that US has been hit so massively. And things will change for us all. US government is painting this as a first act of war. It IS an act of war...but the war has been going on for many years, on many geo-political fronts from the cold war days (i.e. US/CIA training Bin Laden to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan). This is just the latest, albeit the ugliest, episode of it.

There will be escalation, but i have a hard time developing a "world war" scenario out of this. Maybe someone can elaborate.

Miss MacPhisto · 09-14-2001, 05:45 PM

Ok, I heard that the passengers apparently DID know that the terrorists were gonna crash the plane, and that they DID know they were all going to die. Given that, i ask the question again: Why oh why didnt they fight back?!

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

80sU2isBest · 09-14-2001, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
Ok, I heard that the passengers apparently DID know that the terrorists were gonna crash the plane, and that they DID know they were all going to die. Given that, i ask the question again: Why oh why didnt they fight back?!

On the Philadelphia crashed plane, some guys did fight back, and it is believed that is why the plane came short of it target.

MSU2mike · 09-15-2001, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Miss MacPhisto:
Ok, I heard that the passengers apparently DID know that the terrorists were gonna crash the plane, and that they DID know they were all going to die. Given that, i ask the question again: Why oh why didnt they fight back?!

<sigh>

Only the passengers on the plane that went down in PA knew ahead of time that they were going to be killed. Those that were flown into the WTC and Pentagon were unquestionably under the impression that this was a standard hijacking; they would be redirected and held for money (or whatever), then released. A passenger on the plane in PA learned on a call with his wife what had happened on the other planes. Remember, it didn't go down until some time after the first three...around 10:20. His wife would have seen all this unfolding by then.

09-11-2001, 09:14 PM	#1
Miss MacPhisto Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Planet Pleba Posts: 1,957 Local Time: 07:37 AM	About the attack... Barbara Olson was on the plane that crashed into the pentagon. She called her husband - twice - while it was being hijacked and told him what was happeneing. She mentioned them being armed with knives and cardboard cutters...she did not mention guns apparently. Now its still too early to tell, but it seems to me that they HAD to have been armed with a HELL of a lot more than that. If not, wouldnt you have jumped them or at least tried to bring them down, if thats all they were wielding??? Being stabbed is preferable to being blown into bits...You might survive a stabbing, if not, at least the others woulda made it. ------------------ Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you... My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME... "Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert __________________

09-11-2001, 11:41 PM	#2
SicilianGoddess Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Smiley Land ? Posts: 4,462 Local Time: 08:37 AM	Hmm thats interesting. Cuz I was wondering how the hell they got guns on the planes... I mean maybe there's some way to sneak them on but if they didnt have guns why wouldnt the pilots put up a fight? ------------------ Religious Nuts, Political Fanatics In The Stew Happily Not Like Me And You That's where I lost you.... Sicy's Website __________________

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09-12-2001, 12:57 AM	#3
pub crawler New Yorker Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Los Angeles, CA USA Posts: 2,551 Local Time: 08:37 AM	There was also reportedly a call from one of the flight attendants on one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center, and she/he told of the hijackers having knives as well. By all appearances this was a very sophisticated operation. These guys knew exactly what they were doing, and probably flew the planes themselves. If 3 or 4 guys took over a flight cabin and were stabbing flight attendents (as was reported by the attendant who made the call from the plane that hit the WTC), I would think it would create an atmosphere of fear that might make people reluctant to take any chances fighting back. On the other hand, it has been reported that the pilot(s) of the plane that crashed in Philadelphia may have fought back. It's suspected this may be true because of the long period of time the plane was in the air and because the plane (apparently) crashed short of its target, whatever that target may have been. In any case, I saw a retired airline pilot and another expert on the news today saying there's no way in hell any airline pilot would fly a plane full of people into a skyscraper, even if they had a gun to their head. I absolutely believe that to be true.

09-12-2001, 01:50 AM	#4
bonoman Refugee Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Edmonton, Canada- Charlestown, Ireland Posts: 1,398 Local Time: 08:37 AM	You must consider this. 3-5 men with knives have just taken over a plane and killed or injured the piloet(s). They say they have bombs and will kill everyone. The passangers have no idea these madmen are going to crash the plane on purpose. They think that they will demand things and get them. This is the most tragic thing to ever happen in my life... ------------------ Running to Stand Still-"you gotta cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice." "we're not burning out we're burning up...we're the loudest folk band in the world!"-Bono

09-12-2001, 04:28 AM	#5
foray Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: full of sound and fury Posts: 3,386 Local Time: 04:37 AM	Apparently under flight regulations, passengers are allowed knives/blades up to 4 inches long to allow for Swiss army knives and such. I think Stanley knives (or cardboard cutters as you call them) are formidable enough weapons don't you think? Anyway, the most effective method was to strike terror into the passengers' hearts, and it worked. Also, as a matter of interest, some important guy on tv said that it is not at all difficult to fly a 747/737 if one is an amateur. And even aiming the planes at a building is not hard, too. The entire operation was amazingly low-fi. In a world of technological advances and nations racing for hi-fi gears, I think people have forgotten the more fatal weapon of pure human intelligence. This is awful, awful. Anyone here thinks we're gonna have a World War? foray

09-12-2001, 05:32 PM	#7
Miss MacPhisto Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Planet Pleba Posts: 1,957 Local Time: 07:37 AM	Oh God, Foray...No...Please no,I hope not! really! Anyway, I've also heard that the pilots were herded to the back of the plane as well.Weird...I just dont get it. Too shocked to comprehend anything i guess. ------------------ Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you... My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME... "Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert [This message has been edited by Miss MacPhisto (edited 09-12-2001).]

09-12-2001, 07:49 PM	#8
Judah War Child Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada Posts: 760 Local Time: 03:37 PM	Hmm...all this talk of a world war. Who would one have a world war with...with regard to fighting terrorism? These operations aren't done by armies...it's a sophisticated network of at most a few thousand people around the world. Even if the US thinks it should attack states harbouring terrorists, the list of countries couldn't mount much of a conventional battle/war. Countries like Libya, Iraq, Iran, Syria, Pakistan, maybe Lebanon...their allies are each other, no other "super" power (like China...though China and Pakistan are on friendly terms, so they can oppose India together). Yeah, Pakistan's got nukes, but it's still on a semi-friendly basis with the States. I don't think Pakistan and US will be going toe-to-toe. Yeah, we're in for a new, fear-based reality, now that US has been hit so massively. And things will change for us all. US government is painting this as a first act of war. It IS an act of war...but the war has been going on for many years, on many geo-political fronts from the cold war days (i.e. US/CIA training Bin Laden to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan). This is just the latest, albeit the ugliest, episode of it. There will be escalation, but i have a hard time developing a "world war" scenario out of this. Maybe someone can elaborate.

09-14-2001, 05:45 PM	#9
Miss MacPhisto Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Planet Pleba Posts: 1,957 Local Time: 07:37 AM	Ok, I heard that the passengers apparently DID know that the terrorists were gonna crash the plane, and that they DID know they were all going to die. Given that, i ask the question again: Why oh why didnt they fight back?! ------------------ Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you... My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME... "Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert