9-11 coverup and U2

[DaveC]

People take option 2 when they're beaten and their case has been shown to be implausible and critically lacking.

This is also a popular tactic among right-wing fundamentalists.

And just for shits and giggles...

The amount of ridicule..

This is what happens when someone dares to stand up and think for themselves. Good luck with the government. And make sure to vote for the NeoNazis that runs america at the next opportunity also. I am not going to keep up this discussion in a serious manner when all facts are commented on without ANY background info at all.

Keep in mind, you still have presented precisely ZERO scholarly sources to back up your own viewpoint. Youtube and Google Videos do not count as scholarly sources.

This forum is called "Free Your Mind", but that doesn't mean you can come in here and say anything without a sound viewpoint. I could come in here and say chickens were our overlords in the Stone Age and I'd get laughed out of the place, too. But if I at least had some sort of scholarly (documentary, etc.) evidence that that was indeed the case, people would respond to me in a rational manner. You presented no sources and accused us of ignorance when we challenged that fact. You can't possibly have thought you could walk in here and we'd all suddenly agree based on a couple video links, so don't accuse us of ignorance when all we want to see is some sort of evidence that you actually know what you're talking about.

Someone else will have to take on this fight. I get to frustrated fighting the uneducated masses. Believe the disinformation if you like.

I am done!

Fair enough, if you're tired of the conversation. But don't act like we (those of us trying to debate the point academically) are uneducated. Some of the smartest people I know on both sides of just about every debate there is frequent this message board and discuss thorny issues every day, and it's one of the main reasons I come here, because those people who regularly post know that unless you at least look like you know what you're talking about, you're going to be called out on it. But it's done in a very scholarly manner - if you can't back up what you're saying, then don't say it and don't whine if we come back at you when you do.

I hope you stick around FYM - new opinions are refreshing. But don't be afraid to let us know where you get your facts from. Otherwise we have no compelling reason to believe what you say. Lawyers don't win cases by walking into courtrooms and sayng to the judge "my client is innocent, I rest my case. If you disagree, you are ignorant." They need evidence. If you want us to agree with you, and we're so disinformed and ignorant, shouldn't you want to educate us rather than just taking off in the face of an intellectual challenge?



I really need to get back to work on this paper. Damn this blue crack

 

[Canadiens1131]

I wanted a serious discussion.

Listen, for every flash video made by a film studies major in his dorm room, there is a credible article.

According to Hamburger's preliminary analysis, the impact of the jetliners shattered and fractured two-thirds of the support columns on one face of each tower, causing the partial collapse of several floors. Debris penetrated each building's core and may have damaged the core columns located in the center of the 110-story structures.

"The damaged columns held up the weight of the building, so logic would dictate that the building would fall," said Hamburger, "but that didn't happen. Because of its great structural redundancy, the load was distributed to other parts of the building. We have reason to believe that, without the fire, the buildings could have stood indefinitely and been repaired. But we did have a fire."

You can go back and forth posting stupid shit over and over, but it won't prove anything on either side of the argument.

Although, it's not an argument worth having because you clearly will not budge and evaluate any other viewpoints on the matter because you've been brainwashed by Youtube clips.

 

[Axver]

Arth, what do you have to say to the contents of this link?

http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/9/11_coverup#The_Collapse_of_the_WTC_Towers

Now, I'm not an expert on this, but what is said on that site seems a whole lot more sensible and less absurd than the argument you're presenting, and it strongly counters your arguments relating to such things as the Madrid tower that didn't collapse, and the fireproofing of the WTC. Oh, and it also addresses WTC7.

 

[ArthDent]

How can you say they are educated when they post ET as a response? One didn't even know that the third tower collapsed! What I am saying is please educate yourself on the subject before commenting! Or else it is pretty meaningless. And when I provide links etc nobody comments. But as I said. I do not need to do this. Others may prove my point better. The truth will come out sometime or other.

 

[Canadiens1131]

Arth, what do you have to say to the contents of this link?

http://www.skepticwiki.org/wiki/index.php/9/11_coverup#The_Collapse_of_the_WTC_Towers

Now, I'm not an expert on this, but what is said on that site seems a whole lot more sensible and less absurd than the argument you're presenting, and it strongly counters your arguments relating to such things as the Madrid tower that didn't collapse, and the fireproofing of the WTC. Oh, and it also addresses WTC7.

Axver, you should know that credible, well-researched information has no place in a thread like this Don't you have any slick Youtube videos with grainy pictures blown up ad nauseam?

How can you say they are educated when they post ET as a response? One didn't even know that the third tower collapsed! What I am saying is please educate yourself on the subject before commenting! Or else it is pretty meaningless. And when I provide links etc nobody comments. But as I said. I do not need to do this. Others may prove my point better. The truth will come out sometime or other.

When you fail to formulate any counter-argument to credible articles people have posted, and continue to go after a couple of people because it's all the ground you have, this doesn't even deserve to be discussed anymore. You're pathetic.

 

[Axver]

Axver, you should know that credible, well-researched information has no place in a thread like this

Woops, I forgot I was meant to be taking the piss out of this thread rather than actually trying to make a serious contribution.

How can you say they are educated when they post ET as a response?

Out of 125 posts on this thread, exactly how many have featured ET now?

 

[DaveC]

How can you say they are educated when they post ET as a response? One didn't even know that the third tower collapsed! What I am saying is please educate yourself on the subject before commenting! Or else it is pretty meaningless. And when I provide links etc nobody comments. But as I said. I do not need to do this. Others may prove my point better. The truth will come out sometime or other.

People DO have a sense of humour on this forum. It'd be a pretty dismal place if they didn't. Posting a photo of ET does not automatically imply ignorance, but complaining about someone posting a picture of a movie character rather than complaining about those of use who are cutting you to shreds by refuting your points certainly implies that you don't have much in the way of an address to the legitimate arguments being put forth.

Re: the third tower. So what if someone didn't know about it? As I said before, if your self-proclaimed job is to educate, shouldn't you be glad you have the opportunity to tell someone who has no viewpoint either way about your position? Calling said person uneducated accomplishes nothing more than to piss that person off and have one more person shut out your views.

You still haven't addressed the problem of sources. Nobody comments on the links you post because those aren't credible sources and are therefore totally irrelevant to the conversation.

 

[Varitek]

This thread is the equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and repeatedly ramming your head against a brick wall until your brain congeals and leaks out of your ears.

now if we could only find a brain-congealing-and-leaking-out-of-ears smiley!

 

[Vincent Vega]

National Institute of Standards and Technology

This institue as part of the conspiracy, for sure.


ArthDent, get your facts right!
The WTC was built to withstand ONE 707 plane.
It actually was hit by 767 and 757 planes, and not at some random level, but at levels of the building that were substantial for the towers.

I would like to see you quoting one of the serious posts and actually providing backed facts (i.e. sources) to show that you didn't only watch one of the conspiracy pages found on google.

 

[Varitek]

How can you say they are educated when they post ET as a response? One didn't even know that the third tower collapsed! What I am saying is please educate yourself on the subject before commenting! Or else it is pretty meaningless. And when I provide links etc nobody comments. But as I said. I do not need to do this. Others may prove my point better. The truth will come out sometime or other.

You got me, I'm uneducated. I may be able to spell speech and poll, and I may be a student at a top college, and I may have read 2/3 of the 9/11 report (it's sitting on my nightstand right now, I'm alternating it with fiction), but I am totally uneducated.

As for your links. As others have said, unsourced youtube/google videos and articles by people with no credentials do not constitute sources. But then I guess that's why conspiracy theories never catch on - it's a conspiracy by the media to keep them out.

And I'm not sure what others you expect to prove your point on this board.

This thread was more fun at 7am when I was writing a paper.

 

[Varitek]

My battery's dead, but I'll be back to this thread. I think it's my favorite ever.

 

[DaveC]

This institue as part of the conspiracy, for sure.

While I'm not 100% sure, I'm going to assume that's sarcasm. I know nothing about the organization, that's just the number I pulled off Wikipedia (yeah, shitty source - another thread idea just brewed though).



Hey Varitek, mind if I ask where you're from? The forum is telling me that you're half an hour behind me, but that would put you precisely nowhere, since the next time zone back is Eastern, a full hour away... ETA: never mind, I read the user local time as linked with the post time. You're an hour back, and thankfully not in some nexus of the universe.

 

[Vincent Vega]

While I'm not 100% sure, I'm going to assume that's sarcasm. I know nothing about the organization, that's just the number I pulled off Wikipedia (yeah, shitty source - another thread idea just brewed though).

It's sarcasm

I don't believe this conspiracy shit.

 

[jacobus]

grill the bastard BUSH and his criminals...this current US administration is the worst case for the socalled rest of the world
what a ridiculous term....rest of the world tststs

 

[Vincent Vega]

Change your drugs.

 

[DaveC]

grill the bastard BUSH and his criminals...this current US administration is the worst case for the socalled rest of the world
what a ridiculous term....rest of the world tststs

Care to explain in English?

 

[Varitek]

Hey Varitek, mind if I ask where you're from? The forum is telling me that you're half an hour behind me, but that would put you precisely nowhere, since the next time zone back is Eastern, a full hour away... ETA: never mind, I read the user local time as linked with the post time. You're an hour back, and thankfully not in some nexus of the universe.

I'm from the American East Coast but currently I'm in Europe, hence being up in the morning writing a paper when this thread was started. I was too lazy to change my local time.

 

[verte76]

I detest the Bush Administration, but I don't think they were involved in any conspiracy on 9/11. It's totally shameful the way they've manipulated 9/11 for political purposes. Just about everything they've done is shameful. I wish they could be punished for this Iraq fiasco they've gotten us into. Some of us think impeachment is a good idea. That wouldn't be an improvement because who on earth wants Cheney in the Oval Office? He's a right wing nut with some intelligence.

 

[nathan1977]

This thread should be closed due to stupidity.

 

[Varitek]

No it should be open due to hilarity.

 

[ArthDent]

It should be open due to importance...

 

[Irvine511]

i this thread.

i haven't been this entertained by something in FYM in ages.

 

[AliEnvy]

10 pages in and this is still the best line of the thread (from the initial post).

U2 must in time stand up to this! It's a big task but Charlie Sheen and the Dixie Chicks is not enough

Leslie Neilson's Frank Drebbin springs to mind hehe...time for Zucker, Zucker and Abrams to reunite.

 

[U2isthebest]

I saw this thread first posted last night. I ignored it because I thought it would've been locked by morning. I didn't expect to see it explode into 8 pages!

Arth, you speak a lot about government manipulation, but you say NOTHING about who manipulates the government!!! Come on, dude, get your facts straight!

I always KNEW he was a sneaky bastard!

 

[mikal]

OMFG!!!111 DO SOMETHING!!!111 ELVIS IS STILL ALIVE!!!111

 

[U2isthebest]

Where was he this time? Was it a McDonalds in Ohio? an Autozone in Florida? Or is he still on the top floor of that Dallas hospital with JFK, Marilyn Monroe, Martin Luther King Jr., Amelia Earhart, and all those other people that faked their disappearances/deaths?

 

[ArthDent]

lol you guys are worse than the really bad conspiracy idiots. If the 9-11 comission had written.. bla-bla bla bla-bla. You would have disregarded the pancaketheory and said that bla-bla bla bla-bla caused the towers to collapse.

Yes I give up. You won't see it anyway. No matter what

 

[U2isthebest]

That's right. It's hard to see something that's completely FALSE. Imagine that. It seems to be something you're good at.

 

[BVS]

10 pages and not viable link or source, how can that be???

 

[Irvine511]

the reason i dont' believe conspiracies is that they require too many moving parts operating perfectly.

people are too stupid for that, people screw up too much, and people want to talk.

for something the scale of 911 to have been pulled off by some shadowy conspiracy would require people to keep their mouths shut.

ArthDent, there's a South Park episode you really need to see ...

you'd make a good Hardly Boy.

unh, i've got such a raging clue ...