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Old 10-18-2016, 12:41 PM   #801
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread XIV: May This Entertainment Never End

Quote:
Originally Posted by gump View Post
Come on, this is not too hard. You are subsuming individuals into groups, and by doing this you essentially overlook their own individuality identity.



You presume that there is such a thing as the "Muslim community" that is and stands as one entity. Or a unified gay community that stands and thinks as one. Bias and discrimination - particularly of the subconscious kind - usually start by a process of deindividualization. Which is why you hear people asking the [insert minority here] community to act as one, whereas the very idea of a "white community" doesn't even make sense. Because the latter is treated as a collection of individuals with their own views, emotions and motivations, not as a unified group that needs to take a "stand" vis-a-vis others.

Come on? You just basically accused me of effectively blaming muslims for jihadist actions. Are you serious?


Whether you like it or not, [insert minority here] will be perceived as a group. And perception is all that's relevant when it comes to higher order actions like this. You can cross your arms and demand individuality, but that doesn't help fix anything. Are you a minority of any sort? Maybe you think I think "the Muslim community" refers to a gathering of everyone Muslim. Maybe you think I think "the gay community" refers to everyone who shows up to a pride parade. Maybe you don't fundamentally understand what "community" means in this context. Using "community" in this context isn't "overlooking individual identity." Community in this context very literally encompasses the diverse cultures and subcultures from within a very broad group of people. I've in no way implied that one speaks for all, whatsoever. This is the very point of the use of the "Muslim community" term. Muslims of all sorts and all kinds don't want to have terrorists and jihadists incorporated into their collective "community." Just like liberals don't want someone who fucking bombed a political institution for being racist in their "community."


And please don't ever fucking tell me about the gay community.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:29 PM   #802
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
I’ve been searching this thread on Hillary Clinton and corruption and have not found any discussions going on. Maybe I missed it somewhere.

For the first time since Ronald Reagan I will be voting for the Republican candidate for president. I agree Donald Trump has flaws. He is far from perfect but compared to Hillary Clinton, he appears almost like a saint.
That's because nobody from the Trump side of things has shown their face in here since before the Billy Bush tapes...

But there has been plenty of talk of Hillary corruption from non Republicans.

There are plenty of people who plan to vote for Hillary based solely on her being the lesser of two (or four) evils. I count myself in that category.

But there hasn't been anyone to actually defend Trump's actions and words and present an argument on why he's the lesser of two evils in a while... so please, by all means, step right up.

Reality is this is an election in which the Republicans could have walked to victory. The only way they could lose is to put forth a candidate so vile, so unbelievably and obviously unqualified for the job that there'd be no choice but to overlook Clinton's many flaws and vote for her.

And low and behold, that's exactly what they did.

If the GOP hadn't become a clown car in a dumpster fire, they'd be looking at a distinct possibility of owning all three branches, what with the potential restructuring of the supreme court over the next couple of years.

Instead, they're looking at extinction.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:36 PM   #803
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
There are plenty of people who plan to vote for Hillary based solely on her being the lesser of two (or four) evils. I count myself in that category.
Being a citizen of what is shaking out to be a particularly blue state this time around, I want to exercise my right to vote for a third party, but it's just not happening. Ganja Gary has fallen off the deep end and the more I read about Jill Stein, the less enthused I am about her.

I may vote for Hillary just to really nail home that I didn't vote for Trump.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:51 PM   #804
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If there was a viable third option I would easily cast my vote in that direction. A well funded independent who could speak to moderates on both sides could have made things very interesting.


I wonder if Mike Bloomberg sometimes looks at what has become of this election and regrets his decision not to run. He may have been able to deny either candidate the ability to obtain 270, and things could have gotten very interesting in the House with all of the Republican defectors from Trump.

Ultimately though if it came to it the NRA would threaten Republican senators and Trump would have won in the House after all, so it's likely he made the correct call by sitting this one out.
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Old 10-18-2016, 01:59 PM   #805
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post

For the first time since Ronald Reagan I will be voting for the Republican candidate for president. I agree Donald Trump has flaws. He is far from perfect but compared to Hillary Clinton, he appears almost like a saint.
Sure, when you read the sorts of sources that you do regularly.
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:07 PM   #806
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Sure, when you read the sorts of sources that you do regularly.

THIS


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Old 10-18-2016, 02:39 PM   #807
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(Post deleted. Please refrain from personal attacks.)
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Old 10-18-2016, 02:48 PM   #808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
If there was a viable third option I would easily cast my vote in that direction. A well funded independent who could speak to moderates on both sides could have made things very interesting.


I wonder if Mike Bloomberg sometimes looks at what has become of this election and regrets his decision not to run. He may have been able to deny either candidate the ability to obtain 270, and things could have gotten very interesting in the House with all of the Republican defectors from Trump.

Ultimately though if it came to it the NRA would threaten Republican senators and Trump would have won in the House after all, so it's likely he made the correct call by sitting this one out.
Just wait and see what happens to the GOP after this election. I think you'll start getting more "outsiders" coming into the party, a la Tea Party years ago. They'll fracture even more, and eventually there may become a 3rd Party of old school GOP lawmakers.

Not sure if something like that will happen with the Dems, as in will more socialist/Bernie type candidates start running under the D label, continuing this "movement" that Bernie started?

I think it's less likely
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:33 PM   #809
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Wow, Trump's average has dropped below 40% again.

Time for some scorched earth goodness in debate #3.
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:41 PM   #810
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Should make for some entertaining viewing.
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Old 10-18-2016, 03:47 PM   #811
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I'm surprised there wasn't some other big scandal leak before the debate this time.
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:06 PM   #812
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Day isn't over
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Old 10-18-2016, 04:19 PM   #813
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Originally Posted by Hewson View Post
Should make for some entertaining intensely uncomfortable viewing.
Fixed.
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:11 PM   #814
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Dieman since I know you arew in here alot...

I can't seem to log into site on my tablet! It started without warning about ?5 weeks ago I texted a friend from I-land to ask her to ask what might be wrong. So she and otther friends in other thread suggested I clear my cookies and cache.

I did... it worked.. once.

DId same procedure many oher times since then with no luck.
I'm on here now because I am using the library's computer!


If you come up with anything please answer me in Plebans - since our thread is slow now I'm sure to see answer a few days after you post it there.

(It's why I haen't commented on anything in these past weeks).

thanks to you and anyone else for help!
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Old 10-18-2016, 07:15 PM   #815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BVS View Post
We've had several threads, so yeah, you missed it.





This is so sad, on so many levels. I mean I know where it comes from, and a Mack truck full of facts could hit you and you still wouldn't see it, but it's just sad.

Yeah Hillary is flawed, but Trump is dangerous.

A serial fabricator
An authoritarian
An assailant
He won't take nuking Europe off the table
He wants to remove bases from countries unless they pay him
He wants to track people of certain religions


But oh yeah Benghazi and the 13 Republican lead investigations that couldn't come up with anything


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ANd don't forget that the Republicans would NOT increase funding for security in Bhengazi BEFORE that slaughter happened! They kept pleading...but ...nope .
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:21 PM   #816
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I didn't realise the third debate was this soon.

LN7, in short, I'm giving to everything Gump has said. (I also don't think he was being patronising when he mentioned the gay community.)

You said in your original post that "muslims have a responsibility to help show people that they're normal people just like everyone else".

We're saying that absofuckinglutely do not have that responsibility. Or they shouldn't have. If they choose to do that, great. But it is pretty asinine to say that they have a responsibility to prove to all us racist white people that they don't like terrorism. It should be OUR fucking responsibility to reach out and try to be more inclusive. The onus should NEVER, ever be on a minority group to take responsibility to prove they're good people after something bad is done by someone who claims they're also of that minority. Never.

Because as a white person, if a fellow white person, or fellow white man, does something awful, I never have to come out and say "oh hey we're not all bad". It's taken as granted.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:25 PM   #817
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
I didn't realise the third debate was this soon.

LN7, in short, I'm giving to everything Gump has said. (I also don't think he was being patronising when he mentioned the gay community.)

You said in your original post that "muslims have a responsibility to help show people that they're normal people just like everyone else".

We're saying that absofuckinglutely do not have that responsibility. Or they shouldn't have. If they choose to do that, great. But it is pretty asinine to say that they have a responsibility to prove to all us racist white people that they don't like terrorism. It should be OUR fucking responsibility to reach out and try to be more inclusive. The onus should NEVER, ever be on a minority group to take responsibility to prove they're good people after something bad is done by someone who claims they're also of that minority. Never.

Because as a white person, if a fellow white person, or fellow white man, does something awful, I never have to come out and say "oh hey we're not all bad". It's taken as granted.
Completely agreed on all of this.
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:36 PM   #818
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Old 10-18-2016, 08:56 PM   #819
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cobl04 View Post
I didn't realise the third debate was this soon.



LN7, in short, I'm giving to everything Gump has said. (I also don't think he was being patronising when he mentioned the gay community.)



You said in your original post that "muslims have a responsibility to help show people that they're normal people just like everyone else".



We're saying that absofuckinglutely do not have that responsibility. Or they shouldn't have. If they choose to do that, great. But it is pretty asinine to say that they have a responsibility to prove to all us racist white people that they don't like terrorism. It should be OUR fucking responsibility to reach out and try to be more inclusive. The onus should NEVER, ever be on a minority group to take responsibility to prove they're good people after something bad is done by someone who claims they're also of that minority. Never.



Because as a white person, if a fellow white person, or fellow white man, does something awful, I never have to come out and say "oh hey we're not all bad". It's taken as granted.

He never means to be patronizing, he just can't help it. Sort of like the last time when he told me I didn't know what I was talking about in regards to my own family origins

I never said anyone had to "prove" themselves. Yes, WE have a responsibility. Every community who wants it to change has a responsibility to do their part. The mistake you're making here is that much like gump, you think you can inherently speak for them because of your understanding of them. But you can't ever actually fully understand them, because you're not them. The best you can do is do your part. Everyone has a part, from a broad perspective.

That doesn't mean every individual. That means every general perspective. Your point about white people doesn't mean anything. White people are fully accepted by the majority because they are the majority.
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Old 10-18-2016, 09:16 PM   #820
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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
The mistake you're making here is that much like gump, you think you can inherently speak for them because of your understanding of them. But you can't ever actually fully understand them, because you're not them.
as someone who is part of "the LGBT community", all i have to say is that you couldn't be more wrong about this, and i'm a bit surprised to hear you take such an exclusionary tone.
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