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Old 03-05-2016, 01:59 PM   #241
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Nope. Obama wasn't vulnerable. The country measurably improved by almost every metric from 08-12, and has continued to do so. He is scandal free. He's a decent, well-mannered person with a lovely family who have been exemplary. You may disagree with his policies, but it's nonsense to paint him as having been lucky. He soundly beat the two best possible Republicans, as well as Hillary Clinton. That isn't luck. That's a formidable politician operating at the top of his game in a country that generally likes and supports him.

Instead of saying Romeny was a terrible candidate, why not just say that he has terrible ideas and championed terrible policies that were rejected by the American people?

Obama has been a terrible president and his first term was a disaster, that's why he was vulnerable. And no, Romney was a terrible candidate. As was McCain.
I'm not going to waste my time debating you on this because I won't convince you otherwise. You're a typical, liberal blind sheep. I know you'll try to spin this and play victim like always, so I'm ready for it.


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Old 03-05-2016, 02:09 PM   #242
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Obama has been a terrible president and his first term was a disaster

Why do you consider him a terrible president when as Irvine correctly stated, the country improved by almost every available metric?



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Old 03-05-2016, 02:09 PM   #243
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I implore you to read about his personal life. From the illnesses to the substance abuse to the reform.

The dude is crazy, sure, but it's easy to be sympathetic. He backed gay marriage before it was a thing. He's got some decent philanthropy. He's overall a socially... respectable... human being.

Oh, and he left the Repube party because of the ineffective behaviors of people like Ted Cruz, who think shutting the government down is a good way to get what you want. Disagree with the view all you want, but I find that respectable.

Beck is a huge Ted Cruz supporter. He's done several campaign speeches for him.


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Old 03-05-2016, 02:18 PM   #244
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

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Originally Posted by nbelcik View Post
Why do you consider him a terrible president when as Irvine correctly stated, the country improved by almost every available metric?



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Our national debt has skyrocketed since he took office. Obviously, Bush increased the deficit as well, but under the Obama administration, our debt has doubled; we cannot sustain this kind of debt. Eventually, open market operations can only take us so far.
The pull out of Iraq was a disaster. We should have never been there, but he handled it terribly. Libya and Egypt were handled even worse. Led to radical Islam taking over both countries!
Obamacare is a disaster. It needs to be repealed and replaced.
Our racial divisions are worse than they've been since the 60's and his leadership throughout has been abysmal.
Yes, the economy was a mess when he took office, but this has been the slowest recovery since the Great Depression. Record numbers of people who have dropped out of the work force.
I could go on and on...


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Old 03-05-2016, 02:25 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by bobsaget77 View Post
Obama has been a terrible president and his first term was a disaster, that's why he was vulnerable. And no, Romney was a terrible candidate. As was McCain.
I'm not going to waste my time debating you on this because I won't convince you otherwise. You're a typical, liberal blind sheep. I know you'll try to spin this and play victim like always, so I'm ready for it.


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Hello, pot? This is the kettle calling.
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Old 03-05-2016, 02:26 PM   #246
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Originally Posted by bobsaget77 View Post
Our national debt has skyrocketed since he took office. Obviously, Bush increased the deficit as well, but under the Obama administration, our debt has doubled; we cannot sustain this kind of debt. Eventually, open market operations can only take us so far.
The pull out of Iraq was a disaster. We should have never been there, but he handled it terribly. Libya and Egypt were handled even worse. Led to radical Islam taking over both countries!
Obamacare is a disaster. It needs to be repealed and replaced.
Our racial divisions are worse than they've been since the 60's and his leadership throughout has been abysmal.
Yes, the economy was a mess when he took office, but this has been the slowest recovery since the Great Depression. Record numbers of people who have dropped out of the work force.
I could go on and on...


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Baaa.
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Old 03-05-2016, 02:35 PM   #247
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Hello, pot? This is the kettle calling.

My name's not Pot. These are inanimate objects. How could they possibly communicate?


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Old 03-05-2016, 02:44 PM   #248
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Sorry Oregoropa, you're wrong. I was watching the show and it was directed at his co host Stu, not Trump. They're good buds and were fooling around.
Already been proven that it was wrongly reported.
Trumpbart.....excuse me Breitbart...ran with the story of course. The Trump people are out to get Beck because he has Trump pegged down and will not stop attacking him.

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Breitbart has NEVER needed facts, because he knows his audience doesn't care for them.


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Old 03-05-2016, 02:48 PM   #249
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Of course Obama was a terrible president to those living in the right wing media bubble. They were told that everyday, so it must be true.

And this myth that racial tensions are worst because of Obama is absolutely laughable.


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Old 03-05-2016, 02:54 PM   #250
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Name one Republican politician who would have beaten Obama in 2008 and/or in 2012.

It should be easy to do. Obama is objectively terrible, and McCain/Romney were just bad candidates.
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:09 PM   #251
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Name one Republican politician who would have beaten Obama in 2008 and/or in 2012.

It should be easy to do. Obama is objectively terrible, and McCain/Romney were just bad candidates.

No one would have beat Obama in 2008. That was Obama's year for sure. The republicans never stood a chance, nor did they deserve to. We were coming off 8 years of a weak republican president and a terrible republican congress. Obama got people excited and was what the democrats needed. Also helped that McCain was a weak candidate and Palin...well that goes without saying.
In 2012, Chris Christie could have beat Obama. He was very popular at the time and actually led vs. Obama in many speculative polls. He ran four years too late. Romney could have won, but he ran a terrible campaign. In fact, I think he would have been a good president, just ran a terrible campaign and flubbed the last 2 debates. Credit to Obama, he is an excellent speaker and debater. Plus, he ran two very good campaigns.

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Old 03-05-2016, 03:13 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by bobsaget77 View Post
My name's not Pot. These are inanimate objects. How could they possibly communicate?


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what do you think of Fuller House, Bobsaget?
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Old 03-05-2016, 03:13 PM   #253
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

And obviously, Herman Cain would have won in 2012 if the hoes hadn't come out and brought a man down. Not a doubt in my mind. Name:  ImageUploadedByU2 Interference1457208808.963980.jpg
Views: 43
Size:  39.0 KB


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Old 03-05-2016, 03:14 PM   #254
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what do you think of Fuller House, Bobsaget?

The first two episodes weren't good.


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Old 03-05-2016, 03:26 PM   #255
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Name:	ImageUploadedByU2 Interference1457209489.213501.jpg
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ID:	10626
This is on the front page of Breitbart. Wtf.


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Old 03-05-2016, 03:31 PM   #256
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Neither Christie or Cain could ever win the presidency, even if they up against Deez Nuts. They don't have national appeal in their own party.


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Old 03-05-2016, 04:00 PM   #257
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Neither Christie or Cain could ever win the presidency, even if they up against Deez Nuts. They don't have national appeal in their own party.


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I was clearly joking about Herman Cain.
Christie doesn't have appeal now because of the Hurricane Sandy thing where he helped Obama immensely and praised him a few days before the election. Turned a lot of people off for him. Then all the scandals. But in 2012, he was popular amongst all republicans.


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Old 03-05-2016, 04:26 PM   #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobsaget77 View Post
Our national debt has skyrocketed since he took office. Obviously, Bush increased the deficit as well, but under the Obama administration, our debt has doubled; we cannot sustain this kind of debt. Eventually, open market operations can only take us so far.
The pull out of Iraq was a disaster. We should have never been there, but he handled it terribly. Libya and Egypt were handled even worse. Led to radical Islam taking over both countries!
Obamacare is a disaster. It needs to be repealed and replaced.
Our racial divisions are worse than they've been since the 60's and his leadership throughout has been abysmal.
Yes, the economy was a mess when he took office, but this has been the slowest recovery since the Great Depression. Record numbers of people who have dropped out of the work force.
I could go on and on...


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I'll let this concise post from thomhartman.com respond about the national debt:

Quote:
If you listen and watch conservative media - you'll see that the latest talking point is that "Obama's doubled the national debt during this presidency" They repeat it over and over again. It renders liberals speechless. Here's the proper response:

For starters, it's not true. The day Obama took office the debt was 10.626 trillion. It's now at 18.150 trillion. And while he has added 70.2% - it's not double. And it get's better. How much money has the federal gov't spent since he bacame president on ALL expenses related to the illegal and unfortunate decision to invade Iraq. I don't know the answer to this - but I would guess it's in the 1.5 - 2 trillion range. Subtract that from the 18.150 and you have one of the best stewardship's of the budget since Jimmy Carter.

Here's the best arguement. When a conserveative brings up the doubling of the debt - ask them if by doubling the debt would that automactically make them a terrible president. They'll say it does. And they'll say it with passion because they think that Obama is the only modern president to double the debt (even though this is complete lie). Then hit them with this. The day Ronald Reagan was sworn in - the national debt was 934 billion. The day he left office the debt was 2. 697 trillion. Almost TRIPLE. Bush 41 added over 80% and Bush 43 added 110%.

And speaking of Reagan - point out that when you blow up the federal budget by dramatically increasing defence spending and dramatically lowering taxes to the rich - you get the largest increase in deficit spending in the past 70 years. Does this sound familiar? Every republican now running for president wants to do the same.
I'll add to that that I don't understand how you can claim to be the party of fiscal responsibility while at the same time advocating defaulting on the national debt. I don't know if you advocated for that yourself, but a significant number of congresspeople and senators in your party did.

As for Iraq, as you said, we never should've gone in, and I think there's an argument to be made that the fallout would've been similar whenever we got out. Were we supposed to stay there indefinitely to prevent the region from being unstable? I think not. Foreign policy is perhaps the most complex and difficult area of politics and of governance, there are so many moving parts, so many players, so many impossible decisions, that I think to to say ISIS is Obama's fault is dangerously simplistic.

All these Republicans say that the ACA should be repealed and replaced. With what? Replaced with what? I've yet to hear a satisfactory answer to that. It's just vague descriptions of vouchers and personal health savings accounts and open healthcare markets with no explanation of how you're going to ensure that the insurance companies continue to cover all pre-existing conditions while also ensuring that costs don't get higher than they already are.

The individual mandate wasn't Obama's idea, it was the price the insurance companies required in order to cover all pre-existing conditions, otherwise they either wouldn't make a profit(this is why health insurance shouldn't be a for-profit industry) or prices would go way up. You get rid of the ACA and tell the insurance companies to still cover pre-existing conditions, they're going to say, 'not without guaranteeing that everyone signs up' and then you're going to be on the way back to the ACA. So I'm not sure what the GOP plan for replacing the ACA really is.

For the record, I favor a single-payer system where the government picks up the tab over what we have, but what we have is much better than anything I've heard the GOP propose to replace it. Tell all the people who have healthcare now that didn't before that it's a disaster. Tell the people whose lives have been saved because of it that it's a disaster.

And all that's happened racially is we elected a black president and it awoke and intensified racism in certain segments of the country and it's let to some very unfortunate results, and too many outright tragedies. But I really have a hard time understanding how you're going to blame the president for that. It feels like blaming the victim to me.

Anyway, I think I'll stop there, because I think we're probably not changing each other's minds.
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Old 03-05-2016, 04:46 PM   #259
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Beck is a huge Ted Cruz supporter. He's done several campaign speeches for him.


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Okay? I didn't glorify Beck. I just think underneath all of his oniony layers, he's not a terrible human being.
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Old 03-05-2016, 04:48 PM   #260
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I....am not a fan of Glenn Beck.
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