2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VIII

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Axver

The left is so anti-Trump because he is a genuinely abhorrent human being who will burn America's global reputation to the ground. You guys already were the laughingstock of the world under Dubya. That, now, appears to have just been the warmup act.

Enjoy being completely reviled and then completely irrelevant if you elect this Fuckwit-in-Chief.

Unfortunately, some in this country don't seem to give a damn what the rest of the world thinks of us.

I honestly cannot believe our country let this nonsense with Trump get this far.

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

I think people automatically rush to judgment that Evangelicals want a "Pastor in Chief"

Some on the fringe do. But this cycle they are looking for security and world leadership.

Early on during the debates Trump would reference "Medieval Times" with ISIS chopping off the heads of Christians. Statements such as these went a long way in endearing him to Evangelical voters.

And this is what troubles a lot of people who aren't part of that voter block. Because there is a vast difference between wanting to defeat ISIS simply because they're a legitimately dangerous group that poses a threat to the world at large and turning the fight against ISIS into a "Christian versus Muslim" holy war. Unfortunately, the religious right tends to be much more focused on the latter option.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

Unfortunately, some in this country don't seem to give a damn what the rest of the world thinks of us.

Which is funny because a lot of them also seem mightily proud to claim their country is the most important and powerful in the world.

Well that claim's on shaky ground already and the earth will crumble from under it if Trump is elected.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Axver

Which is funny because a lot of them also seem mightily proud to claim their country is the most important and powerful in the world.



Well that claim's on shaky ground already and the earth will crumble from under it if Trump is elected.

I think the problem is more that a genuinely awful, ignorant, petty thug will be in charge of the most important and powerful country in the world.

[Axver]

Exactly my point, and with such a person at the helm it will cease to be the most important or powerful.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Early on during the debates Trump would reference "Medieval Times" with ISIS chopping off the heads of Christians. Statements such as these went a long way in endearing him to Evangelical voters.

Almost right.

It was in the aftermath of the Paris attacks and Trump's call to "ban" all Muslims where his campaign really took off.

So, yes, it was bigotry and xenophobia that propelled him to the front of the pack. We can dress these things up however we want -- "security" -- and lie to ourselves, but the fact remains that Trump is a demagogue and has given people specific things to blame for their insecurities (Muslims, Mexicans). And it's unsurprising to me that conservative evangelicals responded positively to such a thing.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Axver

Exactly my point, and with such a person at the helm it will cease to be the most important or powerful.

If present polling holds, Clinton wins 347 to 191. Take heart.

[Moonlit_Angel]

God, I hope so.

[BVS]

He WILL unify the party. I just thought this ad was pretty funny:

http://m.motherjones.com/politics/20...et-never-trump


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[Irvine511]

My thoughts on Bernie, and I'm assuming that he's in it for ideology and not ego, is that he's staying in to keep her from drifting too much back to the center. She knows that only the most self-hating Bernie supporters won't vote for her in November. They won't vote for Trump. She wants them, of course, but they aren't her primary concern.

What she needs is the middle and the Chamber of Commerce Republicans. She knows he can't win on a coalition of working class whites, racists, and conspiracy theorists. She is going to make herself presentable to the Mitt Romney wing of the party who are going to hold their nose and vote for her. People talk about how much she is "hated" by the right -- but the people who are invested in actually hating her are the Trump voters. Sure, she's not a natural politician and can be grating, but no one thinks she's stupid or crazy or irresponsible.

Sanders wants his platform to be heard, and to his credit, he's far surpassed any other leftist candidate I can remember. I think it's a bit selfish to make her spend money in California, and if his attacks become helpful to Trump and therefore counterproductive to his message I'll lose patience with him.

For now, I'm choosing to believe that this is how Bernie is reading the tea leaves. He's keeping his platform alive so it isn't forgotten in her pivot to the center to claim the middle and maybe even middle right.

I could be wrong.

[Kieran McConville]

I think that's a fair reading. Sanders is staying in this to the convention to keep whatever he can of his platform concerns alive. If he dropped out last week, or today or tomorrow as it's insisted he ought, Hillary would tack right so fast it would make your head spin. She probably will anyway, but maybe some scraps can be locked in at the convention. I guess that's the thinking.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

If present polling holds, Clinton wins 347 to 191. Take heart.

I'd like to take heart, but the amount of times we've expected Trump's demise only for him to keep going - hell, if nothing else I expected a contested convention even with the Indiana results coming in. I didn't think a contested convention would stop one of Trump or Cruz getting the nomination in the end (I'm still unsure which of them terrifies me more), but besides being some good political theatre it would prolong the Republican trainwreck and instability.

I'm now wary of what Trump may achieve in the national campaign, and we've got six fucking months to go too. No new results, just campaigning and pontificating. Fucking hell.

But wouldn't it be funny if Trump crashes and burns with an electoral college result along the lines of Mondale or McGovern or Goldwater. Shame that's probably impossible in today's politics.

[Irvine511]

The truth is nobody knows. You're right -- we were all saying that this nonsense would be over once the voting started.

I also think the weakness of the GOP field has been underplayed. And Trump does seem to play by a totally different set of rules.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by deep

When you have Liberty University and Jerry Fallwell Jr endorsing

TWO Corinthians Trump, no worries

Liberty University also teach in science classes that man and dinosaur roamed the earth together like the fucking Flintstones.

So Liberty University can go fuck themselves.

[Kieran McConville]

Where Trump could be a worry is running left on economic populist grounds. He already has been when you parse the ugly nativism and racial animus. He is utterly shameless and the country club Republicans won't be much help to Hillary Clinton then.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

The truth is nobody knows. You're right -- we were all saying that this nonsense would be over once the voting started.

I also think the weakness of the GOP field has been underplayed. And Trump does seem to play by a totally different set of rules.

Remember that time - oh, about a month ago - when there were all those thinkpieces wondering if Trump was finally on the slide? Had our predictions of his demise finally come to pass, a little later than expected? For a second I started to worry that the Zodiac Killer was going to become the nominee.

But this was the perfect time for an unhinged loudmouth like Trump. It's not just that he's able to play on disenchantment with the "establishment", and his ability to command plenty of free TV coverage only gets at part of the picture. Getting to run against a weak field that was large and divided meant that as long as he carried just a third or so of a state, he was miles in front of almost everybody else. Divide and conquer. In non-preferential systems it works a charm.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville

Where Trump could be a worry is running left on economic populist grounds. He already has been when you parse the ugly nativism and racial animus. He is utterly shameless and the country club Republicans won't be much help to Hillary Clinton then.

If anybody thinks he won't pick up a small but vocal minority of Sanders voters, they're deluding themselves.

Look forward to every second rag running a shitty column about "why I supported Sanders and will now vote Trump".

[deep]

Originally Posted by Axver

I'd like to take heart, but the amount of times we've expected Trump's demise only for him to keep going - hell, if nothing else I expected a contested convention even with the Indiana results coming in. I didn't think a contested convention would stop one of Trump or Cruz getting the nomination in the end (I'm still unsure which of them terrifies me more), but besides being some good political theatre it would prolong the Republican trainwreck and instability.

I'm now wary of what Trump may achieve in the national campaign, and we've got six fucking months to go too. No new results, just campaigning and pontificating. Fucking hell.

But wouldn't it be funny if Trump crashes and burns with an electoral college result along the lines of Mondale or McGovern or Goldwater. Shame that's probably impossible in today's politics.

Thanks for writing this, I have been thinking that a lot of people are upset because they were looking forward to the 'contested convention" and the GOP ripping itself apart. The truth is that is was never ever going to happen, looking at the polls taken before Cruz and Kasish got out Trump is up 20-30 points on them in NJ, CA and NEB he would have cruised to 1300-1400 delegates. The GOP insiders and nevertrumps were way over playing that hoping for a hail mary, but kept missing. Odd thing is on the polls Trump out performs and oddly Clinton under performs by about 5 points each way. Based on that what can happen???

Originally Posted by Irvine511

The truth is nobody knows. You're right -- we were all saying that this nonsense would be over once the voting started.

I also think the weakness of the GOP field has been underplayed. And Trump does seem to play by a totally different set of rules.

I do agree, this election we are jamming good with weird and gilly.
The GOP field was not that weak at all, Rubio, Christie, Jeb, Walker, Kasish, come on now, be honest. The problem was the people are done with established politicians, that's why 3 outsiders rose to the top, with Hillary clinging on. Strange times, Biden would not have done as well as people think.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Axver

If anybody thinks he won't pick up a small but vocal minority of Sanders voters, they're deluding themselves.

Yeah, I've already seen a few Sanders supporters online talking about at least considering voting for Trump if Sanders doesn't get the nomination, if not outright encouraging other Democrats/liberals to vote for Trump over Clinton.

And my response to those people can be summed up like this:

[Kieran McConville]

Originally Posted by Axver

If anybody thinks he won't pick up a small but vocal minority of Sanders voters, they're deluding themselves.

Look forward to every second rag running a shitty column about "why I supported Sanders and will now vote Trump".

Expect some of that, for sure.

[deep]

Originally Posted by Axver

If anybody thinks he won't pick up a small but vocal minority of Sanders voters, they're deluding themselves.

Look forward to every second rag running a shitty column about "why I supported Sanders and will now vote Trump".

I appreciate you taking the time to weigh in from Oceania?? I think?

I could not carry on a decent conversation about your internal politics and I consider myself better informed than most Americans.
Trump won't get a lot of the young Sanders supporters. He will get many of the working class middle aged Americans that feel they have been sold out by the trade agreements that Bill and Hillary passed in the 90s. Sanders has hit a note on that, same note as Trump. Our elections turn on just a few states. What we call the rust belt, and coal country that typically goes Democratic, these people feel left behind by the Clintons and even Obama with his new trade deal. This is where Trump can flip a couple of states.