2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part X

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dazzledbylight said:
And besides all that Ben as a secular Jew, and then a (democratic) socialist would just wither too many votes away....
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Still unfounded and unproven and contradicts everything we were seeing with polling. Not that it matters at all anymore.

Any Democrat would have had smooth sailing over Trump, that's for certain. Doubt there's more than a handful in this country that would be left-leaning and then say "Oh, but this guy has Socialist attached to his name so I'm going to go with the man who wants to build a wall."

The middle is non-existent in our polarized society and it will never return. Your world outlook is generally one way or the other with some government-haters (Libertarians) somewhere in the middle.
 
WF

I don't know anything about J Stien why the loathing?

IY

oh, it is such an embarrassment at the low % of voting in our county!!!
Andd now w all the new impediments to voting enacted by Republican
State Legislatures...? I think one was recently thrown out by federal life vel court?

I was in the first year of 18 yr voters back in 1971! In was so happy. I've voted in almost every election since then. Even w the flaws, frustrations and sometimes horrify iing things thgthgat are part of, have happened, continue to happen- do my best I can to keep moving our country to a better place, better chances, outcomes for more & more people.
 
No there is still some middle ground.
And really depends who's doing the polling how he questions were asked etc

And you seemed to have ignored a pure numbers chart posted by ?Headache that definitely showed Hillary winning more in x contests than Bernie. Too tire too scroll through several thousand screen caps ofl many of interests to find it. With you saying such and such about those particular contests...and it just wasn't true.
 
WF

Let's , hope we can get the Is Senate/House back to blue!

With the extreme gerrymandering by Republican Legislations ...?
Hopefully Trump will have a withering effect down ballot!y

I think we have a chance were were didn't before.
And while the usual pattern with mid-term elections is to revert to the opposite party...
say we keep the WH, get the Senate back but don't quite get The House, hopefully people who voted for Hillary, and ,a a blue senatee will be soooo frustrated...they'll make sure good house will go blue (Senate stays blue) with h a reelected Hillary.

I don't love, I like her, I like some, love some of what she's done/attempted to do. that's good enough for me right now :up:
 
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Oregoropa said:
Yup. Gingrich and FNC have suspended their contract.'


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Wait...what!?!??! I hadn't heard this yet. I thought Phil fan was at least half joking.

:crack: :crack:

Do you peeps think Gingrinch would give up what I assumed is a fairly lucrative gig at Fox News unless he was the actual Veep chose ce by Trump.

breath deep ....
 
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BigMacPhisto said:
Still unfounded and unproven and contradicts everything we were seeing with polling. Not that it matters at all anymore.

Any Democrat would have had smooth sailing over Trump, that's for certain. Doubt there's more than a handful in this country that would be left-leaning and then say "Oh, but this guy has Socialist attached to his name so I'm going to go with the man who wants to build a wall."

The middle is non-existent in our polarized society and it will never return. Your world outlook is generally one way or the other with some government-haters (Libertarians) somewhere in the middle.
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Oh this magic polling, that you've been asked to about and failed to produce everytime.

If you don't think "socialist" gives people pause and there's no middle you're extremely disconnected.

Economically you give several on the left pause, and on the right you strike up fear. So one side stays home or goes 3rd party and the other has record numbers; it's not that hard to see.


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BVS said:
If you don't think "socialist" gives people pause and there's no middle you're extremely disconnected.
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I don't think the socialist tag would be particularly damaging, honestly. The kind of people who would have drummed up controversy over that are now far more concerned with brown people as their perceived enemy rather than socialists.

The thing that would have really troubled Bernie is his tax proposals. For a middle class that has been struggling with wage stagnation for so long, the tax hike plans might have been a death knell for him.
 
iron yuppie said:
I don't think the socialist tag would be particularly damaging, honestly. The kind of people who would have drummed up controversy over that are now far more concerned with brown people as their perceived enemy rather than socialists.

The thing that would have really troubled Bernie is his tax proposals. For a middle class that has been struggling with wage stagnation for so long, the tax hike plans might have been a death knell for him.
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Nahhhhhhh. It would just confirm how much our country is going to hell! A fucking commie is running for president! Dey tuk err jerbs!
 
iron yuppie said:
The thing that would have really troubled Bernie is his tax proposals. For a middle class that has been struggling with wage stagnation for so long, the tax hike plans might have been a death knell for him.
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This was a big concern for me as well. Under his plan, I was going to be paying a lot more taxes.
 
iron yuppie said:
I don't think the socialist tag would be particularly damaging, honestly. The kind of people who would have drummed up controversy over that are now far more concerned with brown people as their perceived enemy rather than socialists.
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Oh believe me, if you read a Breitbart article or listen to am radio they're still trying to attach this label to Obama and Hillary as much as they can. There was a poster not too long ago who posted that they didn't believe Sanders would push the progressive agenda as much as Hillary, they spend 90% of their energy drumming up this kind of fear. Can you imagine if they didn't have to try? Sanders was never a target because there was never a threat that he would get the nomination, but if he had Sanders would be a slam dunk for them.


iron yuppie said:
The thing that would have really troubled Bernie is his tax proposals. For a middle class that has been struggling with wage stagnation for so long, the tax hike plans might have been a death knell for him.
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As would most of the country. The young and the very rich are the only ones that weren't thinking about this, hence why his support was very much lopsided that way.
 
Yep, same here. Too much for me to live comfortably. If I were still in Des Moines, I could probably still be OK, but living in San Diego, losing anywhere from 700-900 bucks a month is too much.

His tax policy wasn't as aggressive at the top as I would have thought. I am by no means an elite, 1%. Hell, I'm probably barely upper middle class, and yet his plan seemed to hurt me more than someone who made 3x as much.

I think these ideas are worth pursuing, but only if it's in a logical way. To just scream Wall Street and CEOs isn't going to cut it. His plans just didn't seem to make sense, and were based on major assumptions of the economy.

But guys, he's the greatest human being who's ever been. He had 25 years in the Senate and renamed a few Post Offices. His record speaks for itself ;)

I am VERY curious to see if Clinton holds onto these college and health care plans that she's adjusted to pull in more from the left. I do have my doubts, but I think realistically she'll put them up, and congress will shit on it. She'll get the blame though.

Which reminds me I feel like Obama and the Dems got a bit of a pass for the original ACA. They controlled both houses, and still couldn't get the public option thrown in. That is probably my biggest disappointment in his time here. That and some of the Iraq/Libya stuff too. But in the latter, I feel he was acting in the best interests and dealt a shitty hand
 
The most important thing a president can do for the middle class is ease existing student debt and mitigate future student debt. IMO this is the foremost economic issue facing the United States right now, because what you are seeing is entire generations being delayed in making basic investments in property, business, or even life choices like having kids. On the other side parents are having to dedicate some of their nest eggs to their kids in need of support as adults. Every young person who comes out of college with 500+ dollars a month in debt retards the economy.
 
iron yuppie said:
The most important thing a president can do for the middle class is ease existing student debt and mitigate future student debt. IMO this is the foremost economic issue facing the United States right now, because what you are seeing is entire generations being delayed in making basic investments in property, business, or even life choices like having kids. On the other side parents are having to dedicate some of their nest eggs to their kids in need of support as adults. Every young person who comes out of college with 500+ dollars a month in debt retards the economy.
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Good point on the life choices of having kids. Even though my household is generally well off, the fact that we're dishing out well over $1,000 per month in childcare is ridiculous, which is making it much harder to save for the future. And that's probably on the bright side of the middle class.
 
BVS said:
Oh believe me, if you read a Breitbart article or listen to am radio they're still trying to attach this label to Obama and Hillary as much as they can.
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Hoooo, boy, they never gave up on calling The Clintons some variant of socialists communists! since the 90's.



Let alone that Commie! FDR for Social Security etc
:wink:
 
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College debt relief is definity high on middle class families, or potential families list. Continuing to make health more afford, too. More decent paying job especially at the lower middle class level.

Yeah, I sure wish President Obama had left the public option on the table... but...

there still is a back door way to get to it.
Yes, it will take more time at first.. The ACA allows a state (along w other experiments in health care delivery/costs ) to try the Public Oppotion!

I believe Vermont is in the process of working this up. Bernie :applaud:

It's a possibility because that's how it started in Canada; in one of it's Provinces! :shifty:
When people started seeing g how good it was- dominoes falling on private health care.
 
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Oregoropa said:
Okie Doke


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98375b18d970c1f00c2babb1ff1604519c658e0ea0e347e8c67c75e75ab11cf7.jpg


THIS actually existed...
 
BVS said:
Oh this magic polling, that you've been asked to about and failed to produce everytime.
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No, I was referring to the heads-up matchup polling that consistently showed Sanders doing much better against Republican candidates.
 
BigMacPhisto said:
No, I was referring to the heads-up matchup polling that consistently showed Sanders doing much better against Republican candidates.
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As we explained over and over, don't put too much stock in early polling that puts party vs party and the candidates haven't even been chosen. Sanders never truly got vetted. And saying that that polling shows a big swing left and that socialism is now acceptable is a huge leap.


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BigMacPhisto said:
No, I was referring to the heads-up matchup polling that consistently showed Sanders doing much better against Republican candidates.
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Give credence to the polls that show your preferred remaining candidate doing well.

You can't put too much stock in those 'other' polls. ;)
 
Bluer White said:
Give credence to the polls that show your preferred remaining candidate doing well.



You can't put too much stock in those 'other' polls. ;)
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Come on now, I've been very consistent on my positions with polls and haven't posted any polls in here trying to backup any view.


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