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Old 02-11-2004, 08:37 AM   #1
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$216,900 speeding ticket

Finnish Police Give Record Speeding Fine
Tue Feb 10,12:49 PM ET Add Top Stories - AP to My Yahoo!


HELSINKI, Finland - Police gave a record $216,900 speeding ticket to a millionaire under a system in which traffic fines are linked to an offender's income.



The Iltalehti tabloid reported that millionaire Jussi Salonoja zoomed through the city center last weekend in a 25 mph zone and police handed him a ticket of $216,900. It didn't say what his speed was.

The fine was based on information they got directly for the inland revenue office, the Tuesday report said.

Salonoja, 27, could not be reached for comment, and police declined to discuss the alleged speeding incident until it reaches the Helsinki Regional Court at a later date.

Although it's the costliest ticket to date, it's not the first with a big price tag.

Two years ago, Anssi Vanjoki, then executive vice president of Nokia (news - web sites)'s mobile phones division, landed a $148,000 ticket after being caught doing 46 mph in a 31 mph zone on a motorcycle.

It was later lowered to about $7,500 after he showed a court that his income had dropped, but not before Finns flew into a rage over the high fine. But, after weeks of Parliament debates, discussions on TV shows and expressions of disgust in the media, Finns did nothing and the system remained.

Other hefty speeding tickets have included a $71,000 one for a professional hockey player and one for $190,000 given to one of Finland's wealthiest people.
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Old 02-11-2004, 08:43 AM   #2
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A great system to drive wealthy people out of your country.
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Old 02-11-2004, 08:43 AM   #3
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Actaully there's soemthign to this system. A $200 ticket means one heck of a lot more to someone with a $30-50,000 yearly income as opposed to someone making $500,000. But then again I also belive in wealth redistribution and graduated income tax.
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Old 02-11-2004, 08:51 AM   #4
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I agree in theory. Though is a person speeding 20 k's over the limit on $200,000 a year more of an offence than someone doing 20 k's over the limit who earns $50,000?
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:02 AM   #5
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No I guess not, but if you hold the opinion that punishing are prevention is an integral part of a fine, than this might be the way to go. As Blacksword said, a 500,- fine doesn't mean much to someone who makes that amount of money in an hour.
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:05 AM   #6
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But wealthy people don't get wealthy by throwing their money away. It is a misnomer to think a fine "doesn't mean much" just because a person is wealthy.
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:08 AM   #7
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I agree in theory, but I think that many of us wouldn't be that upset if we got a $2,- speedingticket. I know I wouldn't.
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:11 AM   #8
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That raises the question then if fines are actually a deterrant. Most people I've spoken to who've had them still somehow manage to get annoyed at the police who issue them, rather than take responsibility and admit they were in the wrong in the first place. I guess it depends on the individual too, so this might not be fair or accurate. I've never actually had one, but I reckon I would be quite ashamed if I did ever get pulled over. It's not about the money as such. It's the being stupid enough to speed in the first place.
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Old 02-11-2004, 09:12 AM   #9
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^that was to your reply 2 posts above that Dr T lol...it doesn't make sense now
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Old 02-11-2004, 10:33 AM   #10
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Yeah, does this do more to prevent speeding in Finland and other countries? Maybe they should have a plebicite.
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Old 02-11-2004, 11:48 AM   #11
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For the record, he apparently drove 80 km/h where only 40 km/h was permitted.
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Old 02-11-2004, 01:12 PM   #12
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Sure works better than a system like ours in which wealthy people are often simply let off the hook.

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Old 02-11-2004, 01:22 PM   #13
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I never knew that. At what income level are you let off the hook?
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Old 02-11-2004, 01:30 PM   #14
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nbc




perhaps, money and influence

Your President got at least one drunk driving ticket expunged, most likely a lot more violations.
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Old 02-11-2004, 03:31 PM   #15
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I love how the middle to lower classes defend the mega wealthy, when the mega wealthy doesn't give a damn about either of them. Abbott Laboratories just raised the price of one of its AIDS drugs 400% for no other reason than greed. So why should we care if some wealthy asshole with a lead foot pays $217,000 for a speeding ticket? Good! I'm very glad, and I wish we had this system in the United States. Maybe we'd have less speeders, and if we could do something like this from everything from FCC indecency fines to accounting fraud, maybe the mega wealthy would finally have an incentive to actually follow the law. As it stands, much of the time, it is more economically viable to break the law and pay the fine.

But, back to the lower and middle classes defending the upper classes, even though the favor is never returned, I guess that's where the Marxist idea of "dominant hegemony" comes into play. How utterly sick and sad.

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Old 02-11-2004, 04:43 PM   #16
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I think we can disagree with a principle of penalizing people based on their income without turning this into class warfare.

The law has a mechanism for punishing based on income - punitive damages.
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Old 02-12-2004, 09:03 AM   #17
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Not sure who you are referring to that has turned this into "class warefare". Discussing class and its injustices is necessary if we're really going to speak for the poor and feel and clothe them, as Christ insists His followers do.

Also, I agree with the posts above which give concrete examples of the wealthy getting the more lenient side of the justice system. Want a couple more? OJ. Ken Lay. The SNL Guys (remember that early corporate scandle?). Thus to answer your question to me, I'd have to say I'm not sure precisely, but it would have to involve six figures.

Cheers,
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PS Melon, really enjoyed your post
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Old 02-12-2004, 07:48 PM   #18
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nice post melon



I think the point of this speeding law is to discourage the wealthy from speeding. If they enjoy speeding, they won't care if they get a 50 or 100 dollar ticket because it won't have any economic impact on them. Sure there are some wealthy that are penny pinchers and aren't willing to risk the small fine, but I think that the majority don't care. Most people don't become wealthy though "not throwing money away". MOST people become wealthy through inheritance or luck. Most won't scrimp when it comes do doing what they want to do and buying what they want to buy, if this were the case they wouldn't have 10 cars or vacation in the hamptons. They are willing to scrimp on things that don't effect them (ie workers salaries and benefits).

It'll be interesting to see whether or not this policy is effective.
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Old 02-13-2004, 12:02 PM   #19
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I prefer the german system here, depending on how fast you are you get either a "money only" fine, then if you drive faster your driverslicence isn't valid for a month or a 1/4 year. If you are even faster, they take your driverslicence and you have to pass a psychological test to be able to get your driverslicence again.

Another interesting idea would be to start with low fines and double them every time you do the same thing (speeding)

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Old 02-13-2004, 05:41 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by nbcrusader
But wealthy people don't get wealthy by throwing their money away. It is a misnomer to think a fine "doesn't mean much" just because a person is wealthy.
Agreed.

I work with a Millionaire who is the tightest bastard you will ever meet. We had an International Condom Day celebration at work this week and everyone was asked to bring in some condiments/something to put in a sandwich. Most of us managed to bring some bread or salad or condiments or something. Not the millionaire. Didnt bring anything at all AND he has a vegie patch in his backyard so its not like it would cost him anything. </rant about bastard colleague who stuffed something up at work yesterday, dumped it on me to solve, and went home at 1:30pm and Im still absolutely seething, dreaming of shoving a lead canister up said millionaires butt.>

I think percentage of income fines sounds like an excellent idea. But then I believe in percentage of income taxes as well - let the poor pay less and the rich pay more (and actually PAY their taxes not get around it legally). Gawd Im ranting this morning. I think I will shut up now .
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