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Old 03-04-2016, 04:51 PM   #201
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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
His early rhetoric also called Mexicans rapists, deIf dealers, etc. and was also quite misogynistic.

I don't think you understand...
The Mexican people cherish him and he cherishes Mexico....He also cherishes women...just ask Ivanka!


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Old 03-04-2016, 05:03 PM   #202
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

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Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7 View Post
His early rhetoric also called Mexicans rapists, deIf dealers, etc. and was also quite misogynistic.

Also I specified attacking Karl Rove and the media. And ultra specifically, Karl Rove. The few times that I still like Trump these days is when he trashes Rove, Krauthammer, etc.
On the Mexicans thing. I live in a city where about half of the population is Mexican. I have many friends who are from Mexico and have family that is from Mexico and/or lives there. A lot of the ones I talk to dislike Trump, but admit that a lot of what he says about illegals is correct. Some like Rubio or Cruz, but most vote for Hillary because they think it will be another 4+ years of Bill. Most Mexicans aren't as thin skinned as the media makes them out to be; a lot of them really don't care that much.
Plus, they don't care about the wall. They primarily use tunnels and underground pipes, like what they did to El Chapo.



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Old 03-04-2016, 05:50 PM   #203
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I've gone from Rand Paul-Cruz-Kasich.
I supported Rand for a year and then he dropped out, then I flipped from Cruz to Kasich. Not every candidate I talk about I necessarily support.
I actually still like Ted Cruz and should've insinuated that he sucks a lot less than the rest. I agree on almost every issue with Cruz, he just wouldn't be a great president. I'm more in the camp of anti-Trump, anti-establishment.

My rankings would look like this.
1 Kasich
2 Cruz
3 Rubio
4 Gary Johnson
5 Trump
...And there's no chance of me ever voting for a democrat.

But yeah, you're right. I've flipped a lot. I voted for Cruz here and he won big time. If I was in Ohio, I would have voted for Kasich. I just don't want Trump.
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So you'd vote for a fascist opportunist who you've admitted to hating before you'd vote for any Democrat?

And people wonder what's wrong with America.
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Old 03-04-2016, 05:59 PM   #204
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The flags over pyramids of grain everywhere are at half staff tonight.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:02 PM   #205
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Hey, just jumping in here to see if anyone has read these two articles. Forgive me if they've already been posted:

Quote:
And in the meantime, the forces activating American authoritarians seem likely to only grow stronger. Norms around gender, sexuality, and race will continue evolving. Movements like Black Lives Matter will continue chipping away at the country's legacy of institutionalized discrimination, pursuing the kind of social change and reordering of society that authoritarians find so threatening.

The Rise of American Authoritarianism


Quote:
"The word explains so much about the appeal of Trump and his crusade against “political correctness.” Trump — and his sons — are living the dream of white guy assholes everywhere, of being allowed to be as repugnant, dismissive, misogynist, racist, and egotistical as you want, with the confidence that no one will say anything about it because you’re rich."
"People vote their aspirations, and it turns out, that for a lot of Republican voters, being a rich villain is exactly the fantasy they want to wallow in."
American Psycho for Prez: Donald Trump's Sons Epitomize the '80s-Style Yuppie Villainy of His Campaign | Alternet



I feel sick over the idea of a Trump presidency. Even if it doesn't happen (it will be close!), the racist American has risen and has made itself known. Amazing how our country elected a Black POTUS 8 years ago, and now is voting for a fascist racist. It's a backlash to all the progression this country has done. We're more divided than ever.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:19 PM   #206
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Trump will not be president. No matter what.

He may win the nomination. But that's it.

My guess is the GOP is going to do everything it can to keep him under 50% of the delegates, fuck him over at the convention, he'll go 3rd party, and Hillary will win by a lot.

The village will have to be destroyed in order to be saved.

The GOP will rebound by 2020 and never let this happen again.

The important thing for Democrats is to turn out and for Bernie to use his money and appeal to help down ticket races. The census comes out in 2020. With it, redistricting. And with that, the opportunity to make things a little less gerrymandered.

There is hope.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:23 PM   #207
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Also, and this is for the Bernie folk, Trump is an excellent argument for the existence of Super Delegates.
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Old 03-04-2016, 06:31 PM   #208
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Trump will not be president. No matter what.

He may win the nomination. But that's it.

My guess is the GOP is going to do everything it can to keep him under 50% of the delegates, fuck him over at the convention, he'll go 3rd party, and Hillary will win by a lot.

The village will have to be destroyed in order to be saved.

The GOP will rebound by 2020 and never let this happen again.

The important thing for Democrats is to turn out and for Bernie to use his money and appeal to help down ticket races. The census comes out in 2020. With it, redistricting. And with that, the opportunity to make things a little less gerrymandered.

There is hope.
I hope you're right. I'm going with the "hope for the best, expect the worst" mindset.

In the meantime...

Quote:
"“I believe in him first of all because he’s a businessman,” the 93-year-old civil rights activist told The Clarion-Ledger Friday. “I think jobs are badly needed in Mississippi.”

“Our catfish is shipped to China and brought back for us to buy. Put a catfish farm here.”

“All of us have some racism in us. Even me,” he added before stating — in reference to Trump’s inflammatory positions on immigration –that the United States is not obligated in any capacity to support illegal immigrants.

Read more: MS Civil Rights Activist Charles Evers Endorses Trump | The Daily Caller

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Old 03-04-2016, 06:33 PM   #209
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Also, and this is for the Bernie folk, Trump is an excellent argument for the existence of Super Delegates.

Very good point.


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Old 03-04-2016, 07:04 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
The village will have to be destroyed in order to be saved.

The GOP will rebound by 2020 and never let this happen again.

Didn't we say this in 2012 when Obama beat Mitt though? That they'd regroup and be much better in 2016? And now they've gone the other way!
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:05 PM   #211
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The thing is, Kasich's record is pretty awful, there is no way I'd vote for him over Hillary (especially on social issues), but his temperament is so easily above everyone else's on stage. Even Ted Cruz, whom I find the most detestable, is coming across as more presidential than Rubio or Trump.

I'd like to know more about Kasich - but i thought even his answer on SSM in the last debate "I've moved on" was pretty reasonable.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:13 PM   #212
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Also, and this is for the Bernie folk, Trump is an excellent argument for the existence of Super Delegates.
I'm a Bernie supporter. I've never brought the argument that Bernie has no chance because of super delegates because I never considered the idea that super delegates would actively turn their backs on the voters. Meaning that if Bernie somehow pulled ahead in regular delegates - extremely unlikely, I know - I think the super delegates would get in line rather than enabling Hillary to flip off the voters.

But what you're suggesting is that if the Republicans had super delegates, then they could easily do what they are now desperately looking for a way to do, which is screw Trump and the GOP electorate over.

Trump is scary, so I don't have too much of a problem with the GOP doing whatever it needs to do to oust him in their current super delegate-less system, because this is an extraordinary circumstance, but I don't know how I feel about normalizing the notion of overturning the peoples' voting decisions.

I'm reminded of a Lewis Black joke where he's talking about the people that write your baby's name down on the birth certificate and how, referencing the fact that Jermaine Jackson named his kid Jermajesty, that those people that write the name down on the birth certificate should be empowered to say, 'no, try again'.

The GOP having super delegates, and then both parties normalizing the idea of using them to overturn the will of the people would be like that, empowering elected officials to tell the people, 'no, try again' when determining nominees for the highest office in the nation. Except, it would be even more than that because it wouldn't be 'no, try again', it would be 'no, and now I'm going to name your baby for you'.

Just not sure we should be wanting to encourage ideas like that.
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Old 03-04-2016, 07:56 PM   #213
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2016 US Presidential Election Thread Part VI

Quote:
Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
I'm a Bernie supporter. I've never brought the argument that Bernie has no chance because of super delegates because I never considered the idea that super delegates would actively turn their backs on the voters. Meaning that if Bernie somehow pulled ahead in regular delegates - extremely unlikely, I know - I think the super delegates would get in line rather than enabling Hillary to flip off the voters.



But what you're suggesting is that if the Republicans had super delegates, then they could easily do what they are now desperately looking for a way to do, which is screw Trump and the GOP electorate over.



Trump is scary, so I don't have too much of a problem with the GOP doing whatever it needs to do to oust him in their current super delegate-less system, because this is an extraordinary circumstance, but I don't know how I feel about normalizing the notion of overturning the peoples' voting decisions.



I'm reminded of a Lewis Black joke where he's talking about the people that write your baby's name down on the birth certificate and how, referencing the fact that Jermaine Jackson named his kid Jermajesty, that those people that write the name down on the birth certificate should be empowered to say, 'no, try again'.



The GOP having super delegates, and then both parties normalizing the idea of using them to overturn the will of the people would be like that, empowering elected officials to tell the people, 'no, try again' when determining nominees for the highest office in the nation. Except, it would be even more than that because it wouldn't be 'no, try again', it would be 'no, and now I'm going to name your baby for you'.



Just not sure we should be wanting to encourage ideas like that.



My guess is there would be more nuance to it -- like, if a candidate had less than 50% of the popular vote or the delegates, then they could trump the candidate (ha!) with some super delegate power.

If someone were sweeping to victory like Romney did in 2012, then the super delegates would have no legitimacy if they screwed the candidate over.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:02 PM   #214
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Didn't we say this in 2012 when Obama beat Mitt though? That they'd regroup and be much better in 2016? And now they've gone the other way!


My thought after 2012 was that they were screwed unless they started to appeal to minorities and young people. Romney won white married people comfortably, but Obama killed him everywhere else.

It seems that the GOP has doubled down on the old white angry vote, which means they are likely going to get clobbered in the general.

But, as always, anything could happen. Health issues for a candidate. A major terror attack. We just don't know. Authoritarians do well when people are scared. I hope nothing too scary happens between now and November. Trump is cut from the same rancid cloth as UKIP or the National Front. Our two party system has diluted these racist, nationalist voters. But they seem to be in control of the GOP at the moment.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:42 PM   #215
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it's weird. I remember, in 2012, asking if I was right in saying the GOP should be extremely concerned having lost. There were so many criticisms of Obama at the time, if I recall correctly. He seemed to be losing momentum and the GOP gaining momentum. But then, because of the reasons you stated if the first two sentences of your post, the Dems were just so much more comfortable, because they had a good spread. Whereas the GOP was riding on the loud support of white married people.

And then, in the next four years, I feel like there was a huge groundswell in the progressive circles in many areas. Obama came out in support of same-sex marriage. Black Lives Matter rose as black people became sick to death, literally and figuratively, of being assaulted and killed by police. There's been more support for gender diversity. Feminism has become more popular (and Hillary has used that to her advantage). Which should all point to the Dems being the powerhouse...

...but then I also feel like there's been an equally huge groundswell in conservative, but more specifically racist, sexist, homophobic, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!!! circles. Like, in equal to progressive thought become louder. And now they have been given a voice by Donald Trump, who I give some credit. I don't think the Trump we see is necessarily really him. I think he's cottoned on to a sense of "fuck the status quo" that he likes and he's doing this as a power trip, and it's huge for his ego, and he's comfortably winning.

It'll be really interesting to see what happens in November. Because I think the one similarity to 2012 is that at that time the GOP seemed to have all the momentum, and they ended up getting wiped. This time around, they have all the momentum too, but might still get wiped.

I don't know. Any Americans please feel free to tell me to shut up, I'm just talking out of my arse. It's just how I'm reading it.
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Old 03-04-2016, 08:42 PM   #216
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At any rate, this is the fucking country you live in. I could spend the rest of my life trying to understand how this sign is a real thing and never get any closer to understanding how.

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Old 03-04-2016, 09:23 PM   #217
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...but then I also feel like there's been an equally huge groundswell in conservative, but more specifically racist, sexist, homophobic, POLITICAL CORRECTNESS!!! circles. Like, in equal to progressive thought become louder. And now they have been given a voice by Donald Trump
Yep. When people who support him say they like him because he "tells it like it is", I read "tells it like it is" as: "He's saying all the racist, sexist, xenophobic stuff we want to say but don't have the guts to say/feel we can't say without getting shut down by the 'PC police'."

And I've definitely heard a LOT of conservatives griping about the Black Lives Matter movement online. Saying stuff like, "All lives matter, not just black ones" (thus showing they're totally missing the point of that phrase), or defending the police in those instances, saying they had the right to do what they did and people just need to learn to respect law enforcement better (because apparently you can't respect what law enforcement does as a whole while also criticizing the flawed elements of it. Nope. Gotta be one side or the other).

As for your comment on that gun photo, I'm just going to leave this here:

Iowa's Kid-Friendly Gun Bill - The Daily Show with Trevor Noah Video Clip | Comedy Central

I'll remind you we're just a little over three years past Sandy Hook.

Also, thanks, Iowa politiicans, for making my state look bad.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:23 PM   #218
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I know it's just shorthand for a certain politico/cultural tendency, but I find all the white people this and white people that a little tiresome at times. It's a little bit like the media's love of 'generationalism'. Put it this way, I'm pretty sure some white married people, even some white married old people, voted for Obama both times.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:34 PM   #219
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Well yeah obviously it's a generalisation.
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Old 03-04-2016, 09:46 PM   #220
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I know it's just shorthand for a certain politico/cultural tendency, but I find all the white people this and white people that a little tiresome at times. It's a little bit like the media's love of 'generationalism'. Put it this way, I'm pretty sure some white married people, even some white married old people, voted for Obama both times.


Except there is actual polling data with specific percentages to back up these assertions. Smart people who are good at math work hard to get accurate polling, and campaigns build strategies and spend resources based upon these numbers.
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