abortions

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

Lilly

Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB
Joined
Oct 27, 2001
Messages
8,523
Location
back and to the left
I am pro-choice. Where I myself would NEVER have an abortion, I don't feel like I can make everybody's decision for them. I am pretty opposed to it though. I was just wondering what everybody else thought about this issue.

------------------
Go lightly down your darkened way.
 
Oh no, here we go again!
wink.gif
I remember this from months ago when I was here under another name - all kinds of new abortion threads popping up all over the place. Lots of heated debate but surprisingly all arguments were civil.

Anyway - for the record, I am like you. I am pro-choice, mainly because should I find myself needing an abortion, it is my choice and mine alone. Whatever price is to be paid would be brought on by myself, alone. Though I wouldn't get an abortion unless I were raped or my life were in danger, another woman getting an abortion is not my decision to make. I am a little tired to get into it fully right now so I digress for the time being.
 
I dont agree with careless teens getting pregnant and then just getting abortions like it's no big deal. But if you are raped I think that would be one of the only legitimate reasons to get an abortion.

Personally, I am no way no how ready for babies nor do I have any desire to have any. But if I somehow got pregnant there's no way would I have an abortion for those reasons alone.

------------------
These days, days, days run away like horses over the hill...


Sicy's Website

Photo Albums
 
Originally posted by Lilly:
I am pro-choice. Where I myself would NEVER have an abortion, I don't feel like I can make everybody's decision for them. I am pretty opposed to it though. I was just wondering what everybody else thought about this issue.

i agree. and oh yeah, i agree with sg's comment too about the rape thing and stuff...if you're 17 and "oops! i knew we shoulda used a condom!" then that's your own damn fault. but if you have no control over it, that's another thing...

------------------
have a nice day! ;)
U2: 62%
dd: 37%

"well my instincts is right, time to walk from the fire, leave the burning behind me, take a walk to the water..."
-------
"are you serious? do you really care what peanut butter i prefer? are you in peanut butter marketing or something?"
john nude!
 
hi,
how about a male perspective? i am pro choice and am not ready to be a father either. so i try to talk about that before i bang any of the nice girls i meet.
smile.gif


i disagree with KhanadaRhodes about the whole oops we should have used a condom thing. that certainly is no reason to bring a child into the world. if you cannot be responsible for your actions, how can you be responsible for a child who would depend completely on you? (i'm just saying you as a term, not pointing any fingers, trying to keep a civil arguement here)
smile.gif


but if you love the person you are with and it happens, it is a decision that I think should be shared with the partners.
 
I'm not sure that we get me REALLY started on this, so I'll just say what you all know I would say - I believe wholeheartedly that purposeful abortion is wrong.
 
I'm Pro-Life except in cases of rape and when the mother's life is seriously at risk do to complications of carrying a baby.

I happen to date a Pro-Choice (although she wavers) girl who believes that its a women's right to choose. At times we would contemplate the big what if question. She says the ultimate decision was hers regarding whether to keep the baby or not. I said, "Bullshit!" You will never kill my baby!



------------------
Kennedy
 
Hmmmm.... this is such a touchy subject.

I myself am adamantly pro-life when it comes to abortion. Mainly because I'm a nurse in a newborn ICU and I take care of babies that are born as much as 17 weeks early and survive. They're such little fighters - you'd be amazed. I dont believe in the whole "it's not a baby yet" argument because it is, and I've seen them alive and breathing at this "fetal" stage. Tiny little things that grow up into big people
smile.gif
I'm going to stop here before I go off an a MAJOR tangent!


------------------
God has got his phone off the hook, babe...Would he even pick up if he could?
 
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes:
if you're 17 and "oops! i knew we shoulda used a condom!" then that's your own damn fault.

people make mistakes. having the child will only compound problems for parents, relatives and most of all(in all likelihood) the child.
if the abortion is terminable in one instance it should be in the other. i don't believe it is right to have a different evaluation of 'life' when the whole incident is attributable to some kids messin' around.

------------------
but everybody wanna live
don't nobody really wanna die
you feelin' me, right?
fred durst
 
Originally posted by kobayashi:
people make mistakes. having the child will only compound problems for parents, relatives and most of all(in all likelihood) the child.
if the abortion is terminable in one instance it should be in the other. i don't believe it is right to have a different evaluation of 'life' when the whole incident is attributable to some kids messin' around.


I don't like this option. True, the lack of responsibility isn't a good sign for parenting, but you'd be surprised how much having a child will straighten a person out. (I know that sounds harsh...but it's the best wording I can think of).

And no one's discussed the option of giving the child up for adoption. Carry it to term, and if by that point the mother (and father) aren't ready to welcome a child into their lives, then they can give the child up for adoption and brighten the lives of couples who have been struggling to have a child for years or maybe aren't capable of bearing children. And I'd bet that the process of carrying the baby to term would definitely be an excellent lesson in responsibility for the blood parents (and who knows, they might feel ready to accept the child into their lives).
 
Having had this discussion before, I'm concerned that it will indeed get ugly, so I'll get my 2 eurocents in now and also comment on an argument that will probably come up. I know that at least one of us believes that abortion should not even be an option after a rape, and let me just reply to that that I vehemently disagree. It shouldn't be the automatic solution, but the option should be there. It's not so much the "everyone has the right to live" argument, since that immediately begins the argument about when life starts, and since I'm for the pill and the morning-after-pill, I know I would be on shaky ground. But a child conceived in hatred and violence... I don't believe in forcing a woman to carry that around, not only for 9 months, but for the rest of her life, even if it's given up for adoption.

Having said that, I'm against abortion on principle. I believe that the option should be available to anyone who needs it, but I think it should be strongly discouraged, and I have recently discovered that I do not agree with the policy that allows pregnant teenage girls to have an abortion without her parents being informed (although I don't believe they have to give their consent). The way it is now, at least where I'm from, it's far too easy an option. I think that every case of teenage pregnancy should be evaluated individually, and the girl should talk several times to a psychologist or other qualified professional who would be able to assess her level of maturity etc.

As for grown women, it's on their own head, but I still think abortion should be strongly discouraged for them, and again, I feel that it would be a good idea to make counselling a part of the "package".

As for women wanting an abortion for the second time (due to negligence)... well, there's nothing you can do about it, but if I thought it was feasible, I'd say let them carry the baby to term and give it up for adoption.
 
Originally posted by Klodomir:
As for grown women, it's on their own head, but I still think abortion should be strongly discouraged for them, and again, I feel that it would be a good idea to make counselling a part of the "package".

I'm curious, how can one discourage mature women to have an abortion? I'm pretty sure a psychologist saying "it's such a bad thing to do" wouldn't do the trick.

Furthermore, I think a lot of people underestimate how difficult it is for women to carry a baby around for 9 months, and then give it up for adoption. During the pregnancy (sp??), the mother develops a band with the child, which would make it very difficult to give the child up.
 
Time is the other enemy when making this choice though. like the moral dilemma isnt enough, the woman only has such a small amount of time to decide.

And I'd say re: Dr teeth, that adoption is a harder choice than abortion. In some ways anyway.
 
Originally posted by DrTeeth:
I'm curious, how can one discourage mature women to have an abortion? I'm pretty sure a psychologist saying "it's such a bad thing to do" wouldn't do the trick.
That's not what I had in mind. Anyone can say that. I just think it would be easier for a woman to make an informed decision if she could talk to someone not directly involved.
 
I'm of the belief that abortion is no different than murder and should be treated as such.

------------------
<A HREF="http://"http://www.iusb.edu/~preimers/monkey.jpg"" TARGET=_blank>It's a monkey!</A>
 
I personally don't think I would be able to go through one if I were to have an unexpected pregnancy, but who am I to tell other women what to do with their bodies? It's every induvidual woman's choice, and I respect that.

------------------
I know your garden's full
But is there sweetness at all?
 
Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel:
I personally don't think I would be able to go through one if I were to have an unexpected pregnancy, but who am I to tell other women what to do with their bodies? It's every induvidual woman's choice, and I respect that.
So, if I had a siamese twin, and I got tired of having to be connected to him, it's my right to kill him, right? Why not - it's my body.

The idea that laws should protect the person's "right to do with their own body as they please" is preposterous.

In the USA, it is illegal to take certain drugs. In most states, prostitution is illegal.

Sorry, this is one of my main issues. I just can't stay out of it.
 
I just thank God each day of my life that I/we live in a society that not only allows, but gives us the RIGHT to express our opinions FREELY!

I am a Christian and happen to be Pro-Choice. Even though I am greatly opposed to abortion, it doesn't give me the right to make ANY decision for anyone else.

I don't think being Pro-Choice automatically makes you Pro-Abortion. I really don't think that ANYBODY is Pro-Abortion. This is about empowering people to exercise their right to RESPONSIBLY choose what's best for themselves.




------------------
-------------------------------------------

"I have a brother, when I'm a brother in need. I spend my whole time running. He spends his running after me."
 
Originally posted by A|catura:
I am a Christian and happen to be Pro-Choice. Even though I am greatly opposed to abortion, it doesn't give me the right to make ANY decision for anyone else.
May I ask why you are personally "greatly opposed" to it? On what grounds?


[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 11-29-2001).]
 
Originally posted by A|catura:
I am a Christian and happen to be Pro-Choice. Even though I am greatly opposed to abortion, it doesn't give me the right to make ANY decision for anyone else.

I don't think being Pro-Choice automatically makes you Pro-Abortion. I really don't think that ANYBODY is Pro-Abortion. This is about empowering people to exercise their right to RESPONSIBLY choose what's best for themselves.


I fully agree with you.

I don't think we can impart our own moral superiority onto other people. There are people who don't find abortion abominable. There are people who have absolutely no religious affiliation, and don't believe a child is being "murdered."

Each person is responsible for the choices he or she makes. The rest of us, while we can offer guidance, cannot dictate to them what should/must be done.
 
Originally posted by She ls Raging:
Hmmmm.... this is such a touchy subject.

I myself am adamantly pro-life when it comes to abortion. Mainly because I'm a nurse in a newborn ICU and I take care of babies that are born as much as 17 weeks early and survive. They're such little fighters - you'd be amazed. I dont believe in the whole "it's not a baby yet" argument because it is, and I've seen them alive and breathing at this "fetal" stage. Tiny little things that grow up into big people
smile.gif
I'm going to stop here before I go off an a MAJOR tangent!



Oh Raging...I have always admired the people that work in NICU..I sometimes work with the ones that survive the NICU, usually becoming global developmentally delayed children.

Huge thumbs up to the men and women in these wards.
 
Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel:
I personally don't think I would be able to go through one if I were to have an unexpected pregnancy, but who am I to tell other women what to do with their bodies? It's every induvidual woman's choice, and I respect that.
So, if I had a siamese twin, and I got tired of having to be connected to him, it's my right to kill him, right? Why not - it's my body.

The idea that laws should protect the person's "right to do with their own body as they please" is preposterous.

In the USA, it is illegal to take certain drugs. In most states, prostitution is illegal.

Sorry, this is one of my main issues. I just can't stay out of it.

You're welcome to your opinion, 80's, but I am also, and that's what I believe. The way you make it seem is ridiculous...case in point, the siamese twin example. I'm not justifying "murder", I'm merely saying that as human beings we should have the right to do what we will with our own bodies. By that I mean tattooing, piercing, and yes, even aborting a baby (for whatever reason, I'm not saying every abortion has a good reason behind it...as a matter of fact, I believe that every woman who has ever had one never comes to the decision very easily, and has to live with that for the rest of her life.)

Just stating my opinion, once again.

----------------
Love's a bully, pushing and shoving
In the belly of a woman
 
Originally posted by LarryMullen's_POPAngel:
I believe. The way you make it seem is ridiculous...case in point, the siamese twin example. I'm not justifying "murder", I'm merely saying that as human beings we should have the right to do what we will with our own bodies. I'm not saying every abortion has a good reason behind it...as a matter of fact, I believe that every woman who has ever had one never comes to the decision very easily, and has to live with that for the rest of her life.) Just stating my opinion, once again.
Well, maybe I didn't get my point across clearly, because if I did, you might not think it was ridiculous. I'll explain it in more detail.

The argument for legalization of abortion is that a woman has rights over her own body.Surely, people would agree that a woman's rights end where it negative affects another life. Well, let's look at a side by said comparison of Siamese twins and a pregnant woman.

Siamese twins are basically two people sharing one body. A preganant woman is much the same. A large portion of the medical community believe that life begins at conception; therefore, the baby and the mother are two lives sharing the same body.

And that's where my argument about killing your siamese twin comes into play. If you are tired of your twin, don't you have the right to kill him/her - after all it is your body. For people who believe that a life in the womb is just as much a life as someone outside the womb, the same standard applies. The phrase "it is my body" does not apply, because of the before-mentioned rule; that your right to do whatever you want with your body ends when it intrudes on my rights. And if a child still in the womb is indeed a viable life, the mother's rights end when those rights intrude on the right of the pre-born baby to survive.
 
80's, you have to admnit its a clinical example. Accurate only in the 2 bodies comparison, the similarities are slim.

Realistically you are never likely to understand pregnancy, and don't get me wrong, Im not using the "you're a man, what would you know?" argument, after all your points are valid and your opinion is your right.
What I am saying however is you do not and never could know the process for want of a better term, a woman goes through when making that choice. You say what you do based on your intelligence and religion. The fear of pregnancy alone, the thought of childbirth, the external factors that influence a decision like this, you can only see from the outside.
Imagine a being a woman, pregnant, alone with no support, faced with the prospect of raising a child alone, with no money, no material foundations to raise a child. No father for the baby, an inability to see yourself as strong enough to do such a job, being filled with so much soul destroying self doubt that you cannot see clearly. Can you imagine the fear? Can you begin to understand it? Many men face this I know. But they do not nurture this baby for 9 months, they do not make the choice to terminate a life. Of course it's wrong, and anyone here would agree with you. Until experiencing this, most say they can or never will do it, but the reality of it is something completely different. By aborting a life doesn't make it any more right or wrong, nothing makes the choice any easier. If I was that woman 80's, would you look me right in the eye and judge? Would you feel with all your knowledge, really equipped to make an informed decision, one that is beyond the opinion you showed, and one I appreciate and respect?
 
Originally posted by Angela Harlem:
Realistically you are never likely to understand pregnancy, and don't get me wrong, Im not using the "you're a man, what would you know?" argument, after all your points are valid and your opinion is your right.
What I am saying however is you do not and never could know the process for want of a better term, a woman goes through when making that choice. You say what you do based on your intelligence and religion. The fear of pregnancy alone, the thought of childbirth, the external factors that influence a decision like this, you can only see from the outside.
Imagine a being a woman, pregnant, alone with no support, faced with the prospect of raising a child alone, with no money, no material foundations to raise a child. No father for the baby, an inability to see yourself as strong enough to do such a job, being filled with so much soul destroying self doubt that you cannot see clearly. Can you imagine the fear? Can you begin to understand it? Many men face this I know. But they do not nurture this baby for 9 months, they do not make the choice to terminate a life. Of course it's wrong, and anyone here would agree with you. Until experiencing this, most say they can or never will do it, but the reality of it is something completely different. By aborting a life doesn't make it any more right or wrong, nothing makes the choice any easier. If I was that woman 80's, would you look me right in the eye and judge? Would you feel with all your knowledge, really equipped to make an informed decision, one that is beyond the opinion you showed, and one I appreciate and respect?
Excuse me, Angela, but where did I judge women who had made that decision? I didn't. I said abortion is wrong, which it is. Or, is it wrong in this world to believe that something is wrong? If you were in that situation and asked if you should have an abortion, my answer would not change...I would say no. I would give you my support, I would help you out and care for you, but I would not support your decision to have an abortion, if that's what you chose. And I don't really care if you respect that or not, quite frankly.
And by the way, you say i couldn't understand it. Of course a man doesn't know the experience the way the woman does, but the man in the situation isn't exactly having the time of his life, either. I can understand it as well as any man. You see, I've been there. 11 years ago, I dated a girl who got pregnant. I had no job. She was a waitress. Times were tough. I cried, I prayed, I felt for her and the baby. She gave birth and 8 hours later, the boy died. So I had a son for 8 hours. So don't tell me I don't understand.



[This message has been edited by 80sU2isBest (edited 11-30-2001).]
 
Back
Top Bottom