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Old 08-11-2006, 09:32 AM   #21
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I'm not prejudiced against Muslims. I believe every human being has prejudice of some sort, so in that sense I probably am. I try to be as self-aware of it as possible.

I am prejudiced against terrorists, but Muslim does not equal terrorist and obviously therefore not all Muslims are terrorists, not by a long shot. Just like not all Christians are represented by a minority of Christians.
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Old 08-11-2006, 09:58 AM   #22
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What about the prejudices of the terrorist Muslim groups and other ethnic groups? I hear alot of other ethnic groups state all the time how they hate americans! The evening of 9/11 I saw a lot of Muslims and others in Paterson, NJ on televisin celebrating the devistation! Why is it always that Americans are prejudice but no one else is??
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:09 AM   #23
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I have had a number of conversations with Muslims on matters of faith and frankly I have very little respect for most of their beliefs, I have found conservative social opinions stifling and a distaste towards opinions regarding genuine free speech (namely legal blasphemy) and in so far as protecting non-negotiable liberties from what I would describe as moderate religious beliefs I admit a bias and prejudice against their belief - and I have absolutely no problem with that.

People are all more or less the same, and we can get along - but at the collision of liberties and belief there will be heat; provided we avoid talking politics or religion I can get along with people.
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:18 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
I have had a number of conversations with Muslims and frankly I have very little respect for most of their beliefs, I have found conservative social opinions stifling and a distaste towards opinions regarding genuine free speech (namely legal blasphemy) and in so far as protecting non-negotiable liberties from what I would describe as moderate religious beliefs I admit a bias and prejudice against their belief - and I have absolutely no problem with that.


actually, i tend to agree with this.

i know several Muslims, have spent time with a Moroccan family when i was traveling there, and have nothing but nice things to say about them as human beings (and Morocco was the best travel experience i have ever had). however, i have a tough time respecting the various ways in which Islam is expressed in various societies (not so much in the US, though) much in the same way that i have a tough time respeting the various ways in which Christianity is expressed in some societies (very much in the US). if a Muslim draws great strength from Islam and this helps them be a better person, that's great. the same with Christianity. but it's when the religion becomes dogmatic, fundamentalist, and politicized -- not when a Christian or Muslim is political, but when Christianity or Islam becomes a political viewpoint -- then i have a problem with it no matter what, who, or where.

so i find the poll misleading and horribly lacking in nuance.

do i have issues with Islam? of course.

do i have issues with Muslims? not in the slightest.
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:27 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by melon


With the predictable whiny conservative follow-up.

Melon
Not to mention the whiny yet erroneous arrogant generalization
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:30 AM   #26
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Re: Re: Re: 39% of Americans admit to being prejudiced against Muslims

Quote:
Originally posted by verte76


What does this have to do with Muslims?
In this latest case, they're the ones trying to blow up planes on a route I frequent about 4X year


In previous cases:

In 1968 who assassinated Robert Kennedy?
(a) Abbe Hoffman
(b) Tiny Tim
(c) Charles Manson
(d) Muslim male extremist between the age of 17 and 40

In 1972 at the Munich Olympics, athletes were kidnapped and massacred
by:
(a)Olga Corbutt
(b)Sitting Bull
(c)Arnold Schwartzeneger
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1979,the U.S. embassy in Iran was taken over by:
(a) Lost Norwegians
(b) Elvis
(c) A tour bus full of 80-year-old women
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


During the 1980's a number of Americans were kidnapped in Lebanon by:
(a) John Dillinger
(b) The King of Sweden
(c) The Boy Scouts
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1983, the U.S. Marine barracks in Beirut was blown up by:
(a) A pizza delivery boy
(b) Pee Wee Herman
(c) Geraldo Rivera making up for a slow news day
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.


In 1985 the cruise ship Achille Lauro was hijacked, and a 70 year old
American passenger was murdered and thrown overboard by:
(a) The Smurfs
(b) Davy Jones
(c) The Little Mermaid
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40.


In 1985 TWA flight 847 was hijacked at Athens, and a U.S. Navy diver
was murdered by:
(a) Captain Kid
(b) Charles Lindberg
(c) Mother Teresa
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1988, Pan Am Flight 103 was bombed by:
(a) Scooby Doo
(b) The Tooth Fairy
(c) Butch Cassidy and The Sundance Kid with dynamite left over from
the train job.
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1993 the World Trade Center was bombed the first time by:
(a) Richard Simmons
(b) Grandma Moses
(c) Michael Jordan
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 1998, the U.S. embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were bombed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Hillary, to distract attention from Wild Bill's women problems
(c) The World Wrestling Federation to promote its next villain:
"Mustapha the Merciless"
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


iN 1999, The USS Cole was attacked and more than 15 American Sailors
were killed by:
(a) David Letterman
(b) Shaquille O'Neil
(c) The Cookie Monster
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 2001 Phillipene Missionaries Gracia and Martin Burnham were
kidnapped, held for over a year, and Martin subsequently killed by:
(a) Mr. Rogers
(b) Scooby Doo & Shaggy
(c) Ronald Reagan
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


On 9/11/01, four airliners were hijacked and destroyed and thousands
of people were killed by:
(a) Bugs Bunny, Wiley E. Coyote, Daffy Duck, and Elmer Fudd
(b) The Supreme Court of Florida
(c) Mr. Bean
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 2002 the United States fought a war in Afghanistan against:
(a)Enron
(b)The Lutheran Church
(c)The NFL
(d)Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


In 2002 reporter Daniel Pearl was kidnapped and murdered by:
(a) Bonny and Clyde
(b) Captain Kangaroo
(c) Billy Graham
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 40


On July 4th 2002, 2 Innocent Airline Passengers Were Killed, And 3
Others Injured at the ticket counter of El Al Airlines in the LAX
International terminal by:
(a) Hulk Hogan after losing the WWF Title
(b) The cast of Monty Python
(c) Senator Lil' Tommy Daschle
(d) Muslim male extremists mostly between the ages of 17 and 41
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:31 AM   #27
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Hmm, my boyfriend is a male Muslim between the age of 17 and 40. Last time I checked he was more peaceful and open-minded than a good majority of the people who post on this forum.
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Old 08-11-2006, 10:55 AM   #28
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I think that by the numbers this forum is more progressive and open minded than the average Muslim population in Western countries, there was a very good documentary on Channel 4 on the degree of sepratism in British Muslims just the other night which was not so much eye opening as it was reinforcing the attitudes that have consistently shown up in polls. I think that discrimination against such seperatism is the only way to integrate, if a group of believers simply reject the society then they can either try to make it on their own or find the advantage in integration.

Islam is not a race or ethnicity, it is a belief system and it deserves scrutiny and criticism; if their beliefs disrespect the gays and the unbelievers as people then we should be under no obligation to give respect.
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:10 PM   #29
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Re: Re: Re: Re: 39% of Americans admit to being prejudiced against Muslims

Quote:
Originally posted by toscano


about the same as some of these posts, less than some but certainly more than your last one did
I would say less than most.

And your multiple choice post; juvenile and ignorant.
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:21 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
Hmm, my boyfriend is a male Muslim between the age of 17 and 40. Last time I checked he was more peaceful and open-minded than a good majority of the people who post on this forum.

I'm sure he is, maybe if you feel comfortable doing so you could tell us more about him I don't know if it would ever get through to some people but it's worth doing nonetheless.

It's so much easier I suppose to lump people all together and to stereotype them thus dehumanizing them. Requires much less thought process and openmindedness. We might actually like people who are supposedly ALL our "enemies" and our preconceived notions and entrenched beliefs might be crushed-and oh my God, the whole house of cards would crumble. Muslim people aren't the only ones who fall victim to that in this forum of course, but of course it doesn't make it any less offensive.
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:21 PM   #31
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Re: Re: Re: Re: 39% of Americans admit to being prejudiced against Muslims

Quote:
Originally posted by toscano


In previous cases:


You left out IRA bombings.
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Old 08-11-2006, 01:25 PM   #32
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 39% of Americans admit to being prejudiced against Muslims

Quote:
Originally posted by ntalwar


You left out IRA bombings.


ETA
Beider Meinhoff
Shining Path
Tamil Tigers
FARC
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Old 08-12-2006, 02:54 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511

actually, i tend to agree with this.

i know several Muslims, have spent time with a Moroccan family when i was traveling there, and have nothing but nice things to say about them as human beings (and Morocco was the best travel experience i have ever had). however, i have a tough time respecting the various ways in which Islam is expressed in various societies (not so much in the US, though) much in the same way that i have a tough time respeting the various ways in which Christianity is expressed in some societies (very much in the US). if a Muslim draws great strength from Islam and this helps them be a better person, that's great. the same with Christianity. but it's when the religion becomes dogmatic, fundamentalist, and politicized -- not when a Christian or Muslim is political, but when Christianity or Islam becomes a political viewpoint -- then i have a problem with it no matter what, who, or where.

so i find the poll misleading and horribly lacking in nuance.

do i have issues with Islam? of course.

do i have issues with Muslims? not in the slightest.
I would have to agree with you both as well. If I had participated in a poll yesterday, I am afraid I would have responded rather negatively as well. Not to the extent of saying I wouldn't want a Muslim as a neighbor, or believing American Muslims back Al-Qaida...but I would have confessed to having problems with Islam.

And I have studied Islam and have usually been the first person to defend it as a faith that does not embrace or advocate violence. I was just arguing this with a Christian fundamentalist last month. (Who kept holding Rabbi Daniel Lapin up as some kind of expert..."I'm sure he's read the Qu'ran" ) I will still defend it as such.

But I find myself getting very frustrated by the growing abuse and politicization of it. My greatest wish is that the peaceful Muslims would really band together and take their faith BACK--just as I wish Christians would do against fundamentalists.
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Old 08-12-2006, 03:23 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by AvsGirl41

My greatest wish is that the peaceful Muslims would really band together and take their faith BACK--just as I wish Christians would do against fundamentalists.
This is my wish as well...

But if this forum is any indicator, it will be awhile.
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Old 08-12-2006, 08:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
And that's just the amount that admit it, given the threads in here and the things I see in my everyday life I would say that number is much much higher.
Yes, there are plenty of unspoken or unadmitted prejudices to go around.
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Old 08-12-2006, 10:20 AM   #36
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They are perfectly spoken, a majority of Muslims want it to be illegal to speak out against their religon while at the same time there are many demanding the right to be prejudiced against Jews and homosexuals and to speak out to that effect, the layers of hypocricy in demanding state protection from critics as well as your right to criticise is simply irreconcilable with a pluralistic modern free society. The qualifiers in that assertion are two-fold, firstly the demand for religious vilification laws being supported may be found in any number of polls and secondly the many who want to reserve the right to criticise is on the basis of self appointed spokesmen who make prejudiced statements (one specific case may be Iqbal Sacranie on gays). Lets be perfectly clear I am not saying that the majority are Al Garuba types goosestepping down the street with placards declaring that those who insult their religion should be beheadded but I do think that a solid majority think that expressions like the Mohammed Cartoons should be banned and that there should be an enforceable law against blasphemy, when I look at the religious vilification law that we have in Victoria I only wonder why it doesn't tackle the genuine vilification of others by the religious - true religious vilification.

The demands for respect ring very hollow when the religion has relegated my ideological and philisophical kin to percecution and death, I will abide and tolerate Islam but I will give it no more respect than I do other conservative theologies - a point to which the religious may invariably be wary about.

As a furthur note of prejudice it may be worthwhile refering to the survey that I posted a month ago about the most hated group in America today, the atheists - they fall behind the Muslims and the Gays - in a free society all groups are equal in their lack of protection or persecution by the state.
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Old 08-12-2006, 11:33 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by toscano
Not to mention the whiny yet erroneous arrogant generalization


When you're ready to contribute something to this thread besides FUD and e-mail forwards, then we'll talk.

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Old 08-12-2006, 12:47 PM   #38
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 39% of Americans admit to being prejudiced against Muslims

Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511


FARC
I was going to mention that group since I'm Colombian and I've seen how violent they are against civil population....

and they are not muslims
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Old 08-12-2006, 12:59 PM   #39
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 39% of Americans admit to being prejudiced against Muslim

Quote:
Originally posted by Muggsy
I was going to mention that group since I'm Colombian and I've seen how violent they are against civil population....

and they are not muslims
I think Irvine was mentioning other terrorist groups besides Muslims. ETA is Basque. The Shining Path is Peruvian....I think? The Tamil Tigers are in Sri Lanka, and it's ethnic motivated, not religious.

I think the other was referring to "Baader-Meinhof Group" or, more commonly known as the "Red Army Faction," a West German left-wing terrorist organization in the 1970s.

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Old 08-12-2006, 02:10 PM   #40
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 39% of Americans admit to being prejudiced against Mu

Quote:
Originally posted by melon


I think Irvine was mentioning other terrorist groups besides Muslims. ETA is Basque. The Shining Path is Peruvian....I think? The Tamil Tigers are in Sri Lanka, and it's ethnic motivated, not religious.

I think the other was referring to "Baader-Meinhof Group" or, more commonly known as the "Red Army Faction," a West German left-wing terrorist organization in the 1970s.

Melon
yeah.. I understand that.. that's why I mentioned that

lore.
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