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Old 04-14-2016, 06:33 PM   #681
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Oh cmon. You know the minute Sanders leaves the race he will return to irrelevance and go the way of Ron Paul.

Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous that you guys are arguing over this? "Your boy Bernie" sounds so sports team politics. Blah blah blah Bernie Bros, Clintonistas, Obama Boys, PUMA, whatever label you want to slap. Those attempts to label an entire group of people as one are a weak way of attacking a campaign. I'd reserve those labels for something pathetic, like Donald Trump's followers. As for every other campaign, I think it's just weak. Enough already.


no, not really. i don't think it's ridiculous, and i think you're focusing a little too much on a small aside. i think these labels, whether a good thing or not, do exist, and are used in political language, so it's not surprising that they're reflected in here as well. though i never heard "Obama Boys" before.

i also don't think Sanders is going to fade into irrelevance. he's accomplished way, way more than Ron Paul, and raised way, way, way more money.
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Old 04-14-2016, 06:44 PM   #682
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So only one extreme group is deserving of labels?


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Only something worth disregarding entirely is worth labeling. You fail to listen when you start generalizing and labeling.

I'm okay with failing to listen to the Trump campaign. Because it's a fucking joke. Ted Cruz's campaign is an extreme group... I don't think labeling them is fair either. I still listen to what he has to say. For as much as I think he'd be a worse president than Trump, he's not a joke. Real [scary] ideas come out of his mouth.
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Old 04-14-2016, 06:44 PM   #683
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Don't you think it's a bit ridiculous that you guys are arguing over this? "Your boy Bernie" sounds so sports team politics. Blah blah blah Bernie Bros, Clintonistas, Obama Boys, PUMA, whatever label you want to slap. Those attempts to label an entire group of people as one are a weak way of attacking............
.



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Old 04-14-2016, 06:51 PM   #684
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no, not really. i don't think it's ridiculous, and i think you're focusing a little too much on a small aside. i think these labels, whether a good thing or not, do exist, and are used in political language, so it's not surprising that they're reflected in here as well. though i never heard "Obama Boys" before.



i also don't think Sanders is going to fade into irrelevance. he's accomplished way, way more than Ron Paul, and raised way, way, way more money.

I've never heard "Obama boys" either. I merely included it so I wasn't singling you out. I think sticking labels out there is just a way of disregarding the legitimacy of a campaign based upon the followers it holds. Almost to suggest that you can't vote republican due to a racist base, as opposed to the more important racist platform.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:01 PM   #685
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Only something worth disregarding entirely is worth labeling. You fail to listen when you start generalizing and labeling.

I'm okay with failing to listen to the Trump campaign. Because it's a fucking joke. Ted Cruz's campaign is an extreme group... I don't think labeling them is fair either. I still listen to what he has to say. For as much as I think he'd be a worse president than Trump, he's not a joke. Real [scary] ideas come out of his mouth.

Exactly. And in case you haven't noticed there's a population of Bernie supports that's all they do; generalize, label, condescend, and are isolated in their information. They are the left's version of Breitbart followers. Why should I listen to them if I'm not going to listen to Trump's followers?


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Old 04-14-2016, 07:27 PM   #686
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Exactly. And in case you haven't noticed there's a population of Bernie supports that's all they do; generalize, label, condescend, and are isolated in their information. They are the left's version of Breitbart followers. Why should I listen to them if I'm not going to listen to Trump's followers?


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Did you honestly just make a point about how 'if they do it, I should do it, too?'

You entirely missed the point. The stereotype of a Trump supporter is a joke, but so is Donald Trump himself.

The stereotype of a Sanders supporter is a joke, but Bernie Sanders isn't a joke. But, you're refusing to take him seriously due to his supposedly condescending supporters. That's just stupid. Not all of his supporters are condescending. If that much is true, and Sanders himself is not a joke, then it's not a negligible decision to generalize.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:39 PM   #687
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII

I'd say it's the Clinton supporters who are condescending.

The Bernie Bros are aggressive and naive and entitled all at the same time.

All of them. To a one.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:40 PM   #688
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Did you honestly just make a point about how 'if they do it, I should do it, too?'



You entirely missed the point. The stereotype of a Trump supporter is a joke, but so is Donald Trump himself.



The stereotype of a Sanders supporter is a joke, but Bernie Sanders isn't a joke. But, you're refusing to take him seriously due to his supposedly condescending supporters. That's just stupid. Not all of his supporters are condescending. If that much is true, and Sanders himself is not a joke, then it's not a negligible decision to generalize.

Woah, where did you get the idea that I've written him off, and especially because of his supporters?

No one is calling all supporters "bros", but there's a loud vocal group where the shoe fits. They're annoying and they're doing Sanders a disservice.

And I have no idea where you got 'if they do it, I should do it, too?'


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Old 04-14-2016, 07:47 PM   #689
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I have to say it's a bit odd to me that some of you seem so utterly obsessed with supporters of a particular candidate, when the only real criticism is that they are irritating (Hillary fans condescending/Bernie Bros aggressive naive kids). I mean...who cares?

It's one thing to be terrified of Trump's supporters who are openly racist and inciting violence, but on the Dem side, it's basically politically passionate people (agree with them or not) who may take it a step too far and who have the bad luck of living in an age of social and digital media such that their behaviour appears amplified.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:48 PM   #690
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Agreed, anitram.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:54 PM   #691
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unless, of course, you alienate the middle.



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Or you galvanize the right...
Ding.

There are moderate Republicans who are so disgusted with what they've put up that they'd actually consider voting for Hillary, something most of us would think would never ever happen in a million years... but hey, Trump and Cruz.

Going farther to the left because You think you can get away with it, because of how bad the GOP candidates are, could end up back firing.

Rural voters will vote overwhelmingly for the GOP candidate. Urban candidates will vote overwhelmingly the other way.

The election will be decided in the moderates in the suburbs. Right now they'll go hard for anyone but Trump or Cruz.

Nominate a far leftist, and then all of a sudden Kasich or some other more moderate, less douchey candidate comes out of a contested GOP convention, and you may will end up losing a presidency that you were given on a silver platter.
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Old 04-14-2016, 07:59 PM   #692
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Woah, where did you get the idea that I've written him off, and especially because of his supporters?

No one is calling all supporters "bros", but there's a loud vocal group where the shoe fits. They're annoying and they're doing Sanders a disservice.

And I have no idea where you got 'if they do it, I should do it, too?'


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I made the point like two posts ago that buying into the stereotypes and voicing them out loud is a way of illegitimizing the platform. Many people are using the followers as a way of illegitimizing the Sanders campaign. It's annoying. I hate hearing about the followers. I really do. Why is it a discussion worth having? This boils back down to the point that incredibly dumb people vote on both sides. Weighing whose loud voters are more irritating doesn't mean anything at all.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:03 PM   #693
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I have to say it's a bit odd to me that some of you seem so utterly obsessed with supporters of a particular candidate, when the only real criticism is that they are irritating (Hillary fans condescending/Bernie Bros aggressive naive kids). I mean...who cares?

It's one thing to be terrified of Trump's supporters who are openly racist and inciting violence, but on the Dem side, it's basically politically passionate people (agree with them or not) who may take it a step too far and who have the bad luck of living in an age of social and digital media such that their behaviour appears amplified.

Well there's been open racism and sexism on Bern's side too. It's not the passion that bothers me, it's the bubble culture that mirrors the right.


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Old 04-14-2016, 08:06 PM   #694
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Well there's been open racism and sexism on Bern's side too.
As opposed to Hillary's surrogates saying things like "there is a special place in hell for women who don't support [i.e. vote for] other women"?

Look, I'd vote for her over Bernie because I'm practical but the condescension from her supporters, the way they speak to the other side as if they are all stupid kids is really bloody irritating too. But I don't let that influence my vote nor do I say things like "it's not doing her any favours", etc. What's it got to do with Hillary or Bernie that some of their supporters are awful? Anybody whose vote would be swayed by that is off in some kind of la-la land if you ask me.
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Old 04-14-2016, 08:09 PM   #695
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Ding.

There are moderate Republicans who are so disgusted with what they've put up that they'd actually consider voting for Hillary, something most of us would think would never ever happen in a million years... but hey, Trump and Cruz.

Going farther to the left because You think you can get away with it, because of how bad the GOP candidates are, could end up back firing.

Rural voters will vote overwhelmingly for the GOP candidate. Urban candidates will vote overwhelmingly the other way.

The election will be decided in the moderates in the suburbs. Right now they'll go hard for anyone but Trump or Cruz.

Nominate a far leftist, and then all of a sudden Kasich or some other more moderate, less douchey candidate comes out of a contested GOP convention, and you may will end up losing a presidency that you were given on a silver platter.

This is what I feel could and would happen with Bernie as the nominee.

Don't throw the WH away because of being greedy with proposal ideas.

Baby steps


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Old 04-14-2016, 09:19 PM   #696
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Really rough start for Bernie tonight. He just keeps bringing up the same points. No solutions.

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Old 04-14-2016, 09:22 PM   #697
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Really rough start for Bernie tonight. He just keeps bringing up the same points. No solutions.

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Condescending! So condescending! You're not better than me!




(In all seriousness, I hope people realize I was kidding with my earlier post)
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Old 04-14-2016, 09:33 PM   #698
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Really rough start for Bernie tonight. He just keeps bringing up the same points. No solutions.

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Gloves are coming off just a lil bit more. Very beginning of these debates it was kind of a love fest. Neither would attack.

Now that Bernie has made it much closer, Substance needs to come out (on both sides)


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Old 04-14-2016, 10:06 PM   #699
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Ding.

There are moderate Republicans who are so disgusted with what they've put up that they'd actually consider voting for Hillary, something most of us would think would never ever happen in a million years... but hey, Trump and Cruz.

To underscore this point, I'm a moderate who frequently votes red. I could easily see myself pulling the lever for Clinton. I wouldn't even consider voting Sanders.


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Old 04-14-2016, 10:51 PM   #700
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As opposed to Hillary's surrogates saying things like "there is a special place in hell for women who don't support [i.e. vote for] other women"?



Look, I'd vote for her over Bernie because I'm practical but the condescension from her supporters, the way they speak to the other side as if they are all stupid kids is really bloody irritating too. But I don't let that influence my vote nor do I say things like "it's not doing her any favours", etc. What's it got to do with Hillary or Bernie that some of their supporters are awful? Anybody whose vote would be swayed by that is off in some kind of la-la land if you ask me.

Yeah, anyone who says that doesn't get it.

But saying "that doesn't do any favors" doesn't mean I'm not voting for someone based on their followers, it's about; if you're trying to win over hearts you're doing it wrong.


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