2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII

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Sanders is now closer than Trump to winning his party's nomination. Both sit at 93% on the FiveThirtyEight tracker and Sanders has another big win on the way this weekend.

Bernie's Wisconsin win nabbed him exactly the amount of delegates he would need in a 50-50 race nationwide, so his only real progress recently was earning back a couple more delegates in Nevada thanks to the Clark County flip this weekend. He still needs to make up 88 delegates (a Wyoming blowout on Saturday could help) while hitting these projections:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/
 
the iron horse said:
As a Libertarian I much prefer Sanders as a president, than Clinton.



One example is her advocacy to allow victims to sue gun makers which Bernie Sanders rejects.



She would push, I think, far more progressive liberal ideas than Sanders.



I don't agree with Sanders on many issues but I believe the guy is honest, tells us what he really thinks and would be far less aggressive in pushing progressive social ideology.



Like he says, his main concern would be helping average Americans.
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I'm guessing someone hacked your account? Sanders is everything you railed against Obama for but he ended up not being. Why the hell would any informed human being think Clinton was more progressive than Sanders?!

Is the NRA propaganda THAT important to you?

You won't answer so it doesn't matter.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
I really wish people would stop using the term 'saying it how it is' and its many variants. It's meaningless.
 
BigMacPhisto said:
Sanders is now closer than Trump to winning his party's nomination. Both sit at 93% on the FiveThirtyEight tracker and Sanders has another big win on the way this weekend.
Click to expand...

Define big win. Wyoming has a total of 14 delegates to divide. Sanders is projected (by the 538 site you're linking to) to win 9 of them, with the other 5 going to Clinton. This would reduce Clinton's lead to 206 delegates (from 210). Not exactly a big change if you ask me.
 
Popmartijn said:
Define big win. Wyoming has a total of 14 delegates to divide. Sanders is projected (by the 538 site you're linking to) to win 9 of them, with the other 5 going to Clinton. This would reduce Clinton's lead to 206 delegates (from 210). Not exactly a big change if you ask me.
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It say the only reason why little old Wyoming is a big win for Sanders if he wins it is because of the fact that he's on a winning streak. It's momentum brewing, which is certainly worth something.
 
BVS said:
I'm guessing someone hacked your account? Sanders is everything you railed against Obama for but he ended up not being. Why the hell would any informed human being think Clinton was more progressive than Sanders?!

Is the NRA propaganda THAT important to you?

You won't answer so it doesn't matter.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
Click to expand...


I'm telling you... it's the "honesty" thing that Paul fans seem to think it a trait of libertarianism.
 
BVS said:
Incremental change is the only sustainable model for the US. Period.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
Click to expand...

THIS! and this is extremely important. We have been warped into this delusion of big sweeping change, even the more ridiculous notion of "revolution". Sorry folks. Our entire system was set up to avoid just that. And thank god it was.

No one is going to go in and overturn everything. Right or left. It seems lost on so many, that if you want your side to jump in and make everything super liberal, that you ignore the fact that there is half the country that wants it the other way. So i thank my lucky stars that our system is made for long drawn out, slow change.
Bernie supporters keep knocking Obama and call him disappointing. If you look at all the things he was actually able to get done, it's extremely impressive.

Incremental change is the only way, and actually its the way that actually gets things DONE, and not broad fanciful statements that are rejected outright by the opposition.
 
Vlad n U 2 said:
I really wish people would stop using the term 'saying it how it is' and its many variants. It's meaningless.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Saying it how it is... Not being PC... Its all bullshit that means, I can say stupid shit, not know what I'm talking about and have no substance behind it, but you shouldn't criticize it!!
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
I'm telling you... it's the "honesty" thing that Paul fans seem to think it a trait of libertarianism.
Click to expand...


I get that, but If it's the "honesty" thing and Sanders has stated very clearly that he's the true progressive, why would one think Clinton would push a more progressive agenda? That makes no sense.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
I didn't say i was against incremental changes. i am against incremental changes that never happen, like what Obama kinda promised.
 
BVS said:
I get that, but If it's the "honesty" thing and Sanders has stated very clearly that he's the true progressive, why would one think Clinton would push a more progressive agenda? That makes no sense.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
Click to expand...


I'm agreeing with you. There's this irrationality surrounding hatred for Clinton's policy but respect for Sanders.
 
Mack_Again said:
I didn't say i was against incremental changes. i am against incremental changes that never happen, like what Obama kinda promised.
Click to expand...


Is that really true though? Lots of things have changed between 2008 and now. I think his framework for healthcare needs fixing, sure, but there are results.
 
BigMacPhisto said:
Sanders is now closer than Trump to winning his party's nomination. Both sit at 93% on the FiveThirtyEight tracker and Sanders has another big win on the way this weekend.

Bernie's Wisconsin win nabbed him exactly the amount of delegates he would need in a 50-50 race nationwide, so his only real progress recently was earning back a couple more delegates in Nevada thanks to the Clark County flip this weekend. He still needs to make up 88 delegates (a Wyoming blowout on Saturday could help) while hitting these projections:

http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/delegate-targets/democrats/
Click to expand...

Reality, Sanders won handily in Wisconsin. But at the end of the day he came away with 2 more delegates than Clinton.
If he gains 5 in Wyoming, that makes a grand total of 7 delegate gain in a two week period....

If Clinton wins NY by 5, PA by 5-8, MD by 10-15, NJ by 5-8... (I'm trying to be fair with the numbers here)
Then can Sanders supporters finally concede? Even if she were to lose one of the above by a couple points... There just isn't anything more for Sanders to get with substantial numbers. PR has 60 delegates and that's a shoe-in for Clinton, and DC will be a sure Clinton win...

For people that claim every news organization is owned by Clinton and transmitted from Benghazi via a secret server, the media is being extraordinarily kind to Sanders. No real vetting, constant excuses for any mis-steps, and continued propping up that he has a real chance.

It's getting old,
and the fact that he straight out lied about Clinton last night, saying that she said he was not "qualified" and then turning around and saying Clinton isn't qualified to be president, is borderline disgusting.
 
Mack_Again said:
I didn't say i was against incremental changes. i am against incremental changes that never happen, like what Obama kinda promised.
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure what was promised that hasn't at least had some real head way (incremental change) done...

Obviously i think we have seen him push as hard as he can, to the dismay and handwringing of republicans.

And that's the whole point. People have somehow come to believe that huge sweeping changes are just easy, but it has never been the case, nor will it ever be.

The fact that people genuinely believe that Sanders is somehow going to make any progress just because he doesn't have a superPAC is just astounding to me.
Or that Trump will make drastic changes because he self funded his primary??? nope
 
I support Sanders and i don't believe that everything will be solved magically. but it'll be a step (I think it should be a large one) toward the right direction to elect someone who actually care about ordinary people. I know he faces tons of problems and all that but I think electing him and having his judgement in the government will at least be the right thing for us. Obviously to achieve this, we need string of people who has similar belief as Bernie (like Elizabeth Warren?) after him. I think I am honestly excited about someone representing my liberal ideas and being confident about it instead of compromising it and calling it "third way."
 
womanfish said:
Reality, Sanders won handily in Wisconsin. But at the end of the day he came away with 2 more delegates than Clinton.

If he gains 5 in Wyoming, that makes a grand total of 7 delegate gain in a two week period....
Click to expand...

According to what numbers? He won 10 more, from what I've seen.




If Clinton wins NY by 5, PA by 5-8, MD by 10-15, NJ by 5-8... (I'm trying to be fair with the numbers here)

Then can Sanders supporters finally concede? Even if she were to lose one of the above by a couple points... There just isn't anything more for Sanders to get with substantial numbers. PR has 60 delegates and that's a shoe-in for Clinton, and DC will be a sure Clinton win...
Click to expand...

Sanders will concede when he has no path to the nomination and only then.
 
Mack_Again said:
I support Sanders and i don't believe that everything will be solved magically. but it'll be a step (I think it should be a large one) toward the right direction to elect someone who actually care about ordinary people. I know he faces tons of problems and all that but I think electing him and having his judgement in the government will at least be the right thing for us. Obviously to achieve this, we need string of people who has similar belief as Bernie (like Elizabeth Warren?) after him. I think I am honestly excited about someone representing my liberal ideas and being confident about it instead of compromising it and calling it "third way."
Click to expand...

I don't disagree, but it does bring up another sore point of mine with him. That is the fact that he is raising no money for other candidates. It just then feels to me that he is holding himself up as the lone savior of the country. He labels anyone that disagrees with him as "establishment". He labels all superdelegates as "establishment". Yet HE IS a superdelegate himself which is rich with irony.
These superdelegates and other Dems are elected officials. Elected by the people, parts of which are very NON establishment caucuses like the black, latino and progressive caucues. Yet those members support Clinton by about 75 to 2...

This is written off as establishment siding with her. But they are inherently anti-establishment folks, so it begs the question, why do they see Sanders in a less positive light.

All that said, i still like Bernie and agree that Dems need to get their asses involved and elect more and more progressives to make any real change.

peace
 
Incremental change... fuck. off.

Ronald Reagan and those around him almost singlehandedly changed the frame in which American politics was conducted. Obviously far for the worse, in my view. That which changed can and will change again. Incremental change my arse. First the narrative, hearts and minds, then the bums on seats, and the laws, and the opinion makers. Ok, in some ways I suppose it can seem incremental, but what's fifteen or twenty years (incidentally the gap between the Goldwater experiment and the rise of Reaganism/Thatcherism)?
 
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LuckyNumber7 said:
I'm agreeing with you. There's this irrationality surrounding hatred for Clinton's policy but respect for Sanders.
Click to expand...


Yeah, there is such an ingrained hatred of Clinton in the far right bubble culture, and an old white male just doesn't seem as threatening. He can even spell it out for them but their hatred will win at the end of the day.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
 
I'm basically split on Sanders/Clinton at this point, but I find the Clinton supporters to be way more irritating than the Sanders supporters. Again, I think there's a bit of a split with Facebook vs. Twitter audiences, so my experience is probably different than a lot of people here.
 
I'd say I have the same feelings, particularly with the Clinton audience that I have to watch on my Facebook. If one more person says "yaaaas" I might explode.
 
PhilsFan said:
I'm basically split on Sanders/Clinton at this point, but I find the Clinton supporters to be way more irritating than the Sanders supporters. Again, I think there's a bit of a split with Facebook vs. Twitter audiences, so my experience is probably different than a lot of people here.
Click to expand...

Wow. I've never once heard that. Having been a bernie guy for months and switching to HRC, and being active on FB and Twitter, I've seen both sides, AND have been actively hit from both sides.
I can attest to the fact that Bernie people seem to just spew piles of vileness compared to most HRC people.
99% of Hillary people will admit that HRC isn't perfect, and would vote for Bernie if he's the nom.
I'd say a good 30% of Bernie posts i see are a long list of GOP smears against Clinton followed by, I will never vote for the corporate shill, Killary!!

Ugh.. I'm not sure where you are frequenting on social media, but thank god you are shielded from the onslaught that i see.
 
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