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Old 09-09-2002, 12:43 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally posted by KhanadaRhodes

i was once called subhuman by an aethist. who is also jewish. by saying he's jewish i mean his parents are jewish, and he celebrates jewish holidays with them. yet he called himself an aethist. i know this has nothing to do with the topic, but i was kinda hoping to confuse everyone.
Khanada... while I always appreciate confusion... and it sounds like this person was confused... I think your post did nothing for this thread :P It infers a bit of a stereotype... being that it didnt really matter what this guys heritage was, he was an ass to call u 'subhuman'. Please rethink your 'confusing' posts before you post It's as bad as....
(example)
I once had an old Chinese man walk up to me at an outdoor mall/plaza... said to me "you're the anti-christ, you're the anti-christ, you jew-ish arent you, you the anti-christ".

My point... the guy was a WHACK JOB, it was irrelevant that he was Chinese, and my brief use of emphasing his poor use of the english language was as well.

I'm not trying to point you out... just trying to make a point in general that people on this forum (and elsewhere) should try to avoid steretypes, intentional or not.

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Old 09-09-2002, 12:47 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
Pax, it sounds like you're taking sides. Is that part of a mod's job?

I just ask because it sounds like your claiming that this thread is somewhat better than others, mostly due to the fact that it's supporting the most popular opinion of the people who responded.

Threads that have little or no conflicting debate are in my opinion boring and in need of overhaul . That's just my opinion.

But seriously, is a mod supposed to take sides on moral, ethical, and political issues? It just seems like that sort of thing would come back to haunt you, if you happened to ban someone that held a drastically different opinion.

Cheers, Dan
Hell no Dan, A mod is supposed to be a superior being, ignoring all feelings, emotion, and knowledge, and never express such. In essence, they are cyborgs, controlled from a central computer that is attached to the forum, and follow the commands from a single, unbiased, and perfect entity that was developed with John Lennon's song 'Imagine' as the model.



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Old 09-09-2002, 12:58 AM   #83
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Cyborgs? Please tell you are joking. I've been fearful of robot-men since I was 4 years old. Don't joke about that shit.

In all seriousness, can I get an answer from someone? I know that if a mod that I disagreed with banned me from a forum, it would be unjust. Does justice matter in this place? (There's another question).

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Old 09-09-2002, 01:05 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
Cyborgs? Please tell you are joking. I've been fearful of robot-men since I was 4 years old. Don't joke about that shit.

In all seriousness, can I get an answer from someone? I know that if a mod that I disagreed with banned me from a forum, it would be unjust. Does justice matter in this place? (There's another question).

Mods dont have the power to ban a member from a forum, or the entire place...

I do. Sicy Does.

But, all (rare) bans are discussed between Sicy and I when making the ultimate decision, so you need not fear being banned by a mod.
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Old 09-09-2002, 01:54 AM   #85
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it takes a lot to be banned.

Quote:
Originally posted by Danospano
Cyborgs?

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Old 09-09-2002, 03:28 AM   #86
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Well bugger me.

Just wanted to offer some thoughts from the spare room/study/comp room of Angela H.

It pains me to think Americans might believe they are crying alone, suffering alone, were alone attacked on that day. I think the world is united when it is crying for the 3000 people killed on that day. The rest we mourn in various ways perhaps. From a distance, comes a sense of frustration at being so far away to really help, we can send money, but what could we do for the city of New York in the time that followed that? We felt from afar, the pain felt by an entire nation. The effects of that day, those few hours of terror, spread right across the globe. We cried for you all. We all must remember. Never forget. Yes America was suddenly and viciously assaulted, and still, we all try to find the reasons why those innocent lives ended. It was an assault on mankind, like someone said. I hope no one feels America must pull up the blinds and close the door on the rest of the world. We didnt get attacked, it was not majority of my people who were killed, but they were 3000 innocent lives. Where they lived and what their country stood for, is food for argument - wound openers, political weapons - the world is hurting because of it. It matters not where it happened, only why and that awful number who were lost. So many in one brutal, ugly, cowardly attack.

I am not ashamed to admit this, I want to watch the tv on that day, I want to see the specials. When the attack occured, like many, I think I was in a bit of a daze. 2 things in that time, I could not get my head around. The method of attack, and the number of people lost. I want to try to understand the hate involved. Perhaps I am too naive. I just didn't think it could happen. It happening at all, never occured to me. Wars are fought in countries that are usually different in some fundamental way to mine, suddenly that changed. How can America, a country who loves it freedom, the diversity of its people, its successes, its willingness to be a big brother to so many, be that despised, the taking of 3000 innocents is seen as a victory?

Maybe its best not to understand. But I want to try. We can never forget.
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Old 09-09-2002, 04:08 AM   #87
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I agree with all of the above from Angela.

Over the next hundred years a million people will write a million essays on the topic of what it meant and where it fits in history. It was only a year ago, 'the story' is still unfolding so comparing it at this stage to other historical events is pointless. And you can't compare it with plain statistics of other large scale deaths. Besides, at their peak the WTC buildings held nearly 50,000 people. It could have easily been a much better statistic for your comparions if it were a different time on a different day and rescue workers didn't do such a good job. It's beside the point.

I think how much of an impact it has depends on where you come from. Here in Australia, like the US, stuff like that doesn't happen, has never happened. Its a big deal in Australia because we've always had the attitude that things like that never happen in places like this. We fight in wars, terrorism on a large scale happens, terrible large scale killing happens, but its always 'over there somewhere', never here. I assume the average American before 9/11 felt the same way. Watching something like that happen to the US is especially chilling because it feels a little too close to home.

For people from alot of other parts of the world, war, terrorism, large scale killings are all things that in the last century have occured very close to home. kind of explains their more average or indifferent response to it.

The key is of course what the US learns from it, and what the world does about it. I think Afghanistan was the right immediate response, that had to be done, and was handled really really well, but from now on what the US does will be really important in stopping an event like that happening again, and also (maybe more important in the long run) stopping people from wanting an event like that happening again.

I think alot of what has come out of the US is over commercialised, the bumper stickers, t-shirts etc but hey I think that's just the US for you.

I'll be watching some of the shows on Wednesday. And Im going to New York in January. Last time I was there I was 16, and one of the highlights for me was how fucking cool the view was from the roof of the WTC.
And the way New York carried itself then through to now has been incredibly impressive and inspirational.
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Old 09-09-2002, 05:05 AM   #88
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My 2 cents

1. Perhaps you meant meant overkill instead of overrated....I fear that there will be a media saturation, and people would become desensitized to what happened. Some people clearly have. However, your initial post seems geared more to shit stirring than having a open discussion. Either you are truely a negative person, or just like to get people riled up.

I for one am glad that we can continue to have this discussion.
Thank you for not closing the thread so I could give my 2 cents (which happens to be the same two cents as most everyone else).

2. In terms of that the 3,000 people who died that day should consider themselves lucky that they didn't live in Africa and have to suffer with HIV/AIDS, this logic makes no sense to me. Not everyone in America is living in "Leave it to Beaver Land." There are millions of "lucky" American living in their cars, and on the street, hoping that they can find anything to feed their children, hoping for a way out and up There are millions of Americans living with the AIDS virus and HIV who can't afford the medical care to give them a better quality of life.

3. I knew the mods were robots, I just knew it.
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Old 09-09-2002, 07:47 AM   #89
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Dano, simply because I am a mod does not mean that I am not allowed to hold, and discuss, my own opinions. I try to remain impartial as to the *value* of others' opinions; i.e. a conservative member's opinion holds as much as water as a liberal's, or a newbie's as much as a veteran's.

RavenStar voiced her opinion, and I have every right to think that she voiced it poorly. I did not close her thread, though I wanted to.

And the next time you have an issue with me--or with another mod--take it up via PM, mmmmkay?
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Old 09-09-2002, 09:32 AM   #90
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All I have to say is that this thread is by far the worst thread ever posted in Interference (and i don't even need to go through the archives)!! Ravenstar, way to hit an all time low! You should be real proud of yourself. Should any of your friends or family die such a horrific and unjust death, i sure hope others treat you with such disdain!
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Old 09-09-2002, 09:48 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally posted by Arun V
I'm going to direct my attn to more productive matters....I suggest otehrs do the same....I'd liek to see this thread sink like a rock
I hear what you are saying Arun, but right now I just feel compelled to reply. I really can't even form coherent sentences right now because of the way I'm feeling about this thread, so I apologize for the poor quality of my post. And I know everyone has the right to his/her own opinion and to express it on here, but sometimes I really have to question the motives and if people even think twice about what they are posting.

I didn't read the whole thread,because I really don't want to-the original post set me off enough-but honestly, I am so upset by this. Because I grieve for what happened that day DOES NOT mean I grieve any less for any other tragedy around the world.

I have to be honest and say I KNEW there would be at least ONE thread on Interference like this. I guess the only 'redeeming' quality is that it wasn't actually posted on the 11th.

I don't know what else to say, except this makes me extremely sad. And yes-angry.

God Bless all the people we lost that day, and their friends and relatives.

There is a thread on Interference right now from a wonderful, brave girl who lost her boyfriend that day, and experienced it in a way that is beyond anything I can imagine. I will not post the link, because I don't have her permission to do so. I suggest that anyone who hasn't read it seek it out and read it. And then think if you would have the NERVE to tell her or any others who lost loved ones that day that it is 'overrated'.


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Old 09-09-2002, 09:59 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by TripThruUreWires
Should any of your friends or family die such a horrific and unjust death, i sure hope others treat you with such disdain!
please don't say that. i agree that ravenstar really blew it with this thread and it made me angry - so angry i probably overreacted earlier. but we should never wish something so horrible on anyone. i don't want anyone to feel so terribly. the best thing to do is learn from other people's bad attitude and be the opposite.

i'm sorry. i just needed to say that.
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Old 09-09-2002, 10:46 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by Screaming Flower


please don't say that. i agree that ravenstar really blew it with this thread and it made me angry - so angry i probably overreacted earlier. but we should never wish something so horrible on anyone. i don't want anyone to feel so terribly. the best thing to do is learn from other people's bad attitude and be the opposite.

i'm sorry. i just needed to say that.
you know, it's funny....i pretty much logged off from interference right after typing that post and got to thinking. i'm not one to usually subscribe to the idea of karma. in fact, i think the whole notion is a load of shit, thus i regret posting that last part. i suppose it was just a bit of a gut reaction. the only reason i came back on was to go and edit that post, but then stumbled upon this. unfortunately, it won't let me edit that last part out of my post, so i guess i have to leave it there. i apologise to ravenstar for making that single comment. i wouldn't wish his/her own attitude and irreverence on anyone in such a situation.
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Old 09-09-2002, 10:58 AM   #94
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sorry that i quoted you brooke. i shouldn't have done that either. i understand your reaction because i went off yesterday when i read this. sorry again.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:00 AM   #95
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar
I can easily put my family, friend, etc in those buildings. It is still no reason to take something as tragic as that and shove in people's faces.
Sorry but I donīt believe you. I neither want to think of any of my relatives or soulmates or friends or whoever I know in this building.

I am interpreting your words very positively now if I say that maybe you meant your opinion is sth. like: If we care so much about that tragedy, where so many innocent lives were lost, why donīt we seem to care about other tragedies; why isnīt the Washington Post or the London Telegraph 600 sides long every day with the innocent victims of hunger or diseases in the world?

Well, this is a valid question to ask, but this doesnīt make the tragedy that happened in NYC less tragic. And look, RavenStar, you canīt compare pain with pain. You canīt say this death is less tragic than that death (except in very, very extreme cases). Instead, you have to take the ones that were hurt by the hand, to try to... I donīt know... to give them some power maybe?

Take a look at what you said. I think it is not very sensitive. And I think you lied: if anyone you love would have died in this tragedy, you would still be full of pain now... or what kind of person are you?

This is not about your opinion or another opinion, it is about feelings. And feelings never are exaggerated.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:09 AM   #96
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Over here in the UK on tv last week, they had a prog on in which they had 're-constructed' close to how it might have been done and took real words from those interviewed who lost partner/friend/family etc on the flight (Im sorry, I've forgotten number of flight....), where those men went in and overpowered the highjackers in order for them not to hit their destination.....

For the pple who 're-constructed' those on that flight, it was hard to watch......watching them cry/panic/sayin 'goodbye, I dont know if I will see u again, but if not, I love you/tell the children I love them/ etc.......very hard to watch.......and esp when the REAL pple who lost those on that flight relived that moment and some broke down on camera....

it closed when it showed the point of the men entering the cockpit.

I did cry at the end of it all, those were very VERY brave men......
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:14 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar


I cannot give other Satanist a bad rep. Unlike other religions, we dont all conform to the herd and act like one another. One Satanists opinion can be the opposite from another Satanists opinion. Just because I think this way, doesnt mean someone else will.
Oh, so you are a Satanist?

Excuse me if I take a break to laugh my ass off! In my opinion, you are the most ridiculous people on this planet. You neither know who you are worshipping, but you kind of play around, who cares.

Believe me, I know. You are playing around with things you neither have caught a glimpse of, little boy - or girlie. I know your hero, and he is just around the corner, waiting, maybe for you? I donīt think you will like him though...

(btw, this is why to use the word "evil" is not appropriate for a state)
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:28 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally posted by RavenStar


Atleast the 3000 people that died got to live in one of the greatest countries in the world. Those people in Africa, they havent even had the chance to live how people in America get to live. I betchya most people in Africa would love to live for only 20 years in America (or any similar country) and then die. It is way better than dying of a disease you have had most (or all) of your life in a place where life is barely worth living without disease.
Only proves you donīt know shit about Africans.
Do a research, most Africans will never leave their home, because their tradition, religion, social connections, and their home is there. Maybe theyīd like to go on a holiday, for sure theyīd like more comfort, but not that many would go to live in the U.S.

And even worse: if you knew a little history, youīd know that the average life expectation for slaves in the country of the dishwashing millionaire was twenty years. So your remark seems more than a little cynical. I am sure they would have preferred to stay in Africa, too.
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Old 09-09-2002, 11:52 AM   #99
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I haven't read the whole thread either, but I thought I'd add my thoughts on this.

I wouldnt try and claim this wasnt a tragedy of the highest order, to say otherwise would be ridiculous. Also my deepest sympathies go to the families of those who were killed and to injured and my prayers with them.

But I've found the media coverage of the event extremely over the top and in places downright tasteless. On the day I couldnt bear to watch as time after time they showed the planes hitting...

And it hasnt got any better, between the attacks on 11/9 and the revenge sought in Afghanistan, for a whole year you cant get away from this.

I have to say if this happened in my country I wouldnt want such media coverage, especially as its likely to be 100 times worse in the country where it happened to anywhere else. And if one of my family members was killed I can honestly say I wouldnt want to see it on tv 24/7, I'd want some peace to mourn their death and then try and get on with life.

I realise a lot of you will consider me insensitive or anti-American or whatever, but I'll be avoiding all the documentaries, news items, newspaper articles. I'm not saying these events should be forgotten, they never will, we dont need constant reminders through every possible medium to remember.
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Old 09-09-2002, 12:52 PM   #100
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Originally posted by whenhiphopdrovethebigcars


Oh, so you are a Satanist?

Excuse me if I take a break to laugh my ass off! In my opinion, you are the most ridiculous people on this planet. You neither know who you are worshipping, but you kind of play around, who cares.

Believe me, I know. You are playing around with things you neither have caught a glimpse of, little boy - or girlie. I know your hero, and he is just around the corner, waiting, maybe for you? I donīt think you will like him though...

(btw, this is why to use the word "evil" is not appropriate for a state)
Satantists do not worship anyone, and that includes satan. From what I've read about Ravenstar in the past, I don't think she worships lucifer himself - to do so isn't in the teachings of Satanism. Basically Satanism was based on the "teachings" of anti-conformist Anton LeVey - who was little more than a shock prophet who chose the name of his bretheren for the sole purpose of shocking people, namely Christians. Later in life Anton LeVey, in his own way, denounced Satanism as nothing more than a whack-pseudo religion.

Nothing against Satanists who choose to follow the path of Anton LeVey, that's their own choice and they shouldn't be laughed at, - but if the leader himself denounces the bretheren he created and said in so many words, "I did it just to shock conformists" well... then...

*shrug*
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