2016 US Presidential Election Thread XIV: May This Entertainment Never End

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I have very little sympathy for Republicans, and I sincerely doubt they would have sympathy for me to start with.
 
Pretty certain the whole of my family aren't evil human beings that lash out at other people for no good reason, but good job at not judging other people yourself.
 
I would like to see if there's any correlation between those donating (or defending it) to rebuild this building and those who get upset when anti-fascists confront Neo Nazis.

considering there is an actual ocean between where "anti-fascists confront Neo Nazis" these days and anything to do with this incident i'm sure the correlation is near zero.

you're really over-excitedly reaching with all this, vlad.
 
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I just get so angry about this stuff, I really do. There are reprehensible politicians and then there are every dy average people who honestly buy into what amounts to a lot of lies about how the Republican party can help them. Evangelicals and even just average religious people (which would definitely include my family) get roped into this guilt-cycle where people who are getting tons of money that they themselves will never see, are convinced that basically if they don't vote for Republicans, they'll go to hell. It sickens and disturbs me, and I feel bad for them, I really do. That's my world-view. But I'm not about to sit there and say that they are bad people because they're republicans.

Anyways, I have NO knowledge whatsoever of what the NC Republican party has done that has everyone so unwilling to help them, so I'm going to drop it. I'm just disappointed by the lack of empathy at play here, and the idea that it's NOT OK to help people you don't agree with. But, if what they've done is truly that bad, then I could be led to at least understand.
 
I just get so angry about this stuff, I really do. There are reprehensible politicians and then there are every dy average people who honestly buy into what amounts to a lot of lies about how the Republican party can help them. Evangelicals and even just average religious people (which would definitely include my family) get roped into this guilt-cycle where people who are getting tons of money that they themselves will never see, are convinced that basically if they don't vote for Republicans, they'll go to hell. It sickens and disturbs me, and I feel bad for them, I really do. That's my world-view. But I'm not about to sit there and say that they are bad people because they're republicans.

I understand your sense of frustration here because I too have family members (mercifully not too many in the immediate family) whom I truly consider backwards in their political views and who may fall into various categories of -ists (racists, sexist, what have you). If you looked at them on the whole they would not be bad people, they contribute to society, are generally great to their families, generous to a fault, etc. But they have bought into various lies and myths.

However I do think it is fair to fault them for wilful blindness. They for the most part choose to live in their bubble which they reinforce by reading/watching the same news sources, repeatedly falling for circulated nonsense whether through e-mail or by listening to neighbours/friends, sticking to the same daily routines that do not take them out of their comfort zone, etc. At some point we are all adults and capable of critical thinking but we have to want to open our eyes a little. It is not impossible because sometimes I look at a family of siblings and one or two are nutbags but the other ones are normal people. They had the same parents and the same upbringing and opportunities, but some seized on them and others didn't. When you choose to be ignorant and worse yet celebrate your ignorance, at some point you become a cog in the wheel of injustice and evil in this world. We can sugarcoat it however we like but it's true nonetheless.
 
But doesn't everyone, average religious people included, have an obligation to think critically and evaluate the veracity of what any political party tells them? Political affiliation really is a choice, so by choosing a party, a candidate, a position, one chooses to embrace that position and all it encompasses. If that candidate or position results on harm to others, then one bears some responsiblity for that harm.


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And I get what the both of you are saying, believe me. I came in kinda hot today, but it's just out of a feeling of helplessness more than anything.

I don't think it's *quite* as simple as we'd like for it to be, to just say to a person, THINK FOR YOURSELF, though, especially when religious manipulation is involved.
 
the way a person votes doesn't affect their value as a person, to me.

If you vote Trump, or UKIP, or Golden Dawn, or Front National, or One Nation, or similar, yes, I will judge you negatively for that.

People who willingly give support to racist, sexist, misogynistic, homophobic, authoritarian, fascist or quasi-fascist movements deserve no sympathy.

I should note, I would have no problem if Democrats were raising money to support the family of a hypothetical Republican congressional candidate with a kid who has some rare illness that is eye-wateringly expensive to treat. That would be a welcome show of non-partisan generosity. But actively helping a particularly unpleasant wing of the enemy continue their war on women, minorities, and many achievements that took decades or centuries to accomplish? I cannot justify that.
 
I think you're missing the point. This wasn't a hurricane or some act of nature.

"The radical left" just bombed the opposition.

"The moderate left" has a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with this "radical left." The fact that the republicans don't do this are part of why they suck so much.
 
Do we actually know if the "radical left" did this? Honest question - I haven't paid as close attention to my news feeds in the last day or so, so if they've revealed the perpetrator I could have easily missed it.

And I have absolutely no responsibility to do anything. They don't stand for me. And to be honest, although I don't agree with the means, I'm not complaining about the ends.
 
I think you're missing the point. This wasn't a hurricane or some act of nature.

"The radical left" just bombed the opposition.

"The moderate left" has a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with this "radical left." The fact that the republicans don't do this are part of why they suck so much.

How do we know it was someone from the 'radical left'? Of course, it's fairly likely, but we don't know for sure.

Yeah, look, and you'll have to define what you mean by the 'moderate left' too.
 
The 'radical left'/'moderate left' against 'radical Muslim'/'moderate Muslim' is a pretty lazy comparison too.
 
It's been a bit of a pile on for Ashley here, I think you're a very empathetic person. And I completely agree that you can be a Republican and be a good person. Shit I've got mates who say racist or sexist things and I'm still friends with them, because the world ain't black and white like that.

But I agree with Axver's last post 100 per cent.

I think you're missing the point. This wasn't a hurricane or some act of nature.

"The radical left" just bombed the opposition.

"The moderate left" has a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with this "radical left." The fact that the republicans don't do this are part of why they suck so much.

They absolutely do not and your previous posts about Muslims was super weird. They absolutely should have no obligation whatsoever to come out and say "I don't stand for this" when something bad is done in their name. :down:
 
I'm not an anarchist by any means and do not support property damage as a practical means of systemic change.

That said, not only do I feel no moral obligation whatsoever to monetarily right someone else's wrong, I'm not sure that I care for the idea of being lumped in with another group because I possess a common enemy with them. Broadly generalizing people into factions of "left" and "right," broken down into smaller subgroups of "radical left," "moderate left," "radical right" and "moderate right" also seems misguided to me.
 
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My guess, apart from anything else, would be that 'moderate left' in America means liberals. What tiny 'far left' exists in America is in an actively antagonistic relationship with the 'moderate left'. They are not the same thing, and they don't want the same things.

This year is fucking ridiculous.
 
My thought, in regards to donating money, (something I didn't myself do, because the cost of repairs was covered before I was even aware anything had occurred) is less that, I need to be responsible for other people, and more, something shirts happened to you, and your rhetoric kinda brought it on yourself, it it wasn't OK, and I would like to help you out in a time of need, even if you wouldn't do the same for me. That may honestly just come from my upbringing and my religious views, Idk, but I do understand the argument that they represent fairly shitty things, and the idea of helping. them isn't an easy one to stomach.
It's been a bit of a pile on for Ashley here, I think you're a very empathetic person. And I completely agree that you can be a Republican and be a good person. Shit I've got mates who say racist or sexist things and I'm still friends with them, because the world ain't black and white like that.

I don't feel singled out at all, no worries. Everything seemed to be in generals as far as I could tell.
 
You mean, like how "moderate Muslims" have a responsibility to make amends and disavow, and disassociate with the "radical Muslims"?


Yes, absolutely. Like I said, it's not only their responsibility. It's everyone's responsibility. But everyone has a part.
 
Do we actually know if the "radical left" did this? Honest question - I haven't paid as close attention to my news feeds in the last day or so, so if they've revealed the perpetrator I could have easily missed it.


Someone combating racism and trying to fight the ills of the republican right by means of bombing is categorically a radical from the left.
 
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