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Old 09-11-2002, 12:16 AM   #141
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look i really don't how to put what i'm thinking and feeling into words. but your wrong RAVENSTAR.
so why don't i come to the funeral of someone you love and downplay your grief?
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Old 09-11-2002, 02:22 AM   #142
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At best, she phrased it wrong. At worst, she may have been too analytical about it, without considering the human side of it all.
Well said.

Quote:
This isn't a funeral, needless to say, its a thread asking some questions.
I don't think I am wrong in saying that lots of Americans on this thread are in a 'funeral' state of mind now.

Quote:
I don't think there will be an apology (I think she would have done so already, if she had felt the need to). If this thread upsets you, please don't read it. Otherwise, let the discussion go on.
I'm not upset that I can't bear to read this thread. I didn't lose anyone dear to me in the incident. I can't even begin to imagine what those affected must feel, especially those reading this thread. Surely Ravenstar must have realized how upset she would have made them with her initial post. Even if the first post was a boo-boo, she didn't apologize for taking their emotions for a ride, so to speak. I think apologizing, at least for that, would be simple basic courtesy and consideration for your fellow man. I don't care how tedious FYM would be if everyone apologized for their posts. This isn't the same. Alas, harping on this more would further incline her not to apologize. I think lots of Americans would agree with my previous post.

(I'd suggest Ravenstar to stop thinking the whole world is against her, as is the natural thing for adolescents to do. The more she thinks that, the more hurt she may incur to very real people, if she doesn't learn this soon.)

I think I'm done here.

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Old 09-11-2002, 09:58 AM   #143
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Old 09-11-2002, 10:33 AM   #144
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i usually don't post in this forum but after reading this thread i feel compelled to.

ravenstar, you are entitled to your opinion. as a matter of fact, i can appreciate the point you were trying to make (or the point that other people say you were trying to make, since you couldn't articulate it yourself). however, your complete lack of tact and your disregard for other people's feelings is beyond distasteful, it's utterly appalling. i won't say more because i will just be repeating what other people have already said.

yes, today is a day of mouring here (here being NY) however i am going to take the opportunity to make sure i do something positive today and make sure that the people i care about know how i feel. too many people do not get that chance.


and, NotGeorgeLucas, i usually think your posts are funny, but, sorry, i don't get this one.
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Old 09-11-2002, 10:49 AM   #145
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Today!

It is now 10:18 on 9/11/02 and I found this thread about thirty minutes ago.

I had no intentions of reliving the horror of a year ago. I really thought that I had put it in the past. I did not even turn on the radio this morning because I did not want to listen to all the serevices and memorials going on.

Like everyone I was stunned and shocked by what I saw a year ago today. I found myself in a daze for a while, but I got on with life and was somewhat upset with all the bandwagon patriots who had flags flying all over thier cars, and the profiters on the side of the road selling Patriotism from a trunk. There was something wrong about it, but thier was also something very American about it.

Then I walked into the bank at 9 am this morning and was filling out a deposit slip and had to write the date. I looked what I had written and my knees went week: (9/11/02). I remeberd the confusion of that morning. I remeberd watching the unbelievable happen in front of my eyes as the first tower came down. I remember thinking that as a country we would never be the same. I remember knowing that this would consume us for a long while to come, and I watched on. I watched a country panic for a short period of time that morning, and for the first time many Americans felt vunerable and it scared the hell out of everyone.

It was the worst of days, and it was much more than any one person can express, and is damn sure more than you are willing to give it credit for Raven Star. It is a marker in our History and it is a day you will remember untill someone is throwing a party for your death.
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:29 PM   #146
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I knew someone from another forum (the Tori Amos forum) who was a flight attendant on UA #175. This is how 9/11 touched me personally. Although I had never met her, it was just like if it had been a member of this forum. Yet I am not offended by RavenStar's comments and need no apology from her because I sensed from her first post that she was referring to the media hype around it. Am I allowed to even say '9/11 media hype' without everyone getting upset and thinking I'm insensitive? I wept on 9/11 and the days that followed along with everyone else. I am moved by the personal stories of everyone touched directly (and indirectly) by it. I wept when I saw Alicia Titus' name scroll by during "Walk On" at the U2 show and also when I heard that Tori Amos was dedicating songs to her during her shows (that my two favorite artists were honoring this person was very moving). I can be both moved and saddened by the events and the enormous loss of life AND still see that there is media hype. Yes, let's remember the day. Let's even make it a national holiday, as some have suggested. And perhaps let's be extra sensitive to others around this time. I understand why many of you were upset by RavenStar's comments, but I personally was not.

Quote:
originally posted by RavenStar
I'd rather celebrate life than mourn death. My friends uncle was in the towers and we've decided to throw a party tomorrow. We are celebrating his life. If I died tomorrow, I would want people to throw a party and be happy. Not go to a silent funeral and be sad. I believe that life is more important than death and that a life is what should be in focus, not the death. Just my 2 cents. Feel free to continue bashing me as usual.
What did affect me very directly more deeply than 9/11 was the weeks that followed when my best friend of 25 years died suddenly, just 30 days after he was diagnosed with cancer. It was his wish that we have a party and not a funeral or a memorial service. So we honored his request and we danced and cried and partied like there was no tomorrow. It was absolutely fantastic. And then we mourned quietly in the months that followed. But for us there was great healing power in celebrating his life. But the celebration did not push the 'be happy' button that eliminated the pain. It was just one step in a long process.

Peace to everyone.
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Old 09-11-2002, 12:36 PM   #147
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Ravenstar makes one good point. Innocent people die each day - tragedies that barely register in our media.

9/11, however, goes well beyond loss of life. It is our collective witnessing of evil. It is the somber realization that people who don't know you, hate you for your beliefs, your culture, your freedoms. It is a sobering reminder that peace and security must be paid for.

May God give you all His peace today.
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Old 09-11-2002, 05:15 PM   #148
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I brought up the commercialised aspect of 9/11 in class today. I asked my class if thye remember the genocide in Rwanda. None of them had even heard of it. 800 000 people died in a course of 8 months and the world barely even blinked.
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Old 09-11-2002, 05:34 PM   #149
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damn did I miss all this today?

what the hell was I doing in the Lemonade Stand anyway...
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:21 PM   #150
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this was a very difficult thread to read.

i was deeply saddened by the events that happened that day. i just sat in front of the tv in utter dismay at the images that were being brodcast. i just turned on the tv (surprisingly on CNN, considering i never watch it) without previous knowledge of what was occuring. i watched the first building burn as the second plane hit and i was mortified to say the least. and as the buildings one by one crumble to the ground i was heartbroken at the unecessary loss of the life that occurred in those 2 towers ,4 planes, and the pentagon.

who would have believed that a group of people would devise this unbelievable scenario and almost completely be able to bring it to reality. that's suppose to be the stuff of hollywood action movies not of REAL life.

that being said....this situation also sadens me with respect to the discrimination that has happened toward islamic people among others who are now subjected to racial profiling and hatred for a situation that was brought about by extremists. we should be joining together to help stop this from happening again instead of alienating people.

also what was mentioned before about the commericalization of this tragedy. i can't believe that people are trying to make a profit from this horrible act of terroism. i can understand maybe some items (i NY shirts, WTC rememberance stuff) if the money was going to do some good....ie helping out the families affect by 9/11 or building a memorial at the WTC site...but not for pure money making purposes...that's just sickening!

i have watched quite a bit of the 9/11 ceremonies today and a lot of the news coverage that is going back and replaying the events of that tragic day. i applaud the tv stations that are broadcasting these ceremonies were families, friends, and others are coming togther again to greive the lost of those dear people. but i do believe that they should leave to rest the disturbing images of that day. it hasn't been so bad today with the replays and they have been posting warnings saying that there is upseting images in upcoming segments and not to watch if it will upset you, but even yesterday they were showing extreme close ups of the plains hitting the buildings (one in particular yesterday was the most horrifying video of the 2nd plane hitting the tower i have seen to this date). they should only be showing us pictures of the survivors and the heros (such as the NYPD, NYFD, EMT's, and port authority workers that did an amazing job that day) instead of those images of the planes hitting the buildings, the towers collapsing, and the most upsetting one for me personally is the people, , jumping or falling to their deaths.

i have not been affected personally (ie i do not know anyone killed or any of the rescuers) and i am not an americian citizen, but i know that if my husband, brother, mother, father, sister, etc died that day that is the LAST thing i would want to see day in and day out on tv and in newspapers and magzines.

now that i said how i feel about the events that happened today, this day last year and everyday in between, i would like to give my condolences to everyone who lost someone on that tragic day and to thank from the bottom of my heart everyone who worked to save people from the WTC, pentagon, and also the plane that went down in pennsylvania and for the recovery efforts of those poor people who could not be saved.

God Bless
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Old 09-11-2002, 06:33 PM   #151
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800 000 people died in a course of 8 months and the world barely even blinked.
A good, valid point. It is my belief that tragedies can not be 'overrated' as such, its that other tragedies are 'underrated'.

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Old 09-11-2002, 08:54 PM   #152
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A student who shared a house with me died in flight 93.
I won't be over this for awhile.
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Old 09-11-2002, 09:02 PM   #153
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I think Anthony and Sparky said what they did very well.

This thread does not need to be shut down, to those who've said that it should be. We should be able to voice our opinions, no matter how out there some of them may be. I think Raven's words were taken out of context and misintepreted, I think that's the problem here.

And now I have some personal thoughts:

I too absolutely hate it when people capitalize on a tragedy such as this one. I think it's sick when people do that.

And I did cry last year. I cried for the families and friends who lost loved ones. My sympathies are with everyone out there who's lost someone to this.

However, the excessive coverage-all that will do is get people all riled up and angry again. I understand that we will talk about it. But it's practically everywhere-it will just depress people and get them all pissed off again and everything.

And I am curious as to a couple of things:

First off, we center, like, 90% of our coverage on New York City. It's like we almost forget at times that there was a plane that crashed in Pennsylvania and in Washington, D.C.

And second, right after the attacks, I hear of these great stories of these firefighters helping people, and random strangers helping people, and donating blood and money and all that good stuff. And that's the America I like to see.

But then we turn right around, and this same country that had such kindness shown is the same country that has people harassing innocent Arabs and Muslims who live here because they may have "connections" to the terrorists. And then to make matters worse, we have people here who support Bush's decision to send people to Afghanistan and attack right back. I would think after the attacks that we as a country, since we know what it's like to lose innocent people who never did anything to those terrorists, would feel that retaliation would be a hypocritical move on our part.

But no, we go and inflict the same pain on a country that was inflicted on us. More innocent people are killed because we can't find a better way to solve our problem with Afghanistan. The innocent people over there weren't the ones who killed civilians here, so why do they have to be punished for the mistakes of a few? You know, just like when we asked why innocent people over here had to be punished because the terrorists didn't like the way we did things here. And it just angers me, and now I'm not only angry at the terrorists, I'm angry at our government for being so hypocritical and retaliating.

I know those of you who feel we should have gone over there are gonna strongly disagree with me, which is fine. I'm not hoping to sway anyone here with what I say. It's just the pacifist in me coming out. .

And now that I've vented that stuff, and getting back on topic here, Raven, I get what you were trying to say, it just got taken the wrong way by some people, that's all.

And I hope this thread is not closed. There's a lot of interesting discussion going on here, and I fully believe everyone should have the chance to air their opinions here.

So let us continue onward with this discussion (you know what I just thought would be a cool smiley to have on here? A peace symbol).

Angela
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Old 09-11-2002, 10:07 PM   #154
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
I brought up the commercialised aspect of 9/11 in class today. I asked my class if thye remember the genocide in Rwanda. None of them had even heard of it. 800 000 people died in a course of 8 months and the world barely even blinked.
I'd like to chip in once more to say that although I still stand by my previous comments about you taking ppl's emotions for a ride, I also think it is commendable that you are concerned with other incidents happening in far away nations. It's very good to know that you're setting an example for your mates in being globally aware. I think it was sharky who mentioned that Americans have never before been so ignorant about the world around them?

Based on what I've read from your other threads and comments in this forum, though, I've noticed a trend in your stance; so I'm compelled to ask, and this is an honest qn: In most matters, is your primary concern to muckrake other peoples' hypocrisies? My key words are 'primary concern'.

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Old 09-12-2002, 07:36 AM   #155
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Thats a good question foray. I wouldnt say it is my primary concern though. My primary concern would be me. I do like to point out people's hypocrises though. Especially those who say that arent hypocritical and that they hate hypocrites. but really, in a way we're all hypocritical at one point. I just try not to be and I'm sure others do but it can be hard sometimes. Most hypocrises can be avoided by puttin oneself into the other's shoes. It's hard, but possible.
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Old 09-12-2002, 09:42 AM   #156
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yes, "putting oneself in others shoes"
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Old 09-12-2002, 05:08 PM   #157
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I cant believe I forgot the "g" on putting.
*smakes self in head*
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Old 09-12-2002, 05:19 PM   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
My primary concern would be me.
This explains your original post......
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Old 09-13-2002, 07:01 AM   #159
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader


This explains your original post......
In what way?
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Old 09-16-2002, 01:15 PM   #160
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Sharky, are u shouting at me for watching it????

feels that way.....

however, blame media, not the watcher......................even though the watcher has a choice, she/he did not fit it into TV programmes schedule


besides I would say they did it to reconstruct close to what woulda happened and based on what was said..................

I told u, I found it sad....

they have reconstructed LOTS of disasters, including Zebrugga, Lockerbie, Liverpool stand where 90 fans were squashed to death........etc etc...all sad to watch but I dont think its wrong to put on.................

yes, I know this post sounds dumb............ Sharky.....


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