2016 US Presidential Election Thread XIV: May This Entertainment Never End

[martha]

But doesn't everyone, average religious people included, have an obligation to think critically and evaluate the veracity of what any political party tells them? Political affiliation really is a choice, so by choosing a party, a candidate, a position, one chooses to embrace that position and all it encompasses. If that candidate or position results on harm to others, then one bears some responsiblity for that harm.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[martha]

Simultaneous posts say essentially the same thing.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[bono_212]

And I get what the both of you are saying, believe me. I came in kinda hot today, but it's just out of a feeling of helplessness more than anything.

I don't think it's *quite* as simple as we'd like for it to be, to just say to a person, THINK FOR YOURSELF, though, especially when religious manipulation is involved.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by DaveC

the way a person votes doesn't affect their value as a person, to me.

If you vote Trump, or UKIP, or Golden Dawn, or Front National, or One Nation, or similar, yes, I will judge you negatively for that.

People who willingly give support to racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, authoritarian, fascist or quasi-fascist movements deserve no sympathy.

I should note, I would have no problem if Democrats were raising money to support the family of a hypothetical Republican congressional candidate with a kid who has some rare illness that is eye-wateringly expensive to treat. That would be a welcome show of non-partisan generosity. But actively helping a particularly unpleasant wing of the enemy continue their war on women, minorities, and many achievements that took decades or centuries to accomplish? I cannot justify that.

[LuckyNumber7]

I think you're missing the point. This wasn't a hurricane or some act of nature.

"The radical left" just bombed the opposition.

"The moderate left" has a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with this "radical left." The fact that the republicans don't do this are part of why they suck so much.

[Axver]

Do we actually know if the "radical left" did this? Honest question - I haven't paid as close attention to my news feeds in the last day or so, so if they've revealed the perpetrator I could have easily missed it.

And I have absolutely no responsibility to do anything. They don't stand for me. And to be honest, although I don't agree with the means, I'm not complaining about the ends.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Not that I've heard thus far, no.

[martha]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

"The moderate left" has a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with this "radical left."

You mean, like how "moderate Muslims" have a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with the "radical Muslims"?

[Vlad n U 2]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I think you're missing the point. This wasn't a hurricane or some act of nature.

"The radical left" just bombed the opposition.

"The moderate left" has a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with this "radical left." The fact that the republicans don't do this are part of why they suck so much.

How do we know it was someone from the 'radical left'? Of course, it's fairly likely, but we don't know for sure.

Yeah, look, and you'll have to define what you mean by the 'moderate left' too.

[Vlad n U 2]

The 'radical left'/'moderate left' against 'radical Muslim'/'moderate Muslim' is a pretty lazy comparison too.

[martha]

Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2

The 'radical left'/'moderate left' against 'radical Muslim'/'moderate Muslim' is a pretty lazy comparison too.

How so? Isn't lumping groups of people together in general pretty lazy? Holding an entire group responsible for the actions of a few doesn't work most of the time no matter who you like to blame.

[cobl04]

It's been a bit of a pile on for Ashley here, I think you're a very empathetic person. And I completely agree that you can be a Republican and be a good person. Shit I've got mates who say racist or sexist things and I'm still friends with them, because the world ain't black and white like that.

But I agree with Axver's last post 100 per cent.

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I think you're missing the point. This wasn't a hurricane or some act of nature.

"The radical left" just bombed the opposition.

"The moderate left" has a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with this "radical left." The fact that the republicans don't do this are part of why they suck so much.

They absolutely do not and your previous posts about Muslims was super weird. They absolutely should have no obligation whatsoever to come out and say "I don't stand for this" when something bad is done in their name.

[LemonMelon]

I'm not an anarchist by any means and do not support property damage as a practical means of systemic change.

That said, not only do I feel no moral obligation whatsoever to monetarily right someone else's wrong, I'm not sure that I care for the idea of being lumped in with another group because I possess a common enemy with them. Broadly generalizing people into factions of "left" and "right," broken down into smaller subgroups of "radical left," "moderate left," "radical right" and "moderate right" also seems misguided to me.

[Kieran McConville]

My guess, apart from anything else, would be that 'moderate left' in America means liberals. What tiny 'far left' exists in America is in an actively antagonistic relationship with the 'moderate left'. They are not the same thing, and they don't want the same things.

This year is fucking ridiculous.

[BoMac]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...try/?tid=sm_tw

Sent from my Nexus 5 using U2 Interference mobile app

[Hewson]

#AmericasHat

[bono_212]

My thought, in regards to donating money, (something I didn't myself do, because the cost of repairs was covered before I was even aware anything had occurred) is less that, I need to be responsible for other people, and more, something shirts happened to you, and your rhetoric kinda brought it on yourself, it it wasn't OK, and I would like to help you out in a time of need, even if you wouldn't do the same for me. That may honestly just come from my upbringing and my religious views, Idk, but I do understand the argument that they represent fairly shitty things, and the idea of helping. them isn't an easy one to stomach.

Originally Posted by cobl04

It's been a bit of a pile on for Ashley here, I think you're a very empathetic person. And I completely agree that you can be a Republican and be a good person. Shit I've got mates who say racist or sexist things and I'm still friends with them, because the world ain't black and white like that.

I don't feel singled out at all, no worries. Everything seemed to be in generals as far as I could tell.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by martha

You mean, like how "moderate Muslims" have a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with the "radical Muslims"?

Yes, absolutely. Like I said, it's not only their responsibility. It's everyone's responsibility. But everyone has a part.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Axver

Do we actually know if the "radical left" did this? Honest question - I haven't paid as close attention to my news feeds in the last day or so, so if they've revealed the perpetrator I could have easily missed it.

Someone combating racism and trying to fight the ills of the republican right by means of bombing is categorically a radical from the left.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Someone combating racism and trying to fight the ills of the republican right by means of bombing is categorically a radical from the left.

How do we know they were of the left?