#3 - Conversing with God?

[melon]

Do you think it is possible to talk to God? I'm not talking about something as vague as an accident near-miss, which could be attributed to either God or coincidence, nor am I necessarily talking about conscious visions where you see God standing in front of you.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I believe I have conversed with God before. In fact, last night, I had a dream that I believe revealed the nature of God on morality, which I had prayed for an answer very deeply before I had gone to sleep. It wasn't specific as in God literally telling me what to do, but in a dream that had a very personal and specific message that I would not have thought of otherwise. And this isn't the first time...I've felt God's presence and had equally vaguely specific messages for probably my entire life.

It is certainly hard to describe, but do you believe that God intercedes enough in our world as to give us "visions," etc.?

Melon

------------------
"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy

 

[CannibalisticArtist]

if we see a man talking to himself, we assume that he is mentally distressed. if we see a man praying, we assume he is talking to God. to answer your question, i have no idea.

 

[80sU2isBest]

Originally posted by melon:

It is certainly hard to describe, but do you believe that God intercedes enough in our world as to give us "visions," etc.?
Melon

I think that in the OT, God did that more than he does now. But I think he does still do it from time to time, but not very often.

 

[Vorsprung]

Originally posted by 80sU2isBest:

I think that in the OT, God did that more than he does now. But I think he does still do it from time to time, but not very often.

Well, I know I'm not the kind of guy to reply to this topic, but all I wanna say is that the OT is about a timepan of many many centuries, so I don't think you can say God contacted humans more back then than he does now....



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Vorsprung durch Technik

 

[mug222]

I think your dream was your subconscious reflecting your thoughts on morality in a way you hadn't encountered before.

The brain is an incredible thing--I have no idea why people ignore its machinations and instead attribute its discoveries to God. Maybe that's a normal response, I don't know.

 

[Lilly]

Originally posted by melon:
It is certainly hard to describe, but do you believe that God intercedes enough in our world as to give us "visions," etc.?

Melon

Yes. Yes I do. I was at the lowest point I had been not too long ago. I actually prayed for help (pretty rare at that time that I prayed at all). A few nights after that I had a dream in which I was chosen to go sit in an auditorium to ask one question to Bono. The other people were asking trivial questions--how's the band, what's next, etc. When I raised my hand, Bono looked at me and said "You'll be ok, everything will be fine." It was oddly comforting.

 

[U2Bama]

I can relate to the experiences of Melon and Lilly, and I believe that it truly is a communication from God.

In 1991, my Dad was in the hospital after having a couple of heart attacks. It was the weekend leading up to the week I was supposed to go to a Methodist Church camp where I spent much of my summers, and I happened to be an officer for the week I was going. My dad's condition became critical and they had to expedite his surgery before I left, and I didn't go until a day later.

Once he came out of surgery and was stabilized, my brother was heading home to his town near the church camp, so my Mom suggested I ride with him. I really was not ready to leave my Dad yet, but I decided to go ahead.

Once I got there, all of my friends at the camp knew what I had been threw (they had told them my Dad was having surgery) and the outreach was wonderful, but it could not shake the fears I still had about my Dad's recovery.

That first night, I could not get to sleep for a couple of hours, but finally I did fall asleep. I vividly remember a dream, looking in on my Dad's CICU hospital room, and it was at night, just as it was when I was sleeping; physically, I had only seen my Dad in that room in the daytime, just as he came from the OR, still hooked up to numerous tubes and such and far from conscious.

But the main thing about this image of him in the CICU room was this: a group of doctors and nurses were standing around him, but a bright light was shining from where he was.

I woke up briefly from that dream, but then fell back asleep and rested peacefully through the night.

The next morning when I called my Mom, she said that he was recovering wonderfully and he, too, rested very well through the night.

My fears were pretty much alleviated through the rest of the week and when I got home the following Saturday, I could not get over how well he had recovered.

Cynics, atheists, and the like will say "it's just a dream," but I know better. I was at a physical place very spiritual to me, and my Dad was in a critical situation. God let me know that He was indeed there with my Dad and with me, and it gave me great comfort while we couldn't be together.

~U2Alabama

 

[z edge]

I am glad to see this thread, I like it already. I have firm beliefs and deep convictions, not always revealed by my actions or how I "express" myself. In my "from" in my status; I had something about "guided by voices..." and the "spinner of the world". In my own mind, I reason that to mean spoken to by God and God being the "spinner of the world", so to speak. I made the latter up, just a way to identify with something you have put your own emphasis to without drawing away from the power or glory or grace.

I have had a lot of scary moments in the last year or two, and I can say I went through most of them without bothering to pray. I can also say that I have prayed about 3-4 specific things repeatedly in the last couple/few weeks, and something happened that made me feel "wow" last friday. It was the result of something that has been ongoing for over a month, and has really bothered me. Something gave me great comfort friday afternoon, and I felt power and comfort that elated me to the point of feeling "guided by voices" at a particular moment of realization that it was prayer that sent me in that direction.

I believe that constant prayer is necessary, God knows we yearn and hurt, desire and fear, and he answers some of the questions some of the time. To me, it means answered in a way that you feel in spiritual guidance as much as you hear, the deepest conversation which is a million times stronger than the remotely similiar understood language between two lovers.

My mother was diagnosed with lopus in 79 or 80, I was very young as was my sister. She became very ill and was in and out of the hospital a lot. This was hard on the family, yet I was too young to understand the impact of the situation. Anyway, she became much worse to the point we had to have family members stay with her at all times when she was at home.

At one point, the doctor sent her back home to be with us. His logic was that next time she came back to the hospital would be her last. And it was not quality time either. She was on so much medication that she slept a lot and was very irritable, didn't hardly eat, and so on. I should also mention that they had already sent her through chemotherapy as well.

Our rock was the church that came over and devoted so much of their time to us/her. Their prayer gave us hope, though all of the doctors gave her weeks if not days. One night back home, she had fallen asleep after her ritual of prayer to be awaken by a vision. There was an "apparition" that appeared next to her bed of three figures, one dominant. It was the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost-or the Trinity of Man. They spoke to her, and told her that it was okay and everything was going to be alright, and told her by name that they were going to take care of her.

Immediately following that she was admitted back into the hospital, and the doctors figured that was it. For some reason, the doctor decided to remove her spleen in emergency surgery (not standard practice for lopus patients in the early 80's) and she immediately got better. In a couple of weeks she was back home for good. Minus a couple of flare-ups she has been fine and just celebrated her 58th birthday.

She has also defeated all the doctor's advice of never being allowed to work (stress), she was an ad-exec for the major newspaper for years, and now she owns her own business!!

Anyway, sorry to go on so long.

Bless you

[This message has been edited by z edge (edited 04-09-2002).]

 

[popsadie]

z edge..awesome....I actually believe that God speaks to us as well. My story isn't as dramatic as literal life and death, but it still is significant to me...and besides, it has a little u2ey ness

Back almost five years ago I went through a quite spiritually dark time and had basically degressed to an agnostic view on life. One night however..(and this is where the u2 comes in..lol) I was listening to a band I had just gotten interested in..and realized that their songs were really affecting me...and a good part of the reason was because they involved a relationship with God..something I thought I didn't care about anymore...anyway..that night I cried and prayed repeatedly for God to reveal himself to me. Strangely, throughout that week total strangers and acquaintences began asking me about my beliefs and sharing their faith with me. I had one believer who I hadn't talked with before come up to me out of the blue and ask if I went to church. All in all I counted 6 or 7 people who shared their faith with me unprompted...this week is still very vivid to me...I believe God answered my prayer that week and I am beyond grateful that he did...that he let me into his presence....

 

[Lilly]

Originally posted by U2Bama:
Cynics, atheists, and the like will say "it's just a dream," but I know better. I was at a physical place very spiritual to me, and my Dad was in a critical situation. God let me know that He was indeed there with my Dad and with me, and it gave me great comfort while we couldn't be together.

~U2Alabama

U2Bama: It's truly silly what that dream did to me. It seriously awoke me into my "Christian" self. I guess it made me realize in a more concrete manner what god does for me.

 

[U2Bama]

Originally posted by Lilly:
U2Bama: It's truly silly what that dream did to me. It seriously awoke me into my "Christian" self. I guess it made me realize in a more concrete manner what god does for me.

That was the reason for the dream, don't you think?

 

[joyfulgirl]

I've had many such experiences and do believe that God communicates to us in many ways--dreams, visions, flashes of inspiration, opening a book at random and having your eyes land on a sentence that answers a burning question you've had, etc.

But I've learned it's best to keep the message to myself and not reveal the exact contents of the experience except with a very trusted friend who will not only support me but perhaps gain some spiritual value from it themselves. I feel that these are very personal experiences and that sharing them indiscriminately can somehow dilute the power of them. For example, people may judge you for it, or be jealous, or be sad that they haven't had such an experience, or think you're bragging about it, or interpret it a different way than you do which can create unnecessary confusion or a feeling of being misunderstood. On the other hand, a very trusted and wise confidante can sometimes shed a new light on it that can be illuminating, but I am very cautious.

I personally enjoy hearing about them from others, but I have learned the hard way to be very careful about what I share and with whom. The last thing you want is to really feel that God is working with you in a certain way and then to open yourself up to criticism for it--that can be very painful.

 

[Lilly]

Originally posted by U2Bama:
That was the reason for the dream, don't you think?

O yeah I KNOW that was the purpose of the dream! I was really more of a religious cynic until maybe September this year when I had this dream. Just trying to say that it's hard to believe until you've experienced.

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"Why do you have to be such a smart ass?" -my mom

 

[joyfulgirl]

Anthony, I had a similar experience the day before my best friend went into the hospital to have a persistent cough checked out. I didn't even know he was sick, but his death (a month later) was forecast in a lucid, comforting, dream the day before. I have heard so many stories like this in relation to losing a loved one. It's really remarkable.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

I have every intention to continue my hiatus from the forum, seeing that it's actually allowed me to have quite a bit more free time.

True, I have occasionally glanced through the latest threads, finding a dozen conflicting rumors about the new U2 album(s) and finding a few threads in Free Your Mind that are actually quite interesting. But, I have refrained from posting any replies; I haven't seen the overwhelming need to say my peace, and I'm honestly enjoying the break.

But I believe this thread is far too historic NOT to address. After all, it's not every day that a forum member tells the rest of us about "a very personal and specific message" from the Lord God Almighty.

Melon, I'm begging you on the behalf of the entire forum: please, tell us what God told you!

Did He suggest that maybe - just maybe - you are not the final authority on who is to be condemned and who is to be redeemed? That it's not your place as a human or a CHRISTIAN to assert that Jesse Helms "deserves no compassion", "deserves to rot in hell for all eternity", and is "beyond evil"? Or, at least, that he who is without sin should cast the first stone?

Did He perhaps mention that maybe you are not wise enough to say with authority what parts of the Bible, if any, should be discarded? Or did He at least find it a bit harsh that you would call one who disagrees with you a Pharisee?

Or did He possibly bring up this thread? Did He perhaps remind you of the old adage that, if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all? Or did He at least instill in you a sense of shame for being so cowardly as to say all this AFTER I parted? Did He remind you that you accused me of "personal attacks" AND engaged in personal attacks yourself, AGAIN associating me with the Pharisees?

Or did He notice the little fact that your first of MANY personal attacks in that thread was posted on March 22nd, at 3:46 pm, only SEVEN MINUTES before this little gem:

Originally posted by melon:
I work "BUBBA." Something that you don't seem to do. I really don't know where you get all this time to post.

Did He perhaps bring up the hypocrisy of claiming to be too busy to explain why conservatives are Nazi's but still having PLENTY of time to single out and tear apart one a fellow human being?

I'm just so very curious what God Almighty had to say to you.

Not that I'm suggesting that you're deluding yourself or this forum with such an incredible claim. God doesn't reveal Himself to JUST perfectly saintly people. After all, God spoke to Moses while he was still an exiled murderer, and Christ revealed Himself to Paul while he yet persecuted Christians.

(Assuming, of course, that those parts of the Bible are the least bit believable.)

What I find amazing is that God told you what to do, sharing with you His wisdom on morality and giving you "a very personal and specific message" - and not the other way around. After all, He had an audience with MELON! Shouldn't He have asked you for advice?

 

[U2Bama]

Bubba:

I agree with you on many political and spiritual issues (but not Alabama-Auburn football); however, I thought this was a very good-natured thread until you posted that. What was the point?

~U2Alabama

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Payback.

 

[TheU2]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
Payback.

RICHARD!

CK

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

Originally posted by Achtung Bubba:
Payback.

I agree with Bama, it's nice to see you back Bubba, but NOT this way. Get F_____ real man, okay! This is a good non-partisan thread, a good thread where maybe Melon has some serious questions of/about the Almighty! Don't ruin it. He's already heard enough about Helms and other s___ from me in another thread, don't bring THAT here.

This is a CHEAP SHOT and a sorry way for you to "return"!

Sorry bro, just be real

[This message has been edited by LOVE MUSCLE (edited 04-10-2002).]

 

[Achtung Bubba]

No less cheap than Melon attacking me only AFTER I left. At the very least, I'm being a little less cowardly about it.

Truly, this wasn't a thread involving partisan politics, but neither was my announcement to leave. That was merely an attempt to encourage those who, I believe, are debating the right side of the issues; Melon turned that thread into a vicious attack against me personally.

(Oh, I know, I know: This is "yet another instance of the Rushist attacker/victim 'role reversals.'" But I dare ANYONE to claim that Melon's comments were anything short of vicious.)

Besides, one of the last times *I* tried to talk about God, Melon called me a Pharisee. REPEATEDLY, and unapologetically.


[This message has been edited by Achtung Bubba (edited 04-10-2002).]

 

[LOVE MUSCLE]

Regardless of what happened, two wrongs NEVER make a right. This is a "clean" thread, keep it that way please.

You are free to talk about GOD in this thread.

Your arguement belongs elsewhere, brother.

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by LOVE MUSCLE:
Regardless of what happened, two wrongs NEVER make a right. This is a "clean" thread, keep it that way please.

You are free to talk about GOD in this thread.

Your arguement belongs elsewhere, brother.

<sigh>

You are absolutely correct that two wrongs don't make a right. My outburst was not very civilized, not appropriate for this thread, and - worst of all - not at all obedient to the commands of Christ.

I sincerely apologize.

I'm now returning to my vacation from this thread with this last request:

Melon, when I return, I will do my very best to keep any discussions with you civil, and to keep them to a bare minumum. I BEG you to do the same.

 

[Anthony]

"But why? WHY do you think that you are God?"
"Because man, its bloody simple; when I talk to God, I answer back!" - MONTY PYTHON.

I do believe that we can communicate with God, I believe this is so everytime one meditates profoundly and then visists places that some of you mentioned in dreams, it happens in meditation as well. I do believe that God speaks through us through our lives, It has done it many many times with me in the greatest and gravest moments of my life.

The night my fiance died, I was at home. I had been in the hospital overnight for four days in a row already, and her family insisted that I go and relax and take a shower (I was told I needed one badly, hehe)and come back later on. She was actually showing an improvement from what had been a terrible period in her treatment, and had apparently been 'stabilised'. Sure, we all knew she was going to leave us, but we all (including the doctors) honestly thought that after this period she could come home and last for a few more weeks atleast.

So I went home and had a shower, and went to watch some TV before heading back. Unfortunately, because I hadn't slept in over five days, I was dead tired and I fell asleep almost instantly when my head found the pillow. I slept and I dreamt. In the dream I was in the room I was sleeping in, but for some reason I was doing something stupid like checking my accounts or some unbelievably trivial thing when Sam (my fiance) entered the room, but she wasn't sick. I can remember feeling shocked, and then remembering that I had to run back to the hospital, but I simulatenously acknowledged that she was here, no longer in pain and cured. I cried my eyes out right there on the table before I had enough courage to approach her, it was only until I held her (and it seemed ages until that happened)that I realised that she wasn't responding in any way, she was just standing there like a model. I held her tightly and even tighter, until she spoke; "its alright now. You can go. Go." She kept repeating this and for some reason I knew that this wasn't her; a ghost, spirit, God... who knew? I certainly didn't and I was shocked and yet struck by grief. I cried in the dream and I woke up crying, and I pretty much drove to the hospital crying; knowing but at the same time not knowing, grieving but at the same time hoping. I had been an hour late. Her parents had called me when she had started to go, but I honestly didn't hear the phone ring at all. I was too much asleep.

The strange thing is, I missed her and was late, but somehow, I don't feel that I did miss her completely. Strange.

I do believe that God speaks through us, whether we are capable of recognising and understanding It, is another question.

Ant.

 

[Calluna]

Bubba,

I certainly hope that apology was sincere because you are clearly in the wrong here. You have alot of nerve coming into this thread and attacking melon that way. You are guilty of all the things you accuse him of. Funny you should mention that thing about let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You should take that advice to heart.

I hope you have a nice, long, extended vacation from the forum. It has been much more peaceful here since you left. Feel free to make that vacation a permanent one.

 

[DrTeeth]

There's no need to stab people in the back like that Calluna. Bubba apologized now let it be...

 

[Achtung Bubba]

Originally posted by Calluna:
Bubba,

I certainly hope that apology was sincere because you are clearly in the wrong here. You have alot of nerve coming into this thread and attacking melon that way. You are guilty of all the things you accuse him of. Funny you should mention that thing about let he who is without sin cast the first stone. You should take that advice to heart.

I hope you have a nice, long, extended vacation from the forum. It has been much more peaceful here since you left. Feel free to make that vacation a permanent one.

You can say that I myself am guilty of incivility in this forum, but I'm not guilty of the SAME offenses. You say, "You are guilty of all the things you accuse him of." That's simply NOT true.

I admit that I have called people by offensive names - suggesting that pacifists are terrorist sympathisizers, calling Michael Moore an idiot, tying liberalism to Communism, and calling chain an asshole. But each time, I recanted or defended what I said. Unlike melon and his use of the word "NAZI," I NEVER suggested that I was simply too busy to defend my outrageous claims, nor did I demonstrate the rank hypocrisy of claiming to be too busy to explain myself and SIMULTANEOUSLY having more than enough time to attack another forum member.

Furthermore, while I have called people idiots and assholes, I have NEVER suggested that ANYONE on this planet is so evil as to be beyond divine redemption. (Fact is, I believe some people ARE idiots, people who are very foolish or at least very misguided; but I also believe that everyone - Michael Moore, melon, LITERALLY everyone - is offered the free gift of salvation through Christ.) That is another thing that distinguishes me from melon, and THAT is where "casting the first stone" comes into play.

(Also, I recall melon actually claiming to laugh at the thought of conservative Christian couples actually getting a divorce, another level of mean-spiritedness to which I do not stoop.)

Most importantly, when I called chain an asshole and attacked melon here, I did so under the full assumption that both would eventually read what I said. Rather than wait until they were believed to be gone or make some sly disparaging comment, I made the comment directly, again, unlike Melon.

I live by an old adage: If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all. But if you must say something mean, have the cajones to say it to the guy's face. To do otherwise is an act of cowardice.

You are right that I "have a lot of nerve" making such an attack. Melon should have shown an equal amount of nerve when attacking me.

Finally, I must ask: where were you when melon attacks other people, forum members and otherwise? You certainly didn't criticize HIM for attacking me, and you were eerily silent when melon called Jesse Helms "beyond evil".

In fact, I can't recall a single time you've criticized melon, despite the fact that he is AT LEAST as abrasive as me.

If you were honest with yourself and this forum, you would mention how much MORE peaceful this forum would be if Melon also took a vacation.

And you're probably right, my absence has likely made this forum more peaceful (not counting melon's attack of Jesse Helms; after all, he's a conservative, so why should HE count?).

But it has also resulted in me wasting much less time dealing with people like you. And that sounds like a good deal for all involved.

Unless anyone else wants to lie about me, I'm back on vacation.

 

[U2Bama]

Calluna:

Why did you have to do that? I thought this was all going to go away after Bubba issued his apology. PLEASE EVERYONE LET IT GO AWAY. I don't care what your views, opinions, politics, hates, loves, likes, dislikes are.

~U2Alabama

 

[Spiral_Staircase]

Unbelievable.

Anyway, back to talking with God....Yeah, I definitely believe it. I don't know if we always recognize it, but I know it happens.

 

[melon]

I am bigger than this and am not going to stoop to your level. I am forwarding this thread to Sicy, where I will let her take whatever action she sees as necessary. If that means "nothing," then I will leave it at that.

Melon

------------------
"Still, I never understood the elevation of greed as a political credo. Why would anyone want to base a political programme on bottomless dissatisfaction and the impossibility of happiness? Perhaps that was its appeal: the promise of luxury that in fact promoted endless work." - Hanif Kureishi, Intimacy

[This message has been edited by melon (edited 04-11-2002).]

 

[DrTeeth]

You're telling?