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Old 10-20-2016, 01:58 AM   #901
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US Democrats/liberals can't have it both ways.

In the one hand we are invited to believe:

(1) GOP = terribly bad peeps

AND, on the other hand, also

(2) Because Trump is criticised by some GOP'rs, THEN that means that Trump must be dreadful.

There seems to be a bit of a logical failure here, wouldn't you have thought? You seem to be suggesting that conservatives are terrible if they vote for Trump, but that they're lovely people when they criticise Trump.

Also, as a matter of interest can you explain why it is that you think that you have the right to speak for the 'global stage' (whatever the 'global stage' even means)?
To your first point: With regard to elected officials, I have regard for some GOPs, not so much for others, but my point was, the GOP has hated Hillary for 25 years, you'd think they'd rally around anyone running against her, but Trump is so toxic to their own political fortunes that he can't even unify the party against Hillary. Part of that is he's said and done a bunch of unsavory, to say the least, things that have made it politically difficult for elected Republicans to support him. Part of that is that he's not even, on an ideological level, convincing as a conservative to a lot of them. The end result is that even with what you'd think would be the easiest opponent to rally the party against, he's had the opposite effect.

To your second point: I'm not speaking for anyone. I'm just stating my observation that on the occasions when I've seen non-Americans state their opinions, here and elsewhere, they've almost uniformly been aghast that one of our major political parties has nominated this guy for our highest office.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:23 AM   #902
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This site is not a democracy.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:24 AM   #903
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Yeah, everybody I talk to in Australia and New Zealand, even those who vote for our right-wing parties, is basically crossing their fingers and hoping Hillary wins. A victory by the orange fascist is unthinkable.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:34 AM   #904
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread XIV: May This Entertainment Never End

The only thing I didn't get out of the third debate was Trump giving into his id fully and calling Hillary a bitch on national television. He came perilously close, settling on "nasty woman," but tonight wasn't the night.
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Old 10-20-2016, 02:35 AM   #905
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Yeah, everybody I talk to in Australia and New Zealand, even those who vote for our right-wing parties, is basically crossing their fingers and hoping Hillary wins. A victory by the orange fascist is unthinkable.
Hillary does of course fit in very comfortably with our right wing parties.
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Old 10-20-2016, 03:05 AM   #906
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Hillary does of course fit in very comfortably with our right wing parties.
I can assure you, it's not Sting.
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Old 10-20-2016, 04:19 AM   #907
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Hillary does of course fit in very comfortably with our right wing parties.

She is what a modern conservative should look like imo. Although I think she'd be much more at home in the ALP rather than the Libs.

I find it hard to be objective about her because Trump is just so bad. There are a lot of things I just skim over... were she running against Kasich or something...


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Old 10-20-2016, 05:20 AM   #908
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Yeah it's kind of hard to say where Hillary would fall, whether she'd end up with Rudd on the ALP Right or with Turnbull as a moderate Lib.

Actually, you know where would (rather appropriately) suit her? The original, Don Chipp-era Democrats, before they became home to the people who are today's moderate Greens.
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Old 10-20-2016, 05:48 AM   #909
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The new alter doesn't seem to understand the first amendment.


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Old 10-20-2016, 05:56 AM   #910
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I'm not entirely sure Trumpists understand the damage that his refusal to accept the results does to the country and perceptions abroad.

Of course they don't.

Science, media, elections; it's all a rigged game. This is what gave us Trump in the first place.


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Old 10-20-2016, 06:49 AM   #911
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Yeah it's kind of hard to say where Hillary would fall, whether she'd end up with Rudd on the ALP Right or with Turnbull as a moderate Lib.

Actually, you know where would (rather appropriately) suit her? The original, Don Chipp-era Democrats, before they became home to the people who are today's moderate Greens.
I was almost going to say something like that. Definitely late seventies era Democrats. If she were born here she'd be a Don Chipp Girl.
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:50 AM   #912
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Mr. Crowley, what went on in your head?
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Old 10-20-2016, 07:55 AM   #913
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There seems to be a bit of a logical failure here, wouldn't you have thought? You seem to be suggesting that conservatives are terrible if they vote for Trump, but that they're lovely people when they criticise Trump.

That's quite the simpleton take on what he or anyone's said.

I can't speak to how lovely they are, but it does seem to weed out those that are principled, or at least consistent. With the exception of mentioning that wall you've all been fantasizing about for decades, he's everything you've been railing against for the last 8 years. Everything you pretended Obama was, Donald is...



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Old 10-20-2016, 09:21 AM   #914
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When doing job interviews, you often come across the "yea, but" candidates. They have all the necessary job experience, knowledge and background; but there's a few red flags that give you pause. They're fine, but you'd really hope that a better candidate comes along. This is Hillary Clinton.

You also come across candidates where you read their resume, and you toss it out because the person is woefully unqualified for the specific position at hand. This is Donald Trump.

This is our choice.
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Old 10-20-2016, 09:26 AM   #915
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Hilary Clinton's flaws should make everyone hate Trump even more, for not giving us a serious consideration.

Heck, for anyone who wanted an "outsider," you can hate Trump *even more* for ruining that idea.
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Old 10-20-2016, 10:06 AM   #916
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Heck, for anyone who wanted an "outsider," you can hate Trump *even more* for ruining that idea.
Oh, and how I do. So so much.

That idea is ruined for the foreseeable future.
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Old 10-20-2016, 11:08 AM   #917
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It really should be pretty simple right?

Trump has ZERO experience. None. He's never governed. He doesn't have any education or work in law. He doesn't have any experience with foreign nations, other than celebrity/charity/golf events.

I do not understand why we would want someone with zero experience to run one of the most complex, powerful countries our society has ever seen. I get the anger and frustration, and general apathy towards our elected officials. If you're upset with your doctor, you don't ask for someone who's had no experience in medicine to treat you. You go to another doctor, even if there's a risk that they could be as bad as the previous one you went to.

I feel like this is what happens when we lose the art of compromise. Liberals and Conservatives cannot get a pure ideology passed when half the country doesn't agree to it. So where is the middle ground?

Until we find a way back to working with each other, I can't see the atmosphere really improving much. We'll still progress forward with Hillary, and that's primarily civil and human rights. I have no idea how the economy will do with her, but imagine it'll be somewhere between W and Obama. Peaks and Valleys.

I don't see her pushing us into another war, though it's looking like we could be going towards some sort of "chill war" with Russia, if we aren't already there. I lean towards her continuing the Drone program that Obama has used, and I'm still torn on that program. I do not see us invading other middle east countries, mainly because I think she's smart enough to learn from past mistakes, Libya, and treat the region a bit differently going forward.

I don't think it'd happen, but I'd love to see Military spending cut to free up spending on social and infrastructure programs. She has talked about fixing the problem areas of ACA, but I don't know if that would even happen if D's controlled both houses.

I am curious to see how her four years go before the next election.
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Old 10-20-2016, 01:23 PM   #918
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It really should be pretty simple right?

Trump has ZERO experience. None. He's never governed. He doesn't have any education or work in law. He doesn't have any experience with foreign nations, other than celebrity/charity/golf events.

I do not understand why we would want someone with zero experience to run one of the most complex, powerful countries our society has ever seen. I get the anger and frustration, and general apathy towards our elected officials. If you're upset with your doctor, you don't ask for someone who's had no experience in medicine to treat you. You go to another doctor, even if there's a risk that they could be as bad as the previous one you went to.

I feel like this is what happens when we lose the art of compromise. Liberals and Conservatives cannot get a pure ideology passed when half the country doesn't agree to it. So where is the middle ground?

Until we find a way back to working with each other, I can't see the atmosphere really improving much. We'll still progress forward with Hillary, and that's primarily civil and human rights. I have no idea how the economy will do with her, but imagine it'll be somewhere between W and Obama. Peaks and Valleys.

I don't see her pushing us into another war, though it's looking like we could be going towards some sort of "chill war" with Russia, if we aren't already there. I lean towards her continuing the Drone program that Obama has used, and I'm still torn on that program. I do not see us invading other middle east countries, mainly because I think she's smart enough to learn from past mistakes, Libya, and treat the region a bit differently going forward.

I don't think it'd happen, but I'd love to see Military spending cut to free up spending on social and infrastructure programs. She has talked about fixing the problem areas of ACA, but I don't know if that would even happen if D's controlled both houses.

I am curious to see how her four years go before the next election.
See... I would vote for a non politician businessperson as President. I don't believe you must be a career politician to do the job.

I don't disqualify Trump because he's not a politician. I disqualify him because he's a terrible businessman. He's a con man. I give him credit for that... he's great at being a con man. But he's a terrible businessman.

Then layer on the racism, sexism, xenophobia, outrageous and dangerous statements regarding foreign agents, nuclear weapons and the foundations of our democracy, and a temperament akin to that of a toddlee and you end up with the worst major party candidate in our history.

Hillary may indeed be corrupt. We'll find out soon enough. Donald Trump is the most dangerous presidential candidate in our history.
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Old 10-20-2016, 01:50 PM   #919
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What did I miss? What were the hot points?
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Old 10-20-2016, 01:52 PM   #920
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What did I miss? What were the hot points?

Clinton: "if I could get a minute to describe -- "
Trump: " -- you can't"
~Clinton continues speaking~

Waste of a debate, you missed nothing. It wasn't even funny this time. At this point I just want him to go away.
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