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Old 07-06-2016, 01:46 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by anitram View Post
That's just the thing. We're not suppose to take seriously what he says? OK, then on which basis are we to evaluate his "platform" or policies? If we're not listening to his words, then essentially we're constructing a narrative in our heads which guesses at what he'd actually do if elected.

Now to be fair I don't think it matters as none of us who realize this will probably vote for him. The people voting for him are the ones who are actually taking him seriously and agreeing with him.
I think I'm getting misunderstood. I take everything that he says seriously. LIke I said, if he had his way, he would do those things in a heartbeat. And yes, that would seem to mean chopping off heads and drowning people.
But currently, a president cannot just make that happen. The Geneva convention is a high hurdle. Not saying he wouldn't try to get around the laws, or put orders in place to circumvent things.

I am first on the list of being terrified of him anywhere near the white house.

On a lighter note.
In his incoherent, unhinged rant of a rally yesterday, he said this

I was the first person to ever use the word 'rigged', everything is rigged...
No one had said that before me. I asked some longtime political pros if anyone had ever used the term 'rigged' before and they said, No, you're the first one.
LMAO!!
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:46 PM   #202
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The US does what it can to avoid collateral damage with Drones. I do not believe that we purposely bomb weddings, schools, missionaries, etc just because. We received what was believed as credible information, and sometimes it's wrong. It's horrible, but inevitable in war.

Drones and the use of special forces have done more to take out terrorists than invading countries and destabilizing the region.

I see it as a middle ground of all out invasion, and complete withdrawal from the region.

I also believe that the US Military goes to great lengths to pay reparations to the families/victims of strikes gone bad. I was listening to a podcast of a former special force vet, who's new job is going around the country doing seminars on leadership (among other traits) who said in Iraq, and other countries, if the US made a mistake and killed innocents, or just destroyed their homes and lively-hood, we made payments, and even tried to help rebuild what was lost.

Does it make up for a death, or even loss of history/home? No, but it's not as brutal as a bunch of grunts coming in, shooting up the place, and then leaving.
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Old 07-06-2016, 01:57 PM   #203
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The US does what it can to avoid collateral damage with Drones. I do not believe that we purposely bomb weddings, schools, missionaries, etc just because. We received what was believed as credible information, and sometimes it's wrong.
I can agree with this, too.

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I also believe that the US Military goes to great lengths to pay reparations to the families/victims of strikes gone bad. I was listening to a podcast of a former special force vet, who's new job is going around the country leading seminars on leadership (among other traits) who said in Iraq, and other countries, if the US made a mistake and killed innocents, or just destroyed their homes and lively-hood, we made payments, and even tried to help rebuild what was lost.
That's pretty admirable. Yeah, concerns about foreign policy and drones aside, I certainly don't want to demonize our soldiers' intentions overseas (obviously we have had examples of soldiers who've behaved hideously, for sure, but I think most soldiers honestly try their best to do good and set a proper example for the military and the U.S. at large).

My mistrust is more related to the U.S. government who makes these foreign policy decisions much of the time. Especially since some of the government officials who make these decisions don't seem to have the military know-how or experience that would be helpful/necessary to make these calls.

Having said that, however, in regards to Obama and his administration, I honestly do believe that he is, like you noted in your post, trying to find a middle ground of keeping us involved while trying to minimize death and destruction as much as possible. I would definitely not place him in the "warmonger" category.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:03 PM   #204
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Well we really don't know how serious to take him. That's the problem.



He actually said, "I love waterboarding" "I think it's great". No world leader should say that. Will he nuke Europe? We don't know, will he be reasonable or get drunk off power? Will he have a knee jerk reaction because of his paper thin skin? Seriously or not, he's an unknown and that kind of unknown his dangerous, so at the end of the day you have to take that seriously.

Yeah but a week before that he probably said torture is evil.

Obviously we dont know what to take seriously. But if there's one part you should take seriously, it's his tactical placement of wordbombs that make the media freak. I think it's not ridiculous to say Donald Trump lies about all of his extreme viewpoints, minus perhaps his xenophobia. His life leading up to his "republican transformation" is evidence of that.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:06 PM   #205
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Well, I know he can't actually DO the things he says. But the only reason he can't is because there are current laws, treaties, guidelines, etc... to keep him from doing it. I do actually think he would do those things if he had free reign.

But the fact remains, that you would have someone in office with that level of disgustingness, dangerousness and complete disregard for a real solution. (I know there is probably no REAL solution, but some solutions are much better than others)

Well, I don't think my point was whether or not he could do these things. I was making a point about how everything he says is just a freaking joke. He's got no idea what he's doing. You shouldn't be worried about whether or not he loves waterboarding. We've had presidents waterboard before. You should be worried about how when Donald Trump gets into office, he won't have a fucking clue what he's doing at all. That's what scares me the most.
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Old 07-06-2016, 02:54 PM   #206
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Clinton and her followers are the sick ones.
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Old 07-06-2016, 04:48 PM   #207
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I think I'm getting misunderstood. I take everything that he says seriously. LIke I said, if he had his way, he would do those things in a heartbeat. And yes, that would seem to mean chopping off heads and drowning people.
I think you and I are on the same page, my response was more to LN7 saying that we shouldn't take Trump seriously. Which I agree with in theory, it's just that if we can't take seriously anything he says (because yes, it's ridiculous), then what do we do with him as a candidate? I mean I guess I go back to why the hell is he still up there...
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:02 PM   #208
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I think you and I are on the same page, my response was more to LN7 saying that we shouldn't take Trump seriously. Which I agree with in theory, it's just that if we can't take seriously anything he says (because yes, it's ridiculous), then what do we do with him as a candidate? I mean I guess I go back to why the hell is he still up there...

I suppose I'm not so much saying "don't take him seriously" as I am saying "don't waste your time legitimizing his banter." We should be focusing on how this man is not fit for just about any political office, let alone POTUS. Don't ask yourself whether or not you want a wall that Mexico will pay for. Ask yourself whether or not Donald Trump made that up on the spot... the real danger of Trump isn't his desire to build a wall. It's the fact that he doesn't have a god damn clue what he's doing.
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Old 07-06-2016, 05:07 PM   #209
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I believe this.

Experts: Donald Trump Is Lying About His Fundraising Haul - The Daily Beast
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Old 07-06-2016, 11:07 PM   #210
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Chilcot, anyone?
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Old 07-07-2016, 12:09 AM   #211
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How does that help Hillary? We won't need to have any discussion about it.
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Old 07-07-2016, 10:05 AM   #212
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You have a natural tendency
To squeeze off a shot
You're good fun at parties
You wear the right masks
You're old but you still
Like a laugh in the locker room
You can't abide change
You're at home an the range
You opened your suitcase
Behind the old workings
To show off the magnum
You deafened the canyon
A comfort a friend
Only upstaged in the end
By the Uzi machine gun
Does the recoil remind you
Remind you of sex
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
I looked over Jordan and what did I see
Saw a U.S. Marine in a pile of debris
I swam in your pools
And lay under your palm trees
I looked in the eyes of the Indian
Who lay on the Federal Building steps
And through the range finder over the hill
I saw the frontline boys popping their pills
Sick of the mess they find
On their desert stage
And the bravery of being out of range
Yeah the question is vexed
Old man what the hell you gonna kill next
Old timer who you gonna kill next
Hey bartender over here
Two more shots
And two more beers
Sir turn up the TV sound
The war has started on the ground
Just love those laser guided bombs
They're really great
For righting wrongs
You hit the target
And win the game
From bars 3,000 miles away
3,000 miles away
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
We zap and maim
With the bravery of being out of range
We strafe the train
With the bravery of being out of range
We gained terrain
With the bravery of being out of range
With the bravery of being out of range
We play the game
With the bravery of being out of range
fuck drones.
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Old 07-07-2016, 08:25 PM   #213
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https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...?CMP=edit_2221
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Old 07-07-2016, 08:59 PM   #214
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They have their reasons, certainly, and are entitled to an investigation. Obviously, they probably wish they could have done it concurrently with the FBI so this would all get over with sooner, but I understand why they had suspended their investigation at the time.
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Old 07-11-2016, 09:13 PM   #215
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"In the early 2016 wave of the Institute for the Study of Citizenship and Politics panel that I conducted with my University of Pennsylvania colleague Diana Mutz and others, we asked respondents who they support. We then asked a follow-up question about why. In their answers, Sanders supporters were more than three times as likely as Clinton supporters to name a policy position, with 19 percent of his backers naming policies such as wealth redistribution and health care. That is certainly in keeping with the idea that Sanders’s left-leaning positions are a reason some people were feeling the Bern."

Does Bernie Sanders Represent The Future Of The Democratic Party? | FiveThirtyEight

Name recognition. That's all it was for Clinton's primary victory.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:06 PM   #216
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Mate, the dead horse has turned to glue.
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Old 07-11-2016, 10:58 PM   #217
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I'm hoping the herd will be thinned out over the next week or so due to Pokémon related deaths. By August we should be able to get some real work done towards solving our problems.
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Old 07-11-2016, 11:26 PM   #218
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"In the early 2016 wave of the Institute for the Study of Citizenship and Politics panel that I conducted with my University of Pennsylvania colleague Diana Mutz and others, we asked respondents who they support. We then asked a follow-up question about why. In their answers, Sanders supporters were more than three times as likely as Clinton supporters to name a policy position, with 19 percent of his backers naming policies such as wealth redistribution and health care. That is certainly in keeping with the idea that Sanders’s left-leaning positions are a reason some people were feeling the Bern."

Does Bernie Sanders Represent The Future Of The Democratic Party? | FiveThirtyEight

Name recognition. That's all it was for Clinton's primary victory.

Stating "health care" or "wealth distribution" is a platitude it's not a plan. It's like stating "I want a wall".


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Old 07-12-2016, 01:33 AM   #219
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The voters were stating a policy position of Sanders and were three times as likely to name one for him than Clinton supporters were for their candidate. What's so hard to understand about that?

Are you honestly going to argue that the 80 year-olds living on a farm voting for Clinton or black females in Chicago's south side that barely graduated high school know more about politics than the young people of America today, the most educated generation in American history?

A famous name can get you far. See: Trump and Bush, W.
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Old 07-12-2016, 02:03 AM   #220
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Are you honestly going to argue that the 80 year-olds living on a farm voting for Clinton or black females in Chicago's south side that barely graduated high school know more about politics than the young people of America today, the most educated generation in American history?
Yes, because that's a totally unbiased and fair representation of the people who voted in the primaries. Only highly educated people voted for Bernie, and only dumb ignorant women voted for Hillary, right? (seriously, do you hear how you come across sometimes?)

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