#5 - Love and Hate and Society

melon · 05-06-2002, 06:05 PM

This is really something that I have not really understood my entire life, but, increasingly, I have begun to understand where it arose from.

When I was growing up, "love" offenses (i.e., public displays of affection) were treated much harsher than "hate" offenses (i.e, fighting). Of course, it took a few school shootings to finally change that course, but it ultimately brings me to my question:

Why do we fear love?

I have only to look at the nature of right-wing religion in America to wonder what went wrong. Devoutly Christian, anti-sex, pro-gun, pro-death penalty. After September 11th, I was shocked to hear the calls for war, coming from otherwise respected Christian "family" organizations. Most certainly, I will admit that this is a generalization, and I don't believe that all right-wing religious are necessarily this way, but there is enough of a contingent that this question can be posed.

The only thing I can really think of to answer this question of mine is to recall back to medieval Christian tradition, which was suspicious of any form of pleasure, not to mention disdainful of any display of emotion. This sentiment gets recalled during the 1690s, with the height of the Puritans in America, and then rehashed yet again with the arrival of Sigmund Freud in the late 19th century, who successfully turned the world forever perverted.

Do we distrust love, because we fear an ulterior motive? Do we trust hate, because we know what it is when we see it? Kind of a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality? Do we see love as "weakness" and hate as "strength"?

Melon

------------------
"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy

Miss MacPhisto · 05-06-2002, 10:20 PM

The latter. Kindness, love, and caring, are definitely seen as weaknesses. Kind people are veiwed as stupid, while evil people are always seen as intelligent.

In court, for example, they never recognize love, or kindness of any kind.

Actually, all emotions seem to be frowned upon. Try crying in public, or getting angry. You'll be treated like a freak, and possibly even thrown out or arrested.

This is all very, very SICK.

------------------
Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you...

My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME...

"Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert

Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you...

Zoomerang96 · 05-06-2002, 11:27 PM

in junior high, we werent allowed to hug girls because we were told by our lovely principle that "hugging leads to sex."

so we didnt hug any more.

------------------
-deathbear

melon · 05-07-2002, 05:13 PM

So how do you think "hate"--fighting, bullying, violence, war, etc.--is recepted in society / schools?

Melon

------------------
"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy

**KhanadaRhodes** · 05-07-2002, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoomerang96:
told by our lovely principle

wow, i didn't know they could talk.

we weren't allowed to hug anyone, girls or boys, because if you hugged boys then you *must* be banging them @ 11, and if you hugged girls then you were a lesbian.

80sU2isBest · 05-07-2002, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoomerang96:
in junior high, we werent allowed to hug girls because we were told by our lovely principle that "hugging leads to sex."
so we didnt hug any more.

I read about that in the newspaper! Are you from the Dallas area? That happened in Dallas;, only in Dallas, it was even worse - girls weren't even allowed to hug girls!

80sU2isBest · 05-07-2002, 06:21 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melon:
After September 11th, I was shocked to hear the calls for war, coming from otherwise respected Christian "family" organizations. Most certainly, I will admit that this is a generalization, and I don't believe that all right-wing religious are necessarily this way, but there is enough of a contingent that this question can be posed.
Do we distrust love, because we fear an ulterior motive? Do we trust hate, because we know what it is when we see it? Kind of a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality? Do we see love as "weakness" and hate as "strength"?

Well, first I'll say that I don't think it's necessarily "unChristian" to support wars - especially in this case...if we don't destroy terrorists, they will live to keep doing what they do. World War 2 was definitely a case in which it wasn't "unChristian" to support a war.
For the second part, I do think that hate has taken over in this world. It's evident everywhere - from the little things like the schoolyard bully calling people hurtful names all the way up to the big things like murder and rape. That's how Satan wants it. Fear, greed, hatred and lust are his biggest weapons, I think. I get uncomfortable with certain displays of public affection. Holding hands doesn't bother me - but passionate kissing on the lips in public (except a wedding) by gays or straights really makes me uncomfortable. I think "Can't you control yourself till you get home?"

Zoomerang96 · 05-07-2002, 10:53 PM

actually im from canada.

the principle was a nut, so we rebelled big time.

------------------
after years of waiting, nothing came.

05-06-2002, 06:05 PM	#1
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 11,782 Local Time: 05:55 AM	#5 - Love and Hate and Society This is really something that I have not really understood my entire life, but, increasingly, I have begun to understand where it arose from. When I was growing up, "love" offenses (i.e., public displays of affection) were treated much harsher than "hate" offenses (i.e, fighting). Of course, it took a few school shootings to finally change that course, but it ultimately brings me to my question: Why do we fear love? I have only to look at the nature of right-wing religion in America to wonder what went wrong. Devoutly Christian, anti-sex, pro-gun, pro-death penalty. After September 11th, I was shocked to hear the calls for war, coming from otherwise respected Christian "family" organizations. Most certainly, I will admit that this is a generalization, and I don't believe that all right-wing religious are necessarily this way, but there is enough of a contingent that this question can be posed. The only thing I can really think of to answer this question of mine is to recall back to medieval Christian tradition, which was suspicious of any form of pleasure, not to mention disdainful of any display of emotion. This sentiment gets recalled during the 1690s, with the height of the Puritans in America, and then rehashed yet again with the arrival of Sigmund Freud in the late 19th century, who successfully turned the world forever perverted. Do we distrust love, because we fear an ulterior motive? Do we trust hate, because we know what it is when we see it? Kind of a "shoot first, ask questions later" mentality? Do we see love as "weakness" and hate as "strength"? Melon ------------------ "Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy __________________

05-06-2002, 10:20 PM	#2
Miss MacPhisto Banned Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Planet Pleba Posts: 1,957 Local Time: 02:55 AM	The latter. Kindness, love, and caring, are definitely seen as weaknesses. Kind people are veiwed as stupid, while evil people are always seen as intelligent. In court, for example, they never recognize love, or kindness of any kind. Actually, all emotions seem to be frowned upon. Try crying in public, or getting angry. You'll be treated like a freak, and possibly even thrown out or arrested. This is all very, very SICK. ------------------ Look...look what you've done to me...You've made me poor and infamous, and I thank you... My name is MISS MACPHISTO...I'm tired and i want to go HOME... "Well you tell...Bonovista,that i said hello and that my codename is Belleview" - Bono before opening night of Anaheim Elevation concert Well tonight thank God it's them, instead of you... __________________

05-07-2002, 10:53 PM	#8
Zoomerang96 ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: canada Posts: 13,462 Local Time: 05:55 AM	actually im from canada. the principle was a nut, so we rebelled big time. ------------------ after years of waiting, nothing came. __________________

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05-06-2002, 11:27 PM	#3
Zoomerang96 ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: canada Posts: 13,462 Local Time: 05:55 AM	in junior high, we werent allowed to hug girls because we were told by our lovely principle that "hugging leads to sex." so we didnt hug any more. ------------------ -deathbear

05-07-2002, 05:13 PM	#4
melon ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Toronto, Ontario Posts: 11,782 Local Time: 05:55 AM	So how do you think "hate"--fighting, bullying, violence, war, etc.--is recepted in society / schools? Melon ------------------ "Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy