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Old 04-19-2016, 07:40 AM   #801
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He's also married to an American. I wonder if he has dual citizenship?
We know Bono doesn't have it. He wouldn't be able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance without a teleprompter.
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Old 04-19-2016, 09:50 AM   #802
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We know Bono doesn't have it. He wouldn't be able to recite the Pledge of Allegiance without a teleprompter.


Being an American is an idea.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:32 PM   #803
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So Hillary will win today, but does that mean we're done with this nomination process?

all i see on my FB feed are how the NY primary is "rigged" because not open to independents, or 100k registered Dems aren't being allowed to vote...

is this a new thing? or how it's always been?
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:42 PM   #804
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New York has an incredibly early registration deadline for its primary, and people who weren't even thinking about the election in October and were not already registered Democrats (independents or not registered to vote) can't participate today.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:47 PM   #805
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So Hillary will win today, but does that mean we're done with this nomination process?

all i see on my FB feed are how the NY primary is "rigged" because not open to independents, or 100k registered Dems aren't being allowed to vote...

is this a new thing? or how it's always been?
Yeah this is how it's always been. While I don't necessarily think the primaries are set up the best way, it's not like it's "rigged", that's just the Bernie supporters going over the top as usual.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:51 PM   #806
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I don't think it's rigged, but plenty of people who usually have an issue with voter suppression tactics are oddly fine with this.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:53 PM   #807
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So Hillary will win today, but does that mean we're done with this nomination process?

all i see on my FB feed are how the NY primary is "rigged" because not open to independents, or 100k registered Dems aren't being allowed to vote...

is this a new thing? or how it's always been?

No, not a new thing at all. The 100k people being purged or whatever the story is, of course very troubling. It can and does happen, and it looks like they can cast provisionals, but still shitty.

But the closed primary is nothing new, and in my opinion, it is what every contest in every state should be. Caucuses are clownshows that are probably the worst way to get a representative group of voters.

But the important part to me is this. Remember that primaries are not elections. They are a process that an established political party uses to nominate the candidate they think will be the strongest to win for them in the actual election.
All this moaning and groaning, and yes manipulation by Trump and Sanders is really annoying to me.
A closed primary makes sense in a few ways. One, it drives voter registration to your party for the general. If you have to be a Dem or Rep to vote in the primary, it gets people that might not chose a party, to take a side and hopefully be a valuable member for years to come.

Second, it cuts out the shennanigans. No offense to bernie people here, but Michigan was most likely lost because of Dems so sure hillary would win that something like 7% of voters crossed over to be spoilers on the republican side. And I'm sure vice versa.
How does this seem like its furthering the whole "democracy" argument being made?

And lastly, i think its the best way for us to finally get to a viable third, or even fourth party system! If every contest was a closed primary, the large number of Indys that now exist would be much more likely to rise up and create a real legitimate new party, that they could fund, run, and make rules for just like the two main parties do now.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:06 PM   #808
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It's not the closed primary, it's the primary registration deadline being 6+ months ahead of the primary.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:08 PM   #809
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Basically shatters the myth that Clinton is raising money mostly for the DNC when she conducts these big fundraisers such as the Clooney one.



The joint committee "reimbursing" the Clinton campaign has to be the biggest joke of them all, but it's even more ludicrous when this money raised is mostly being spent on Clinton herself.
Exactly. I detest Hillary and DWS.... both corrupt to the bone but sadly I will have to vote for her if Bernie doesn't get the nom just to avoid the Donald, the king of the oligarchs from winning.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:12 PM   #810
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It's not the closed primary, it's the primary registration deadline being 6+ months ahead of the primary.
I agree. I think a 2 or 4 week lead time would be much better.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:16 PM   #811
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It's not the closed primary, it's the primary registration deadline being 6+ months ahead of the primary.
Yep. I think everyone can agree that 6+ months is unnecessary.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:18 PM   #812
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It's not the closed primary, it's the primary registration deadline being 6+ months ahead of the primary.
I think this is also the reason given by Trump to explain why his children can't actually vote for him.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:32 PM   #813
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I think this is also the reason given by Trump to explain why his children can't actually vote for him.
I was actually shocked that Trump got registered as a Republican early enough.
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:38 PM   #814
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just wanted to post this quite long, detailed post i ran across today. I've been vocal that I used to be a Bernie supporter for some time, but now support Hillary.

This is a very all encompassing look at the many reasons I got fed up with Bernie along the way.

I obviously will support Bernie if he is the nom. But this lays out very well why now I am quite annoyed with him.

enjoy.

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/...699#.ixpkcz6an
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:57 PM   #815
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It's not the closed primary, it's the primary registration deadline being 6+ months ahead of the primary.

I'd say while the 6 month deadline is absolutely absurd, closed primaries aren't necessarily right either.

In a multiparty system? Sure. Closed primaries make sense. In a two party system, it just insists upon "picking a side." It encourages a two party system to thrive. Primaries should be semi-open to independents.
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Old 04-19-2016, 03:03 PM   #816
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just wanted to post this quite long, detailed post i ran across today. I've been vocal that I used to be a Bernie supporter for some time, but now support Hillary.

This is a very all encompassing look at the many reasons I got fed up with Bernie along the way.

I obviously will support Bernie if he is the nom. But this lays out very well why now I am quite annoyed with him.

enjoy.

https://medium.com/@robinalperstein/...699#.ixpkcz6an
Wow. Long but really good read.
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Old 04-19-2016, 03:05 PM   #817
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I've been vocal that I used to be a Bernie supporter for some time, but now support Hillary.

Really?
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Old 04-19-2016, 03:33 PM   #818
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Wow. Long but really good read.
Yes. Honestly, I've been coming to this conclusion as well (as have others in this forum).

I do think Bernie cares about these issues, but I also am starting to see that Bernie is just in this for Bernie. His lack of details puts him on par with Trump, and his false dichotomy style of argument (You agree with him, or you're establishment) is hurting the Dem party more than anything.

His credit should be bringing these issues into the mainstream (more), but as a candidate, he's as un-qualified as any I have seen, including Trump.

His plans to fund his ideas are make believe (5% increase in economic growth is ludicrous), his complete lack of support for the party he joined (biting the hand that feeds you) is disgusting, are just a few of the many reasons he'd be a complete disaster on the national level.

In no way is this saying Hillary is the bestest thing in the world. I just see more being accomplished under her than Bernie. It's almost as important to see more Dems take back the senate/house, than electing POTUS....considering Bernie has raised about 10k for THREE other D's, where Hillary has raised 20 million for those seats....which one will have more success passing more progressive policies?

and lastly, Bernie will not compromise. I think someone as evil as FuckTedCruz would bend in any bill.

Anyway, what a mess. Depressing all around.
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Old 04-19-2016, 03:34 PM   #819
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just wanted to post this quite long, detailed post i ran across today. I've been vocal that I used to be a Bernie supporter for some time, but now support Hillary.
Interesting read, but it has some inaccurate statements like "The overwhelming majority of the money Clinton received from her paid speeches went to charity."

The charity (when applicable) was the Clinton Foundation.

Politifact states:
In May, the New York Times published Clinton’s 2015 financial disclosure form. Covering a period from January 2014 to March 2015, Clinton lists a total of 51 speech fees that have been added to her personal account from a variety of companies. Not including her husband’s fees which also appear on the same disclosure, Clinton’s speech fees end up totaling more than $11 million.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact...tons-speaking/
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Old 04-19-2016, 03:45 PM   #820
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I'm sure that article has some spin to it, but I just don't care about Hillary's speeches.

It was nothing illegal, and nothing any other person of power has done before.

The problem I have is the assumption that because someone received $, that they are now bought and paid for by that entity. That Hillary will do Wall St's bidding and evil deeds.

I just don't see it being so black and white. Will some favors be returned, yes. Can we prove any of it? Most likely not.

It's the game, and it's easy to be on the outside screaming in when you refuse to do anything about it. There's a reason every president looks like they've aged 80 years after taking office....it's not a simple job, and idealogy tends to go out the window when you actually have to GOVERN
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