2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII - Page 7

Kieran McConville · 03-31-2016, 10:42 AM

If Sanders is even close in New York, this could remain interesting.

prbiker15 · 03-31-2016, 11:07 AM

I also think that the chances of Bernie clinching the nomination are starting to get really slim. If he doesn't turn out to be the nominee, I'll gladly support Hillary.

DaveC · 03-31-2016, 11:19 AM

Why is the only option to pay for health care drastically raising taxes anyways?

There will never be another grand-army conventional war. Cutting the defense budget could easily pay for universal health care, or at least enough that the cost to the individual tax payer would be relatively low. It's insane that any country feels the need to maintain such a ridiculously overpowered military for no good reason.

Oregoropa · 03-31-2016, 11:36 AM

Our allies should start contributing more to their own defense budgets so we aren't the World's Rent A Cops. Then again empowering certain actors in the Far East could lead to greater instability. Cutting the military budget to pay for Social programs sounds attractive on paper but has far reaching implications.

Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

BEAL · 03-31-2016, 11:37 AM

Agree. Think of what we could do just lowering the military expense by 25%

Surely we can still be safe

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DaveC · 03-31-2016, 11:49 AM

A 25% cut would still leave the United States with more than double the defense budget of China.

$150 billion free to spend on Americans (theoretically).

**Headache in a Suitcase** · 03-31-2016, 01:06 PM

Bingo. Let's start with getting our spending under control and get the most bang for our buck. Let's also work to close corporate loopholes and regulations on certain segments of financial industry who have gone unchecked.

Then, and only then, should we start talking about significant tax increases on the middle and upper middle class.

Oregoropa · 03-31-2016, 02:48 PM

Don't touch taxing the middle class as a whole right now. I know many people who haven't seen a raise in the past 5 years. Wages are stagnant. Health premiums keep shooting up. I know Bernie prefers a Scandinavian model of social spending. I think it's easier for those countries who's populations are under 10 million to get on board with and implement that spending regime. If the USA was 50 different countries I could see New England and Washington state able to pull it off.

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deep · 03-31-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveC

A 25% cut would still leave the United States with more than double the defense budget of China.

$150 billion free to spend on Americans (theoretically).

'

China defense planning includes losing 30 per cent of their population as they ramp up eventually win the war. It's a good plan.

Mack_Again · 03-31-2016, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deep

'

China defense planning includes losing 30 per cent of their population as they ramp up eventually win the war. It's a good plan.

hi deepster.

Irvine511 · 03-31-2016, 05:18 PM

i swear i'm going to throw my computer out the window if i have to witness one more dumbshit argument between Bernie Bros and Clintonistas on FB.

corianderstem · 03-31-2016, 05:33 PM

I had my first one (in my own FB post) last night! My Hilary supporting friend was civil and kept his cool. My Bernie supporting acquaintance was kind of a dick about it.

Like, way to keep that stereotype going.

Irvine511 · 03-31-2016, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I had my first one (in my own FB post) last night! My Hilary supporting friend was civil and kept his cool. My Bernie supporting acquaintance was kind of a dick about it.

Like, way to keep that stereotype going.

i feel like the Hillary folk hate the Sanders folk, whereas the Sanders folk hate Hillary.

as Sinead O'Conner once said: "fight the real enemy."

Irvine511 · 03-31-2016, 05:50 PM

but take heart. our next president will not be Donald Trump.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ven-white-men/

Moonlit_Angel · 03-31-2016, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

as Sinead O'Conner once said: "fight the real enemy."

This. With the Republican Party imploding as it is right now, this is a great opportunity for the Democrats to show solidarity and try and combine the best of both Bernie and Hilary's messages into something worth voting for. If we want to have another Democratic president, we need to not be at each other's throats.

Obviously there's stuff worth criticizing in both Bernie and Hilary's campaigns or messages, and I appreciate that we're willing to have that discussion, and are actually thinking about what they have to say and offer. But in my eyes, that just means fans of one candidate have a great opportunity to go to events for the other and ask things like, "So what do you think about x or y issue? How would you address this or that situation? What's your plan to help _____ (insert whatever group of people you feel deserves a lot of focus here)" And so on. It doesn't have to be an either/or situation.

I get being upset if your favorite candidate doesn't get the nomination, but I don't get the refusal some people have to support the person who wins it instead. Considering who we're up against on the GOP side, we need as much support as we can get.

Bluer White · 03-31-2016, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by digitize

I would hazard a guess that the people in this thread who are worried about taxes are also probably not terribly insecure on the health insurance front.

I would also hazard a guess, for the upper middle class, a Bernie-like tax plan would be pretty unambiguously negative. That's not an argument that such a plan is necessarily bad, but it is an argument that a major segment of the American population that at least doesn't feel like it has a ton of extra disposable income would be hit in a noticeable way.

Great thoughts, digit.

My guess is that we all recognize tax rates need to be adjusted periodically. And every class, from fast food employees hoping for 15 bucks per hour, to the trendy upper middle class homes bringing in 225K+, to the millionaires and up....they all have very "nuanced" positions as to why their rates shouldn't be increasing much. It's a healthy discussion to have and Sanders is sparking it.

Kieran McConville · 03-31-2016, 08:21 PM

No mention of his proposed tax on financial transactions of the Wall Street variety. At a fraction of the rate of existing sales taxes (which it would be analogous to), that alone would help significantly in funding such things as university tuition. In the hypothetical future world where such things became law.

Mack_Again · 03-31-2016, 08:28 PM

I thought his tax pal would tax high frequency/high risk trades on the stock market. and that'll fund shit tons of money for his plans.

deep · 03-31-2016, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

This. With the Republican Party imploding as it is right now, this is a great opportunity for the Democrats .

you can stop right there and add, and a decent chance to pick up? the senate

(that will advise and consent)

deep · 03-31-2016, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mack_Again

I thought his tax pal would tax high frequency/high risk trades on the stock market. and that'll fund shit tons of money for his plans.

a tax pal? is this a socialist concept?

03-31-2016, 10:42 AM	#121
Kieran McConville ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hi, Violet Posts: 10,253 Local Time: 01:05 PM	If Sanders is even close in New York, this could remain interesting. __________________

03-31-2016, 11:07 AM	#122
prbiker15 Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Puerto Rico Posts: 16,030 Local Time: 11:05 PM	2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII I also think that the chances of Bernie clinching the nomination are starting to get really slim. If he doesn't turn out to be the nominee, I'll gladly support Hillary. __________________

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03-31-2016, 11:19 AM	#123
DaveC Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: the killerwhaletank Posts: 23,075 Local Time: 10:05 PM	Why is the only option to pay for health care drastically raising taxes anyways? There will never be another grand-army conventional war. Cutting the defense budget could easily pay for universal health care, or at least enough that the cost to the individual tax payer would be relatively low. It's insane that any country feels the need to maintain such a ridiculously overpowered military for no good reason.

03-31-2016, 11:36 AM	#124
Oregoropa Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Polish-American Stronghold PA Posts: 4,144 Local Time: 10:05 PM	Our allies should start contributing more to their own defense budgets so we aren't the World's Rent A Cops. Then again empowering certain actors in the Far East could lead to greater instability. Cutting the military budget to pay for Social programs sounds attractive on paper but has far reaching implications. Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

03-31-2016, 11:37 AM	#125
BEAL Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: San Diego Posts: 7,337 Local Time: 03:05 AM	Agree. Think of what we could do just lowering the military expense by 25% Surely we can still be safe Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

03-31-2016, 11:49 AM	#126
DaveC Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: the killerwhaletank Posts: 23,075 Local Time: 10:05 PM	A 25% cut would still leave the United States with more than double the defense budget of China. $150 billion free to spend on Americans (theoretically).

03-31-2016, 01:06 PM	#127
Headache in a Suitcase Forum Administrator Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: With the other morally corrupt bootlicking rubes. Posts: 75,159 Local Time: 10:05 PM	Bingo. Let's start with getting our spending under control and get the most bang for our buck. Let's also work to close corporate loopholes and regulations on certain segments of financial industry who have gone unchecked. Then, and only then, should we start talking about significant tax increases on the middle and upper middle class.

03-31-2016, 02:48 PM	#128
Oregoropa Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Polish-American Stronghold PA Posts: 4,144 Local Time: 10:05 PM	Don't touch taxing the middle class as a whole right now. I know many people who haven't seen a raise in the past 5 years. Wages are stagnant. Health premiums keep shooting up. I know Bernie prefers a Scandinavian model of social spending. I think it's easier for those countries who's populations are under 10 million to get on board with and implement that spending regime. If the USA was 50 different countries I could see New England and Washington state able to pull it off. Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

03-31-2016, 05:18 PM	#131
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the West Coast Posts: 34,470 Local Time: 11:05 PM	i swear i'm going to throw my computer out the window if i have to witness one more dumbshit argument between Bernie Bros and Clintonistas on FB.

03-31-2016, 05:33 PM	#132
corianderstem Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 64,498 Local Time: 08:05 PM	I had my first one (in my own FB post) last night! My Hilary supporting friend was civil and kept his cool. My Bernie supporting acquaintance was kind of a dick about it. Like, way to keep that stereotype going.

03-31-2016, 05:50 PM	#134
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the West Coast Posts: 34,470 Local Time: 11:05 PM	but take heart. our next president will not be Donald Trump. https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ven-white-men/

03-31-2016, 08:21 PM	#137
Kieran McConville ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hi, Violet Posts: 10,253 Local Time: 01:05 PM	No mention of his proposed tax on financial transactions of the Wall Street variety. At a fraction of the rate of existing sales taxes (which it would be analogous to), that alone would help significantly in funding such things as university tuition. In the hypothetical future world where such things became law.

03-31-2016, 08:28 PM	#138
Mack_Again Rock n' Roll Doggie ALL ACCESS Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: definitely Osaka Posts: 7,124 Local Time: 10:05 PM	I thought his tax pal would tax high frequency/high risk trades on the stock market. and that'll fund shit tons of money for his plans.