2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part XI

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by BigMacPhisto

Atheists skew younger and the younger skew Sanders. Atheists have higher IQs given the information we have out there. Argument over.

I told you to move on. We're not doing this.

[Popmartijn]

Originally Posted by Diemen

I told you to move on. We're not doing this.

Ah, give him some slack. He is probably nervous with some actual more intellectually minded people around him. It's a big gap he has to cross, but you can see he's trying.

[Diemen]

Also, let's not get into casually insulting other posters' intelligence, please.

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

For the love of all that is good, STOP.

Also, regarding the discussion about Clinton's history of support of gay rights...remember how Obama wasn't fully on board with same-sex marriage when he ran in 2008?

And yet, what got legalized - nationwide, no less - on his watch last year...?

I was going to mention this. Dan Savage, who is gay and I would think had a lot more riding on this than those of us who aren't gay, straight up said this when Obama came out in favor:

Dan Savage, columnist for the Seattle alt-weekly magazine The Stranger, appeared on the Tuesday broadcast of MSNBC's All In with Chris Hayes to react to David Axelrod's revelation that President Obama always supported gay marriage all along and he was the one that advised then-Senator Obama to publicly oppose gay marriage in order to get alerted.

Savage said Obama "was going to pretend to oppose gay marriage" while fellow activists in the gay community "would pretend to believe him." Savage also said we can't be so "naive" to believe that politicians should be honest 100% of the time.

"We news this all along," Savage, a well-known columnist on gay issues, said. "We joked -- I wrote at the time when the president was opposed to marriage equality during the campaign, and in his first term, that he was going to pretend to oppose marriage equality and we would pretend to believe him, those of us who are activists, and we would hold his feet to the fire."

Savage said "nobody" in the gay community believed Obama when he went from being in favor of gay marriage early in his political career to opposing it during the 2008 election and then being pro gay marriage again prior to the 2012 election.

"Nobody I think in the LGBT civil rights movement believed him when he went from being pro marriage equality in 1996 to oppose to for it again," Savage said.

"That's not the way that people evolve on this issue," Savage explained. "People evolve in one direction. People move from opposition to support. I never heard of a case, except for the president, where we are supposed to buy somebody evolving on it then devolving on it then revolving on it as the president did."

Savage called this "useful political theater" and praised Axelrod's "political calculation" that "benefited LGBT people in this country tremendously."

"It was useful political theater," Savage said. "I agree with David Axelrod and the president that the country wasn't ready in 2008 for a ticket of a national candidate who supported marriage equality. And by pragmatically making this choice to jettison his support for marriage equality the president managed to bring the country along by making his discomfort with the political calculation he clearly made part of the drama and part of the performance of his office and it benefited LGBT people in this country tremendously."

Savage later excused the Obama political strategy because it's "naive to believe that politicians are 100% straight with us all the time, nor do we want them to be 100% straight with us all the time."

"I think we can't be so naive as to think that politicians are 100% straight with us all of the time, nor do we don't want them to be 100% straight with us all of the time," he said.

"it's not a violation i think of the pact between politician and public," Savage added. "It is a part of what politics and moving public opinion is all about."

"I guarantee," Savage said, "I believe in my heart that Axelrod ran that by the president before he published it."

It's the same with Hillary. Are seriously supposed to believe that she was ever against gay marriage? It was political expediency.

Obama famously said "make me do it". if we believe in progressive things, like some of the things Sanders got Hillary and the DNC to put in the platform, the $15 minimum wage, the public option(which could ultimately lead to universal healthcare down the line), free tuition for public universities, and we want her to live up to that platform, we have to make her do it. To paraphrase Dan Savage, "hold her feet to the fire".

[iron yuppie]

Well, there probably was a time when Hillary wasn't entirely comfortable with SSM, especially given the culture she grew up in. But people's views on these things change, which is a big reason why the "flip-flopper" or "expediency" accusations never made sense to me, whether applied to Hillary or anyone else.

[diamond]

Dont know if the link Im providing this is true but there seems to be an avalanche of evidence it is.

Sorry guys but it does look like the DNC is using "fillers" for the final night, 40 percent are now out protesting leaving the arena half empty MSM refuses to cover favoring HRC-not fair, or objective reporting.

And I do know general elections are extremely emotional times. My sweetheart wife is a staunch Liberal but we do well together, so i get how many are so vested in this emotionally.

Sorry for the truth:

https://www.conservativeoutfitters.c...e-voters-video


<>

[Moonlit_Angel]

EXACTLY, namkcuR. You gotta play the game to try and get the votes. I honestly never once doubted that Obama himself was personally fine with same-sex marriage. The fact that Obama also spoke out earlier this year in support of transgender people being able to use the bathroom of their choice just further proved that-I could see someone who actually had legit struggled with same-sex marriage eventually coming around and supporting that, but still being uncertain on their stance regarding transgender issues. That'd be a baby steps sort of move for someone like that, you know?

But Obama came right out in full support of them. That, to me, indicates he's been fully on board with LGBT rights from the get-go. Plus, we've seen how quietly sneaky Obama can be with how he plays the political game, so it makes total sense he'd have used those kinds of moves in 2008.

And I think Clinton's support is sincere as well. I have no doubt whatsoever that if she wins in November, she will do everything in her power to make sure the LGBT community is protected and supported. And the Democratic Party will back her. I saw an article online earlier this week that detailed the LGBT platform for the Democrats and, cripes, the difference between their platform and the GOP's is flat out night and day.

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

But people's views on these things change, which is a big reason why the "flip-flopper" or "expediency" accusations never made sense to me, whether applied to Hillary or anyone else.

Agreed.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by diamond

Dont know if the link Im providing this is true but





<>

Do you know what they call this? Shit throwing; you're throwing shit on the wall and see if anything sticks.

Do you know what that means if you have to resort to this type of argument? You're a monkey or you have no argument or both.



Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[anitram]

When you people all keep quoting him it forces those of us who had the good sense to put him on the Ignore list years ago to read his drivel again.

[gump]

Originally Posted by anitram

When you people all keep quoting him it forces those of us who had the good sense to put him on the Ignore list years ago to read his drivel again.

Seriously.

[bobsaget77]

Originally Posted by diamond

Dont know if the link Im providing this is true but there seems to be an avalanche of evidence it is.



Sorry guys but it does look like the DNC is using "fillers" for the final night, 40 percent are now out protesting leaving the arena half empty MSM refuses to cover favoring HRC-not fair, or objective reporting.



And I do know general elections are extremely emotional times. My sweetheart wife is a staunch Liberal but we do well together, so i get how many are so vested in this emotionally.



Sorry for the truth:



https://www.conservativeoutfitters.c...e-voters-video





<>

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[gump]

.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by bobsaget77

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Facts? Where I'm going we don't need any facts.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by diamond

[obvious troll being obvious]

Oh, look, you didn't get my message on trolling.

Also, I thought you were leaving. Let me help you out the door. Bye now.

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by BVS

Facts? Where I'm going we don't need any facts.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

Sent from my iPad using U2 Interference

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by BVS

Do you know what they call this? Shit throwing; you're throwing shit on the wall and see if anything sticks.

Do you know what that means if you have to resort to this type of argument? You're a monkey or you have no argument or both.



Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

Don't be calling people monkeys. I think Diamond identifies as a Homo Sapiens.

[Kieran McConville]

I don't think I've ever said a thing on this forum, ever, that warranted a page and a half of people requoting me. I doubt Brother Diamond is that interesting.

[gump]

That speech by Khzir Khan - the Muslim American father of the soldier in Iraq - really hit me hard. Most powerful moment of the DNC.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Hillary Clinton crawled through a river of shit and came out clean on the other side

[prbiker15]

Of course someone as recognizable as Morgan Freeman had to narrate the video introducing her.