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Old 05-18-2016, 12:31 PM   #821
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To me, it seems like there's a hint of Anarchy in both camps, Trump and Sanders. It's a broken system, so instead of improve it (which they feel can't because it's rigged), it's best to just burn it down.
It does have that feel from the Sanders side.

He can't win. The ratios of which the cites would have to go in his favor are so extreme it's virtually impossible. Leicster City had better odds entering this season.

And it's not rigged. It's not the super delegates. It's every single possible way you could measure it.

But he's staying in till the convention. Why? It really seems like if he can't get his way he's rather just take the whole thing down with him.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:31 PM   #822
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Whatever gets him to 270.

I'd rather have a leader stand up for himself than go around the world apologizing for America. You might say it shows humility but I say it shows weakness that the strongmen of the Globe can exploit. Putin knows Obama can run rough shot over Ukraine and Obama won't do jack. Obama backs off our own missile defense system to appease the Russians is basically a green light to Putin and Medvedev to toy with us. And the HRC gives them a symbolic reset button. Then they reset and take Crimea. Trump is more of a bulwark against international mischief just through force of personality. The left may shower love on a nuanced teachers lounge approach that Obama has brought to the table, but what has it gotten us. The rise of ISIS (by taking all our troops out of Iraq as a stabilizing force), the Ukranian fiasco, China turning the spratly islands into military bases in the South China Sea, Iran humiliating our sailors. There are no fear of repercussions with Obama.

Where are all the environmentalists protesting China destroying these reefs?

Trumps foreign policy is a withdrawal from neocon adventurism and rebuilding our military at home. The missile defense system is a no brainier. We don't have to escalate our Korean peninsula posturing if we can neutralize the missile threat. Nor do we have to risk WWIII by preemptively striking Iran with B-2 bombers or having Israel do it if we protect our allies with missile defense.


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Old 05-18-2016, 12:38 PM   #823
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Trumps foreign policy
Whatever that means, other than a tangle of sloganeering.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:43 PM   #824
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It does have that feel from the Sanders side.

He can't win. The ratios of which the cites would have to go in his favor are so extreme it's virtually impossible. Leicster City had better odds entering this season.

And it's not rigged. It's not the super delegates. It's every single possible way you could measure it.

But he's staying in till the convention. Why? It really seems like if he can't get his way he's rather just take the whole thing down with him.
Yep. CNN released an article going over every possible scenario for Bernie, rule changes, no more super delegates.....and he still loses in every single scenario. Some of them are closer, but he loses.

I am hopeful after he loses in CA, that he wakes up and concedes. But my fear is that he's so far up his own ass about being some revolutionary hero, he'll end up taking down the country.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:48 PM   #825
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Whatever gets him to 270.

I'd rather have a leader stand up for himself than go around the world apologizing for America. You might say it shows humility but I say it shows weakness that the strongmen of the Globe can exploit. Putin knows Obama can run rough shot over Ukraine and Obama won't do jack. Obama backs off our own missile defense system to appease the Russians is basically a green light to Putin and Medvedev to toy with us. And the HRC gives them a symbolic reset button. Then they reset and take Crimea. Trump is more of a bulwark against international mischief just through force of personality. The left may shower love on a nuanced teachers lounge approach that Obama has brought to the table, but what has it gotten us. The rise of ISIS (by taking all our troops out of Iraq as a stabilizing force), the Ukranian fiasco, China turning the spratly islands into military bases in the South China Sea, Iran humiliating our sailors. There are no fear of repercussions with Obama.

Where are all the environmentalists protesting China destroying these reefs?

Trumps foreign policy is a withdrawal from neocon adventurism and rebuilding our military at home. The missile defense system is a no brainier. We don't have to escalate our Korean peninsula posturing if we can neutralize the missile threat. Nor do we have to risk WWIII by preemptively striking Iran with B-2 bombers or having Israel do it if we protect our allies with missile defense.


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Everything you have listed, if Obama had acted differently, you would still find fault.

The war was a mistake, and all we heard is how we need to get out of the middle east (something you talk about getting us out of Korea), and so we did....and you find fault because another extremist group rose from the ashes.

Did the Obama administration take ISIS seriously enough? Probably not. Guess if W didn't topple two countries, we wouldn't have such instability either.

W also spent his 8 years trying to get a missile defense system in place. It was shit. Not saying shouldn't at least look into it, but it's not the end all solution to our military bases overseas.

Trump will start to fall in line with what the GOP wants in FP and the military. His shit talking about self finance, how he's not bought and paid for will change come the general election. He isn't going to spend all of his own $ to fund it, he'll have to take Super PAC money, and then he'll have to answer to those donors.

I just don't get how you can want someone who has NO law, NO military, and NO governance experience to try and run one of the most complicated countries in the world. Again, Anarchist.
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Old 05-18-2016, 12:56 PM   #826
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Whatever gets him to 270.

I'd rather have a leader stand up for himself than go around the world apologizing for America.
But the problem is, it's about HIMSELF, no one else. Calling people names is not standing up for yourself, you and Trump should learn the difference. The fact that you like Putin's endorsement says everything about Trump and his voter's understanding of foreign policy. The rest of your post was a mess and not worth discussing.

And stop falling for Rush's sloganeering, there was no "apology" tour.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:44 PM   #827
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I'd rather have a leader stand up for himself than go around the world apologizing for America. You might say it shows humility but I say it shows weakness that the strongmen of the Globe can exploit. Putin knows Obama can run rough shot over Ukraine and Obama won't do jack. Obama backs off our own missile defense system to appease the Russians is basically a green light to Putin and Medvedev to toy with us. And the HRC gives them a symbolic reset button. Then they reset and take Crimea. Trump is more of a bulwark against international mischief just through force of personality.
I'm in Russia right now for work and if you believe that Putin & Co would have acted 'more timid' had Obama showed more force then you're either completely ignorant on the mentality over here or as batshit crazy as Trump.
Or both.
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Old 05-18-2016, 01:52 PM   #828
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W also spent his 8 years trying to get a missile defense system in place. It was shit. Not saying shouldn't at least look into it, but it's not the end all .

We put a man on the moon in the 1960s. It can be done. You're damn right we should look into it.


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Old 05-18-2016, 02:12 PM   #829
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We put a man on the moon in the 1960s. It can be done. You're damn right we should look into it.


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We'll make the Martians pay for it.


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Old 05-18-2016, 03:16 PM   #830
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We'll make the Martians pay for it.


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This just in: the Martians refused and Trump said the missile just got ten feet taller


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Old 05-18-2016, 03:28 PM   #831
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Maybe we can go with a death star
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:03 PM   #832
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I'm in Russia right now for work and if you believe that Putin & Co would have acted 'more timid' had Obama showed more force then you're either completely ignorant on the mentality over here or as batshit crazy as Trump.
Or both.


Thank you. It's great to hear from someone with actual information based on first hand experience and information who knows what they are talking about.
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:16 PM   #833
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This just in: the Martians refused and Trump said the missile just got ten feet taller


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Trump is a merciful leader. Those extra 10 ft are negotiable.
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Old 05-18-2016, 04:39 PM   #834
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
the Ukranian fiasco,
what else could he possibly have done that would have been an adequate response to you that would not have resulted in a war with Russia?

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China turning the spratly islands into military bases in the South China Sea
Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam and the Philippines have bases on the islands. China has zero. do you actually have any legit idea of what you're talking about here, or is this just another whine fest?

not to mention how preposterously hypocritical it is of the US to complain about any other nations building offshore naval port facilities.

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Iran humiliating our sailors
you mean the ones who were arrested for being in Iranian territorial waters and then were released a whole one day later? how utterly humiliating that they suffered the exact same fate they would have if they had crossed into any other (non-allied) nation's waters, and that they had to endure one night in an Iranian hotel. you seem to have a pretty low opinion of the fortitude and dignity of US sailors.

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There are no fear of repercussions with Obama.
i would say that the world not being in constant fear of war is probably not a bad thing.

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The missile defense system is a no brainier.
in this age, it would be about as useful as trying to turn the ocean into fresh water. nobody else has even got enough missiles to send scores of them at America and there are already missile defence systems on both coasts, on every US-occupied island in the Pacific and in nearly every ship in the Navy that could easily handle every single Chinese missile being shot at once at the continental US.
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:14 PM   #835
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And stop falling for Rush's sloganeering, there was no "apology" tour.
Thank you. I am so sick and tired of the "apology tour" complaints. Yes, heaven forbid our president dare to acknowledge this country may have made some mistakes and isn't the perfect "#1!" country we like to tout it as. Our standing in the world has improved since Obama took office, and it's really sad that that fact doesn't matter to some people here in the States.

Seriously, I don't get how it doesn't concern people that other countries are horrified at the thought that Trump might actually be our next president. I don't get how it doesn't concern them how angry our allies are at the thought we could vote for someone who is not only blatantly ignorant and disrespectful towards the rest of the world, but PROUD of that ignorance and disrespect as well. We already made that mistake with the Bush administration, and completely screwed up our relationship with other countries the world over in the process (and made already iffy interactions with certain countries even worse). And now people are seriously willing to consider voting for someone who will cause our country to make those same mistakes again, simply because "Hey, he's a tough guy who doesn't need to win the approval of the rest of the world!"? Really?

Also, the mention of Putin leads me to something that's been confusing me about the right for a while now. On the one hand, they constantly talk about how scary Putin will be thanks to Obama's policies...

...and yet, on the other hand, I seem to remember hearing a few right-wing pundits talking about how they wished Obama would act tougher, like Putin did, and saying so in a way that makes it sound like they almost admire Putin's ruling style, at the very least. So which is it? Is Putin a scary figure or someone Obama should emulate?

(As for the mention of Sanders from a few pages back, any idiot supporters of his who are causing violence and doing other stupid shit need to go away. You're not helping matters at all.)
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:00 PM   #836
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I'm not endorsing this viewpoint, but you can both admire Putin's leadership and fear it. I don't understand your criticism on that one. If Obama were this figure you make an example of, it doesn't automatically mean they'd want him to be a monster, nor do they necessarily view Putin as a monster.
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:54 PM   #837
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https://www.google.com/amp/www.nbcne...preme-n576446#

Is the next Supreme Court justice on that list?
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Old 05-18-2016, 08:18 PM   #838
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I'm not endorsing this viewpoint, but you can both admire Putin's leadership and fear it. I don't understand your criticism on that one. If Obama were this figure you make an example of, it doesn't automatically mean they'd want him to be a monster, nor do they necessarily view Putin as a monster.
I understand that, and I get that's what they probably mean in some aspects.

But in this particular case, it's just strange to hear them go on and on about how we need to fight Putin while simultaneously criticizing Obama for not acting more like him, especially considering one of their biggest complaints about Obama thus far has been that he's this supposed tyrannical dictator sort who wants the government to control every aspect of people's lives and wanted to put death panels in our healthcare and take away everyone's guns and so on and so forth.

Even if they do mean it the way you note, the way they wind up actually expressing that view just comes off as sounding rather contradictory.
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Old 05-18-2016, 09:06 PM   #839
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I don't think The Trump crowd gives a damn what world leaders think. Of course they enjoy Putin giving Trump some admiration. When it comes to liberal Europa, of course they will be skeptical of Trump. He just counter-punches when attacked. Sometimes it's tongue and cheek, but those silly nicknames worked against 16 opponents so far.


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I don't think Europe is half as liberal as you seem to think it is ...

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To me, it seems like there's a hint of Anarchy in both camps, Trump and Sanders. It's a broken system, so instead of improve it (which they feel can't because it's rigged), it's best to just burn it down.
You need to look up 'anarchy'. I have a hint for you, it's not 'chaos'.

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Yep. CNN released an article going over every possible scenario for Bernie, rule changes, no more super delegates.....and he still loses in every single scenario. Some of them are closer, but he loses.

I am hopeful after he loses in CA, that he wakes up and concedes. But my fear is that he's so far up his own ass about being some revolutionary hero, he'll end up taking down the country.
That's cute. It's amazing how one individual can do all this.

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Trump will start to fall in line with what the GOP wants in FP and the military. His shit talking about self finance, how he's not bought and paid for will change come the general election. He isn't going to spend all of his own $ to fund it, he'll have to take Super PAC money, and then he'll have to answer to those donors.

I just don't get how you can want someone who has NO law, NO military, and NO governance experience to try and run one of the most complicated countries in the world. Again, Anarchist.
The notion of Trump being an anarchist is one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this board. Once again, look 'anarchism' up and stop using it as a synonym for anything you deem chaotic.

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Our standing in the world has improved since Obama took office, and it's really sad that that fact doesn't matter to some people here in the States.
What do you base this on?
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Old 05-18-2016, 09:32 PM   #840
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What do you base this on?
From what I've heard in the news over the years and from the people in other countries I talk to online.

That's not to say there aren't ANY critiques that other countries are still making of the U.S., of course, especially with some of our foreign policy decisions. But for the most part, from what I've heard and seen, ever since Obama took office, our country has slowly been gaining back some of the respect from our allies that we lost when Bush was in power.
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