a frustrated christian and liberal....

[popsadie]

Is anyone else frustrated by the way conservative and christian seem to go hand in hand in America? I am a fairly liberal Oklahoman who believes in Christ, and to be honest..i feel like an oddball. It seems like most liberal thinkers in the media do not profess christianity, and I am having difficulty making sense of how my political beliefs and spiritual beliefs can go together. I am a member of a few liberal organizations on campus, but I sometimes get tired of hearing my faith criticized in these circles. I love my church and my youth group friends, but I often stay out of political discussions to avoid conflict. I suppose this is part of the reason why I love this message board..this is really the only place I've seen where the two are allowed to come together. Does anyone else feel this way?

[This message has been edited by popsadie (edited 04-02-2002).]

[pax]

::nods enthusiastically::

There is an unfortunate stereotype in this country that in order to be a "true" Christian, one must espouse a certain set of political and social beliefs. I don't buy that at all, and certainly as a liberal I find that to be a problem. I don't really think that my beliefs are incompatible with Christianity, but some people would say that they are. But I say that if you believe in Jesus, you're a Christian, and there shouldn't be any other litmus test.

Do yourself a favor and pick up a book called Stealing Jesus by Bruce Bawer. A great read about how fundamentalism has become the public face of American Christianity.

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If you cannot live together in here, you cannot live together out there, let me tell ya. --Bono

You've got to cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice... --Bono

[zooropa16]

If it makes you feel any better, I'm a conservative Republican and don't believe in God. You think you're and oddball...

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Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Zooropa FTP

[hermes]

I'm a conservative, registered republican, and a Christian who is almost always at odds with people who are "conservative"(a code word for people who want their money left alone but want to interfere with the rest of your life), registered republicans(I still hold true that things can be changed from the inside) and Christians(individually, I've rarely had a problem with other Christians, but you get them together sometimes and it can be a disaster).

It's difficult cause I feel like everyone disagrees with me. Especially when the above labels are applied to me, then people seem to view the label rather then the person, which I think may be the problems of all of us posting in this thread.

It does always ensure an interesting discussion with people though, now that I think about it. I think the funniest position I�ve found myself in was when I was arguing with someone who called himself a conservative, a republican and a Christian. It was when dildos were outlawed in Alabama(I believe it was there, or at least a city there in). Here I am defending people�s rights to use dildos or do whatever they want if it doesn�t hurt anyone else, up to even drug use. I can�t imagine what that person�s impression of me was, but it ammuses me to no end when I think back on that discussion



[This message has been edited by hermes (edited 04-03-2002).]

[dream wanderer]

Yes yes...I'm in there with you!!!

I believe the fundamentalists have a right to do and think the way they do...just don't put me in there with them!!!!

dream wanderer

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by hermes:


I think the funniest position I�ve found myself in was when I was arguing with someone who called himself a conservative, a republican and a Christian. It was when dildos were outlawed in Alabama(I believe it was there, or at least a city there in).

Dildos outlawed?! I trust it is being broken with wild abandonment as it should be. I will add that to my list of stupid laws I can't wait to break.

[melon]

Yay...add me to that list. All I have to say is to hang in there, because, although we are not very vocal in our black-and-white world of liberal agnostics/atheists and conservative fundamentalist Christians, I think there are lots out there crossing the center just like us.

Melon

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"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy

[U2002revolution!]

Originally posted by zooropa16:
If it makes you feel any better, I'm a conservative Republican and don't believe in God. You think you're and oddball...

now that is funny! ....and weird.
can ya explain yerself a litte? it just doesn't compute in my brain/doesn't make sense .???
(cheers to ya tho )



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' I want to run
I want to hide
I want to tear down the walls
That hold me inside
I want to reach out
And touch the flame
Where the streets have no name. . .'
.:. U2: Rock's Unbreakable Heart!

Love is...cold steel/Fingers too numb to feel/Squeeze the handle/Blow out the candle
Love is blindness.../A little death/Without mourning/No call/And no warning...

[Thanks Coach P]

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by hermes:
It was when dildos were outlawed in Alabama(I believe it was there, or at least a city there in). Here I am defending people�s rights to use dildos or do whatever they want if it doesn�t hurt anyone else, up to even drug use.

But to our defense, we legalized inter-racial marriage a few years ago.

Although in my county, I cannot buy beer on Sundays. The county line is two miles away, and a convenience store is strategically placed thereon.

~U2Alabama

[U2live]

I am a Christian too, and what is on tv as the face of Christianity is not at all, many times, like what the Bible actually says, or what Jesus preached, and the other New Testament books. What was appalling, besides Billy Graham's remarks on those Nixon tapes, was his son saying after 9/11 that Jesus said war is ok and it's ok to go kill your enemy. Don't know what Bible it is he reads. That people actually listen to people like him and think that is the Word of God is scary. Same with Pat Robertson. I turned on his show on 9/11 looking for some Christian love, and what did I see and hear, that now infamous show where that Moral Majority bird brain blamed it on Lesbians, gays, and the moral decline of America. There are a lot of Hollywood people who are Christians, but keep it kind of quiet. Sharon Stone for one. If you saw her in her coat later at the Oscar parties, you saw the cross she had on it. Then Jane Fonda having become born again made Ted mad.

[This message has been edited by U2live (edited 04-04-2002).]

[RufusYoungblood]

What's with all the labels?

Do you have trouble defining yourselves without them?

[hermes]

the beer on sundays thing really aggrevates me. Here the only restriction is after 2am no alcohol selling, which I also don't understand.

[hermes]

how else do you define yourself without labels?

Lebels don't ever fit me, and I'm sure others are the same, but how else can you express the swirling vortex that is on the inside of a human?

[U2Bama]

There are still a few counties here in Alabama where you CANNOT buy ANY alcohol at ANY time. We call those "dry counties."

[bonofnattic]

Sharon Stone a born-again Christian? Man...I'd love to be HER pastor!! umm, I'd love to baptize HER!!....ummm, THAT'd get ME to church on TIME!!....uh, Talk about perfect attendence, I'd be in her Sunday School class EVERY SUNDAY!!!


I know, shame on me.

[zooropa16]

Originally posted by U2002revolution!:
now that is funny! ....and weird.
can ya explain yerself a litte? it just doesn't compute in my brain/doesn't make sense .???
(cheers to ya tho )

SURE!!!! I guess the easiest way to put is that I believe in many Christain Ideas, Strong family, morality etc., but do not believe in God. I do believe we are judged, not by God, but by ourselves. To be able to look yourself in the eye and know that you are a decent person is important. AS for thr Republican in me, I am Pro-life, with the exception of rape, incest and life of the mother, not on religious grounds, but on moral. Abortion is a form of murder, no matter how it may be spun, and should be illegal. Being sexually active carries the responsibilty of being responsible for your actions and the results of your actions. There are other reasons I can go into, but I think you kinda get the point.

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Don't let the bastards grind you down.

Zooropa FTP

[Anthony]

In defence of the Conservatives, I'm sure they would argue (indeed, since they would feel just as much) that there is a certain stereotype formulated in America about liberal Christians, and how they are perhaps dominating the face of Modern Christian Values; there is truth on both accusations, I feel.

I agree, popsadie, thatit must be annoying and to a greater extent, disheartening for such notions to be true and to an extent, irreconcilable, however, there are two sides to a story and the Conservative side would argue that the opposite is just as true.

I think there are stereotypes for lots if not most type of groups; there are bible-bashing Conservative Moralists, there are open-minded Conservative thinkers and there are close-minded liberals. It goes on and on, and there is only a considerable size that believes or buys into what you're saying, I say that most understand the need to compromise and to treat each and every issue separately, which is what I do. I'm a complete liberal when it comes to matters of Religion and SPirituality, and pretty left-wing politically, however, I do have some very Right Wing political views, and some right-wing notions worth applying to Social aspects. However, in Economics, I tend to be more left-wing also.

However, in overall, I consider myself a Slightly-More-to-Right-Wing Socialist.

Ant.

[erper]

im Libertarian and Christian

[new orleans]

Smug arrogant (Rather, Jennings, etc.) love to knock Christianity). The only world news I watch is Fox News. But occasinaly I'll watch Jennings or Rather to see what the enemy is doing. I usually can't stomach much of either one of them. I have noticed Peter Jennings having a ball ripping into the Catholic (I'm not Catholic) Church, he even did a one hour special on it. Now the Catholic Church is 100% wrong how they've handled these pedophile cases. But Jenning is really getting into crushing the Church. If Jenning or Rather would have spent that effort reporting on Clinton's rape accusation, womanizing, pardon's for cash, illegal FBI file tampering, the list goes on and on, I would have at least a little respect for them as jornalists. But no these stories were swept under the rug by these arrogant, left wing, Clinton enablers.

All should try to read the book BIAS by Bernard Goldberg.

[RufusYoungblood]

Originally posted by hermes:
how else do you define yourself without labels?

Lebels don't ever fit me, and I'm sure others are the same, but how else can you express the swirling vortex that is on the inside of a human?

The same way U2 did. By expressing yourself, and your opinions. No need for pigeon-holes.

I.E: - I do not believe in god. Please don't call me a ....???...ist. I don't need the label to express myself.

I don't believe in welfare. Don't give me a label. Agree/disagree with my opinion, sure, but the label is not necessary.

Labels are convenient, but misleading. I would hazard a guess that the majority of Republicans and Democrats do NOT support EVERY policy of their respective parties, but the label implies that they do.



[This message has been edited by RufusYoungblood (edited 04-05-2002).]