2016 US Presidential Election Thread - VII

[womanfish]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I disagree with your point about Sanders and independents. That's Clinton's issue, not his. He's doing well with them. I fear Clinton is going to struggle with them, due to lack of complacency with the status quo.

Just commenting on a few past topics since i haven't checked in a while.

First, the tax issue is a real problem.

Did the quick tax liability calculator at VOX and under Clinton, it goes up 90 bucks, under Sanders? 15,150!

With all the back and forth about who is the most electable versus Trump and Cruz - All it will take is commercial after commercial showing Trump lowering middle class taxes and Bernie skyrocketing them. Bernie adding nearly 50% to the size of government, and the GOP calling him a communist while playing video of him praising Castro. - DONE. Game over.

And I really like the guy!! But, Clinton has been put thru the ringer, and there is nothing new they can hit her with. Everything they have hit her with has now been beaten to death and proved to be a bunch of shit.

Sanders is fresh meat they haven't even looked at yet. That is scary.


As for independents, I think in the big scheme of things you're gonna get a split between Hillary and Trump. A sensible, middle of the road indy that is pro-choice, wants gun control, wants someone who cares about the environment, and someone with actual foreign policy knowledge is a shoe in in for Clinton. Would Sanders do better with Indys? probably.

BUT
I also believe that Clinton will CRUSH with both Latino and Black voters, AND with women in a way that no one else can, especially against Trump or even Cruz.
I think a lot of minority voters would sit home if it's Sanders / Trump.

That is all

peace.

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

if someone in here lives in San Francisco, they are going to tell you about how San Francisco is now more expensive than Manhattan. because this is what people form San Francisco talk about. being more expensive than Manhattan. and that being from San Francisco, despite being more more expensive than Manhattan, says a lot about them as a person. because San Francisco.

San Francisco.

and they're voting for Bernie.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RG9MOy9NtY

[BEAL]

Originally Posted by womanfish

Just commenting on a few past topics since i haven't checked in a while.



First, the tax issue is a real problem.



Did the quick tax liability calculator at VOX and under Clinton, it goes up 90 bucks, under Sanders? 15,150!



With all the back and forth about who is the most electable versus Trump and Cruz - All it will take is commercial after commercial showing Trump lowering middle class taxes and Bernie skyrocketing them. Bernie adding nearly 50% to the size of government, and the GOP calling him a communist while playing video of him praising Castro. - DONE. Game over.



And I really like the guy!! But, Clinton has been put thru the ringer, and there is nothing new they can hit her with. Everything they have hit her with has now been beaten to death and proved to be a bunch of shit.



Sanders is fresh meat they haven't even looked at yet. That is scary.





As for independents, I think in the big scheme of things you're gonna get a split between Hillary and Trump. A sensible, middle of the road indy that is pro-choice, wants gun control, wants someone who cares about the environment, and someone with actual foreign policy knowledge is a shoe in in for Clinton. Would Sanders do better with Indys? probably.



BUT

I also believe that Clinton will CRUSH with both Latino and Black voters, AND with women in a way that no one else can, especially against Trump or even Cruz.

I think a lot of minority voters would sit home if it's Sanders / Trump.



That is all



peace.

I agree with a lot of this (if not all).

The Bernie supporters I've talked with point me to his website "how Bernie will pay for his stuff ...."

Which details how he'll tax corporations more, especially off shores, etc

But they don't realize that income taxes are going up too. They all assume corporations and other ideas will fund 100% of his proposals.

They won't. And it'll be a fucking disaster if this guy is the nominee.

Even if the numbers were to come down:

Trump : I get more $$$$
Sanders: I will owe more $$$$

Election over


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by womanfish

Just commenting on a few past topics since i haven't checked in a while.



First, the tax issue is a real problem.



Did the quick tax liability calculator at VOX and under Clinton, it goes up 90 bucks, under Sanders? 15,150!

I questioned the source the minute I saw it. If I recall correctly, it was created by some hardline libertarian? I don't recall. But, the point was to attack Sanders (because Clinton doesn't need to be attacked to be disliked anymore). I suggest actually reading the tax plans, not imagining someone is going to do all the work for you without any sort of drawback.

And no, I don't particularly support Sanders. I'm still very much so undecided between the two (and so I hope Sanders keeps fighting so I continue to have options).

With all the back and forth about who is the most electable versus Trump and Cruz - All it will take is commercial after commercial showing Trump lowering middle class taxes and Bernie skyrocketing them. Bernie adding nearly 50% to the size of government, and the GOP calling him a communist while playing video of him praising Castro. - DONE. Game over.

It's not that simple. Everything you've seen so far has made things clear. The old rules don't apply anymore. Sanders flat out refused to say anything shitty about Cuba or Castro on stage in Miami at the Univision debate. Yet, he's gaining on Clinton and his national numbers are unharmed. I do agree that Sanders is totally fresh meat and that could spell disaster. Or, he could be the anti-Trump equivalent. It's all very new. Trump continues to defy logic with his outsiderism. Something Clinton obviously doesn't have. That could be why Trump could beat her. That could be why Sanders is currently plowing Trump in H2H polls.

As for independents, I think in the big scheme of things you're gonna get a split between Hillary and Trump. A sensible, middle of the road indy that is pro-choice, wants gun control, wants someone who cares about the environment, and someone with actual foreign policy knowledge is a shoe in in for Clinton. Would Sanders do better with Indys? probably.

At the end of the day I don't see Trump winning independents at all. I don't think he will beat Sanders or Clinton, at this point. He's a maniac. While there are many crazies in this country, I think enough people will come around to their senses to defeat him.

BUT

I also believe that Clinton will CRUSH with both Latino and Black voters, AND with women in a way that no one else can, especially against Trump or even Cruz.

I think a lot of minority voters would sit home if it's Sanders / Trump.



That is all



peace.

I think Sanders will find his way with the black vote for sure, if he made it that far. And as for women and Latinos, they'll show up as anti-Trump, pro democrat voters. Regardless of who is on the ticket. This election will be about anti-Trumpism, and I don't think it's worth debating about on the democratic side as to who you put on the ticket. If Trump can actually win, he can beat either Sanders or Clinton. And it's because our nation is a bigger social mess than it seems. I don't think that's true.

[Irvine511]

Is Trump still going to be the nominee?

I think he'll be on the ballot, but not so sure he's going to be the nominee.

[Mack_Again]

I am feeling that considering current state of republican party, Donald will definitely be the nominee.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Is Trump still going to be the nominee?

I think he'll be on the ballot, but not so sure he's going to be the nominee.

Who else is going to be the nominee? Cruz? How does he get there?

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

if someone in here lives in San Francisco, they are going to tell you about how San Francisco is now more expensive than Manhattan. because this is what people form San Francisco talk about. being more expensive than Manhattan. and that being from San Francisco, despite being more more expensive than Manhattan, says a lot about them as a person. because San Francisco.

San Francisco.

and they're voting for Bernie.

https://youtu.be/TIjnmVkzOM4

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Id love to be in a city as nice as Melbourne where where $1800 a month gets you a 2-bedroom.

For real.

I was paying $1900 for a 1 bedroom in Toronto 5 years ago. When I lived in NYC, right on the border of Murray Hill and Grammercy Park in that map, it was $3600 for a studio. So...

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

https://youtu.be/TIjnmVkzOM4

such classic.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Who else is going to be the nominee? Cruz? How does he get there?

Paul Ryan? i don't know, but i do know that if Trump doesn't get the 1237 delegates or whatever it is, they're going to fuck him over at the convention. i mean, i would. they'll lose the election to save the party as he'll then run as a third party.

they also hate Cruz, so they may try to fuck him over too. and they're pretty contemptuous of their actual voters, so they'll fuck them over as well.

i predict lots of fuckery.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Paul Ryan? i don't know, but i do know that if Trump doesn't get the 1237 delegates or whatever it is, they're going to fuck him over at the convention. i mean, i would. they'll lose the election to save the party as he'll then run as a third party.



they also hate Cruz, so they may try to fuck him over too. and they're pretty contemptuous of their actual voters, so they'll fuck them over as well.



i predict lots of fuckery.

I doubt they will not choose Trump at the convention. They surely won't choose Cruz.

[trojanchick99]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Paul Ryan? i don't know, but i do know that if Trump doesn't get the 1237 delegates or whatever it is, they're going to fuck him over at the convention. i mean, i would. they'll lose the election to save the party as he'll then run as a third party.

they also hate Cruz, so they may try to fuck him over too. and they're pretty contemptuous of their actual voters, so they'll fuck them over as well.

i predict lots of fuckery.

For a party that is so socially conservative that's a lot of fucking. But yeah, of Trump does not win on the first ballot he will not be the nominee. Remember, the RNC will make the rules for the convention this summer and will make sure someone else "wins".

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Paul Ryan?

[BEAL]

I think Ryan ends up being your guy, Trump runs as 3rd party and you have a really low voter turnout


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by BEAL

Ryan

[womanfish]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I questioned the source the minute I saw it. If I recall correctly, it was created by some hardline libertarian? I don't recall. But, the point was to attack Sanders (because Clinton doesn't need to be attacked to be disliked anymore). I suggest actually reading the tax plans, not imagining someone is going to do all the work for you without any sort of drawback.

And no, I don't particularly support Sanders. I'm still very much so undecided between the two (and so I hope Sanders keeps fighting so I continue to have options).





It's not that simple. Everything you've seen so far has made things clear. The old rules don't apply anymore. Sanders flat out refused to say anything shitty about Cuba or Castro on stage in Miami at the Univision debate. Yet, he's gaining on Clinton and his national numbers are unharmed. I do agree that Sanders is totally fresh meat and that could spell disaster. Or, he could be the anti-Trump equivalent. It's all very new. Trump continues to defy logic with his outsiderism. Something Clinton obviously doesn't have. That could be why Trump could beat her. That could be why Sanders is currently plowing Trump in H2H polls.


At the end of the day I don't see Trump winning independents at all. I don't think he will beat Sanders or Clinton, at this point. He's a maniac. While there are many crazies in this country, I think enough people will come around to their senses to defeat him.




I think Sanders will find his way with the black vote for sure, if he made it that far. And as for women and Latinos, they'll show up as anti-Trump, pro democrat voters. Regardless of who is on the ticket. This election will be about anti-Trumpism, and I don't think it's worth debating about on the democratic side as to who you put on the ticket. If Trump can actually win, he can beat either Sanders or Clinton. And it's because our nation is a bigger social mess than it seems. I don't think that's true.

Lots of great points here.

VOX has always seemed really liberal to me, but I should take it with a grain of salt. I'm sure it was slanted to make Sanders look bad.
Either way, I still like Hillary's proposals better, find them much more likely to actually be implemented, and if on top of that, it comes with little to no tax increase, then all the better.

I also agree that this year, everything seems to be out the window as far as what to expect. And the anti Trump will be big. Lots of regular Repubs sitting the whole thing out. Moderate Repubs voting Dem. But a surge in male, white angry support for Trump. Luckily that aint enough.

I like Bernie, i truly do. Was a huge fan of his, but have moved to Hillary. I'm a life-long Dem and there are just too many things piling up with him that don't sit well with me. (That said, i will vote for him in a heartbeat if he's the nom)

I don't think the whole socialist, Castro thing phases Dems very much. Same goes for higher taxes and growth of government. But put it out to low info Repub and indy voters, and I think it's a done deal. They all thought (and still do) that Obama is a socialist Muslim. So this will be a cake walk.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

Top Republicans talking up Paul Ryan as nominee - POLITICO

[PhilsFan]

Matt Yglesias is a grade-A moron, I take anything from Vox with a large grain of salt.

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Paul Ryan