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Old 09-09-2001, 01:23 PM   #101
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80s, be aware that Jehovah's Witnesses carry beliefs that are widely different from mainstream Christianity, including the belief that Jesus did not die on a cross. I figured this out after writing what I wrote, which does make what karaoke said a lot of sense from that perspective.

I will not get into a discussion regarding a particular denomination in this thread, as I do not wish to pass judgment on a particular sect here, and if you wish to learn more about their specific beliefs, there are plenty of websites--both positive and negative to JW's--that can help you out if you so wish.


Confused by thoughts, we experience duality in life. Unencumbered by ideas, the enlightened see the one reality. - Hui-neng (638-713)

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Old 09-09-2001, 10:14 PM   #102
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Originally posted by melon:
80s, be aware that Jehovah's Witnesses carry beliefs that are widely different from mainstream Christianity, including the belief that Jesus did not die on a cross. I figured this out after writing what I wrote, which does make what karaoke said a lot of sense from that perspective.
Thanks for cluing me in, Melon. I didn't know karaoke was a JW. I also didn't know that JWs don't believe Jesus died on a cross, even though that's one of the 3 religions (besides my own, of course) that I spent the most time studying (Islam and Mormonism were the others.) I guess we can learn something new each day, eh?
Oh well, that was the first time that I had ever heard anyone claim that the Bible doesn't mention the word "cross".

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Old 09-12-2001, 05:41 PM   #103
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Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:
Matt 27:32
Matt 27:40 ("...If thou be the Son of God, come down from the cross...")
John 19:17,25
1 Cor. 1:17, 18
Gal 6:14
Phil 2:8
Phil 3:18
Heb 12:2
The Greek word rendered "cross" in many modern Bible versions ("torture stake" in NW) is stauros'. In classical Greek, this word meant merely an upright stake, or pale. Later it also came to be used for an execution stake having a crosspiece. The Imperial Bible-Dictionary acknowledges this, saying: "The Greek word for cross, [stauros'], properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling [fencing in] a piece of ground. . . . Even amongst the Romans the crux (from which our cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole."-Edited by P. Fairbairn (London, 1874), Vol. I, p. 376.
Was that the case in connection with the execution of God's Son? It is noteworthy that the Bible also uses the word xy'lon to identify the device used. A Greek-English Lexicon, by Liddell and Scott, defines this as meaning: "Wood cut and ready for use, firewood, timber, etc. . . . piece of wood, log, beam, post . . . cudgel, club . . . stake on which criminals were impaled . . . of live wood, tree." It also says "in NT, of the cross," and cites Acts 5:30 and <G<>G>Ac <G<>G>10:39 as examples. (Oxford, 1968, pp. 1191, 1192) However, in those verses KJ, RS, JB, and Dy translate xy'lon as "tree." (Compare this rendering with Galatians 3:13; Deuteronomy 21:22, 23.)
The book The Non-Christian Cross, by J. D. Parsons (London, 1896), says: "There is not a single sentence in any of the numerous writings forming the New Testament, which, in the original Greek, bears even indirect evidence to the effect that the stauros used in the case of Jesus was other than an ordinary stauros; much less to the effect that it consisted, not of one piece of timber, but of two pieces nailed together in the form of a cross. . . . It is not a little misleading upon the part of our teachers to translate the word stauros as 'cross' when rendering the Greek documents of the Church into our native tongue, and to support that action by putting 'cross' in our lexicons as the meaning of stauros without carefully explaining that that was at any rate not the primary meaning of the word in the days of the Apostles, did not become its primary signification till long afterwards, and became so then, if at all, only because, despite the absence of corroborative evidence, it was for some reason or other assumed that the particular stauros upon which Jesus was executed had that particular shape."-Pp. 23, 24; see also The Companion Bible (London, 1885), Appendix No. 162.
Thus the weight of the evidence indicates that Jesus died on an upright stake and not on the traditional cross.**

**These words were taken from the book Reasoning from the Scriptures Published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, INC., International Bible Students Associaton, Brooklyn, New York, U.S.A.

When I found this out for myself, it made me feel that the Bible can be trusted when it is properly translated. Therefore, I have more trust in the Bible as a whole and I enjoy reading more now that I understand how people lived when it was written.

80su2isbest, I hope this helps clarify my blunt statement.
Thank you Melon for your previous words.

[This message has been edited by ]{arao]{e (edited 09-12-2001).]

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