2016 US Presidential Election Thread IX

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

I don't know if it "damaged" it. Bush/Cheney pissed a lot of people off, so in some sense what deep is saying is true. It led to Obama.

I suppose my main point is better illustrated like this: individuals who have the right to vote aren't the issue. The issue is the leaders. If Gore were a better candidate, people wouldn't have voted for Nader. If Clinton were a better candidate, people wouldn't vote for Stein. If Stein were as compromising of a leader as you are, she wouldn't run.

Blame Stein. Blame Nader. Blame republicans. But your tragedy of the commons argument isn't going to satisfy anyone who doesn't want either of the two candidates. Right now, Sanders isn't a problem. And he won't be unless he runs for president. And if he does, he's a dick. Not the people who vote for him.

Do you think we get the candidates we deserve?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by BEAL

All about this. He gets a few SC justices put on the court, and all of those abortion rights, minority rights, and the corporate "rights" go back a century.

The damage, in my opinion, would never be undone.


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Oh and our schools will be full of guns. America will be great


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[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Do you think we get the candidates we deserve?

Why does it matter what I think? We are a population, not individual people. If 100,000 people in Florida voted for Nader it's not because they're stubborn. It's because the ticket and platform wasn't optimal.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Why does it matter what I think? We are a population, not individual people. If 100,000 people in Florida voted for Nader it's not because they're stubborn. It's because the ticket and platform wasn't optimal.

I might say it's because they're selfish.

[BVS]

It's because of Chad


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[Headache in a Suitcase]

If Trump bringing his business acumen to the White House would involve the actual US going bankrupt and a whole slew of sponsorship deals to get other countries to call themselves the United States. We'd also have a reality TV show where we get a bunch of third world countries to compete against each other for the right to be democracies. Because Trump.

The biggest joke of all is how he's been able to convince old white peop...errr i mean his base that he's this real estate mogul business genius.

I give him this, he's a marketing genius. But he hasn't been a relevant developer in Manhattan in 20 years. His casinos went bankrupt. Nobody goes to his hotel in Vegas. And most of his world wide properties he didn't even develop. He's a scam artist. A good one, but a scam artist none the less.

He's a great businessman only in the eyes of an idiot.

Where are his tax returns? There's only three reasons why he's withholding them... 1) he's either using incredible tax loopholes to avoid paying income tax, which would go against his everyman bullshit thing he's going after... 2) he's worth a shit load less than what he says he's worth... or the most likely answer, 3) both.

He is historically unqualified to be the leader of this country. Just look at the AirEgypt crash. Knee jerk, tell it like it is reaction... and here we are with still no claim of responsibility, and a high chance that it was an electrical fire.

He has no idea what he's doing, he would alienate even our closest allies, and turn us into an absolute joke. Probably even get us into a war or two for no reason. And not like an unnecessary war like Iraq, where shit at least they tried to convince everyone of the dangers. Like an unnecessary war based on a knee jerk reaction to something that may or may not have actually happened the way he says it did.

The riots in the streets will continue for weeks if he's elected. And I shudder to think of how he'd handle a situation like Ferguson or Baltimore.

He will be an absolute disaster, and that's before we even bring up the Supreme Court.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

If Trump bringing his business acumen to the White House would involve the actual US going bankrupt and a whole slew of sponsorship deals to get other countries to call themselves the United States. We'd also have a reality TV show where we get a bunch of third world countries to compete against each other for the right to be democracies. Because Trump.

The biggest joke of all is how he's been able to convince old white peop...errr i mean his base that he's this real estate mogul business genius.

I give him this, he's a marketing genius. But he hasn't been a relevant developer in Manhattan in 20 years. His casinos went bankrupt. Nobody goes to his hotel in Vegas. And most of his world wide properties he didn't even develop. He's a scam artist. A good one, but a scam artist none the less.

He's a great businessman only in the eyes of an idiot.

Where are his tax returns? There's only three reasons why he's withholding them... 1) he's either using incredible tax loopholes to avoid paying income tax, which would go against his everyman bullshit thing he's going after... 2) he's worth a shit load less than what he says he's worth... or the most likely answer, 3) both.

He is historically unqualified to be the leader of this country. Just look at the AirEgypt crash. Knee jerk, tell it like it is reaction... and here we are with still no claim of responsibility, and a high chance that it was an electrical fire.

He has no idea what he's doing, he would alienate even our closest allies, and turn us into an absolute joke. Probably even get us into a war or two for no reason. And not like an unnecessary war like Iraq, where shit at least they tried to convince everyone of the dangers. Like an unnecessary war based on a knee jerk reaction to something that may or may not have actually happened the way he says it did.

The riots in the streets will continue for weeks if he's elected. And I shudder to think of how he'd handle a situation like Ferguson or Baltimore.

He will be an absolute disaster, and that's before we even bring up the Supreme Court.

Just like Hillary. I can't even tell the difference between the parties anymore.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I might say it's because they're selfish.

Because you're applying your own belief to everyone else. Call the candidate selfish. That's fair. I fail to see how people are selfish because they have different views from you.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

If Trump bringing his business acumen to the White House would involve the actual US going bankrupt and a whole slew of sponsorship deals to get other countries to call themselves the United States. We'd also have a reality TV show where we get a bunch of third world countries to compete against each other for the right to be democracies. Because Trump.

The biggest joke of all is how he's been able to convince old white peop...errr i mean his base that he's this real estate mogul business genius.

I give him this, he's a marketing genius. But he hasn't been a relevant developer in Manhattan in 20 years. His casinos went bankrupt. Nobody goes to his hotel in Vegas. And most of his world wide properties he didn't even develop. He's a scam artist. A good one, but a scam artist none the less.

He's a great businessman only in the eyes of an idiot.

Where are his tax returns? There's only three reasons why he's withholding them... 1) he's either using incredible tax loopholes to avoid paying income tax, which would go against his everyman bullshit thing he's going after... 2) he's worth a shit load less than what he says he's worth... or the most likely answer, 3) both.

He is historically unqualified to be the leader of this country. Just look at the AirEgypt crash. Knee jerk, tell it like it is reaction... and here we are with still no claim of responsibility, and a high chance that it was an electrical fire.

He has no idea what he's doing, he would alienate even our closest allies, and turn us into an absolute joke. Probably even get us into a war or two for no reason. And not like an unnecessary war like Iraq, where shit at least they tried to convince everyone of the dangers. Like an unnecessary war based on a knee jerk reaction to something that may or may not have actually happened the way he says it did.

The riots in the streets will continue for weeks if he's elected. And I shudder to think of how he'd handle a situation like Ferguson or Baltimore.

He will be an absolute disaster, and that's before we even bring up the Supreme Court.

Anti-establishment as fuck


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[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

There's only three reasons why he's withholding them... 1) he's either using incredible tax loopholes to avoid paying income tax, which would go against his everyman bullshit thing he's going after...

Yeah, I'd love to see the GOP try and defend that, considering their attitude that people who are underemployed or looking for work, and therefore unable to pay taxes as a result, are nothing more than "lazy bums and moochers".

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

He has no idea what he's doing, he would alienate even our closest allies, and turn us into an absolute joke. Probably even get us into a war or two for no reason. And not like an unnecessary war like Iraq, where shit at least they tried to convince everyone of the dangers. Like an unnecessary war based on a knee jerk reaction to something that may or may not have actually happened the way he says it did.

Yep. Some leader called him a name and suddenly it's an all out brawl.

But hey, he "tells it like it is", so who cares, right?

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by Axver

Wait, why the hell does Washington have a caucus and a primary?

it's our state's greatest mystery, second only to Sasquatch.

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

The Christian imagery in the lyrics might turn off Lucifer. He may prefer Creed's Canadian bastard offspring 'Nickelback'

Nickelback actually makes me nostalgic for Creed. The devolution of alternative rock bloodline.

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by BVS

It's because of Chad

[Oregoropa]

Now that's a punchable face

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I might say it's because they're selfish.

Aren't the vast majority of votes cast for the candidate who the voter thinks suits their best interest and therefore selfish by definition?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Because you're applying your own belief to everyone else. Call the candidate selfish. That's fair. I fail to see how people are selfish because they have different views from you.

It's not having different views, it's making a choice to throw away the tool they've been given to make any sort of difference.

There's an entitlement to "well the candidates suck" that I can't get behind.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Hewson

Aren't the vast majority of votes cast for the candidate who the voter thinks suits their best interest and therefore selfish by definition?

I think it's our responsibility to choose between the two candidates who *best represents* our priorities and values.

Yes, this could mean a third party.

BUT

In a close election like 2000, your throwaway vote could have made a difference and we would have been spared the horrors of the Bush presidency. You can't sit back and pretend like you have no responsibilities here whatsoever for said vote because the parties have failed to cater to you and "earn" your precious vote.

I'm not going to pat you on the back and applaud your dignity and purity.

[cobl04]

Skipping back a bit, but I'm going to take a tack that is not often seen on Interference and side with LN7. I think "if you don't vote for Hillary you're voting for Trump" is overly simplistic and idealistic. Perhaps it's idealistic that a vote for Jill Stein or whoever is a vote hoping to inspire change in the future, but if you don't try to make change according to your own values at some point in your life you might as well just give up entirely and become a Democratic shill.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

It's not having different views, it's making a choice to throw away the tool they've been given to make any sort of difference.

There's an entitlement to "well the candidates suck" that I can't get behind.

It IS having different views. You view it as throwing a vote away. They don't always view it that way.

By this standard I could make the argument that every democrat in Texas is throwing their vote away because their vote could be used to support third parties. How selfish of them.

Or, every republican who is part of the margin of victory in Texas is also wasting their vote for the exact same reason. Selfish that they don't want to give us an additional party, given that many agree with libertarian views and a substantial amount of the votes needed for major party recognition is available in Texas.

[dazzledbylight]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

you may not like it, but -- and i will qualify my statement with the following -- if you live in a state where your vote matters it is your civic responsibility to vote for the major party candidate who best represents your values. if you can't figure out who that is, it's your job to figure it out and make peace with it, down to the state and to the Congressional race. if you choose not to use it productively, you do own the result. if you believe that blowing up the American way is genuinely better than leveraging the current system in order to change it, you probably have limited experience with actual revolutions.

Tend to agree with this
I hope to convince at least a few very disaffected Bernie voters (those say they won't ever vote for Hillary) before the General Election.