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Old 02-03-2016, 09:31 AM   #741
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I understand. I've spent a good amount of time in Europe and understand how curious the US can look from the outside, and how it can be difficult to grasp the enormity of the geography and populace, as well as the complexity of domestic issues and understated but very real regional differences.

We, including the American left, often operate under the assumption that what will work in small, comparatively homogenous European countries will magically translate to the US. It won't. That's why I thought that Obamacare was, generally, an important step towards universal coverage, for example. There are myriad small legislative achievements too long to list here, and possibly disputable. The contention isn't whether or not Obama has been good but if he's been effective or, as the chattering class would say, "consequential." He has. We've had small, incremental change we can believe in. That's how the country is designed, with all its checks and balances, to resist big change. People from Kansas inhabit the same country as the DC-NYC cognoscenti, and their beliefs and values have to be taken into account, and their votes matter as well. The US is more like the EU.

I agree about guns. I think Obama would too. It's unbearably depressing.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:16 AM   #742
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ultimately, i think the argument i'm making is for a presidential candidate -- legislators are different -- to occupy the edge of the center. for the Dems, it's going to be a center-left candidate, for the GOP, it's going to be a center-right. don't forget, in 2000 W campaigned as a "compassionate conservative" uninterested in wars and nation building and touting things like working with Democrats in Texas and education policy. after 9/11 is when Darth Sidious Dick Cheney took over internally and gave a shell-shocked public a much, much more conservative administration than was intended.

further, divided government tends to be pretty good government. we could argue that the US was governed pretty well from 1981-2001 by a President and Congress from opposing parties. this isn't to say that all legislation was "good" or not, but it is to say that it was never too radical or reactionary and the business of government functioned pretty well, even after the 1994 mid-terms or the 1998 blow job scandals.

i think we need our revolutionaries, but i think they come from the legislative branch. a president needs to represent the largest number of people. to me, that's an important piece of leadership. she does not 100% represent me, but that's ok -- i prefer the good to the perfect. i want an executive to represent a broad coalition and also be willing to push a few key issues in my direction so that said coalition will follow. i would point to Obama's cautious, incremental, but ultimately transformational work on LGBT issues as a great example. yes, it took him a long time to fully endorse SSM (and at Biden's prompting). but he did important work by even saying the word "gay" in his 2004 speech at the Convention. he appointed good judges, he worked hard to repeal DADT which was a great example of work with Leiberman. and now look where we are. enormous, exciting progress that may have seemed grinding at the time but the change itself is real and lasting.

in summary, i'm still voting for Hillary.
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Old 02-03-2016, 11:37 AM   #743
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Frightening? I think people getting in a room together and talking face to face before they vote is a very positive thing in 2016. I'd be far more frightened if this all took place on people's I-phones without them ever leaving their basement or bedroom.
The democrats vote by standing in a large space, grouping together, and counting heads.

The Republicans put folded pieces of paper in a bucket, which are then out into smaller Buckets by some random dude who, at least the one I was watching, drops every 4th vote on the floor.

It's 2016. I'm not saying we should all be voting on our smart phones but perhaps Iowa can update their process to something that was developed in the last hundred years.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:10 PM   #744
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2016 US Presidential Election Pt. IV

I used to like Ted Cruz, but he's downright slimey and is a big dork unleashed on a power trip right now.

It's fun to watch him and Donald spar like it's High School all over again.

Ted Cruz just said 'We're likely to wake up one morning and find out Donald Trump nuked Denmark'


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Old 02-03-2016, 03:24 PM   #745
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Trump wants Iowa to vote again or Cruz's result nullified because, he alleges, of voter fraud.

That's one very healthy crop of sour grapes.
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Old 02-03-2016, 03:48 PM   #746
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Trump is a sociopathic, narcissistic, dangerous, perverted moron. I wouldn't be surprised if he loses New Hampshire, too.
He's using this whole Cruz/Carson thing to make the claim that he was being treated unfairly. Then he'll go third party. The whole fiasco was 100% on the Carson campaign anyway. Saying he's gonna go home to FL to get a change of clothes? Wtf? Are you serious?
If Trump, by some miracle, wins the Republican nomination, I'll vote write in for Ron Paul. I don't care that he's not even running, I just won't vote for Trump in any circumstance. Seriously, Trump vs. Hillary would be the worst election in the history of America.


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Old 02-03-2016, 03:56 PM   #747
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Or you could vote for the Democratic candidate.
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Old 02-03-2016, 04:05 PM   #748
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Trump is a sociopathic, narcissistic, dangerous, perverted moron. I wouldn't be surprised if he loses New Hampshire, too.
He's using this whole Cruz/Carson thing to make the claim that he was being treated unfairly. Then he'll go third party. The whole fiasco was 100% on the Carson campaign anyway. Saying he's gonna go home to FL to get a change of clothes? Wtf? Are you serious?
If Trump, by some miracle, wins the Republican nomination, I'll vote write in for Ron Paul. I don't care that he's not even running, I just won't vote for Trump in any circumstance. Seriously, Trump vs. Hillary would be the worst election in the history of America.


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He won't waste money on an Independent run. He's barely spent any money so far.
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Old 02-03-2016, 04:23 PM   #749
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Or you could vote for the Democratic candidate.


those baby killers?
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Old 02-03-2016, 04:40 PM   #750
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So Trump was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by anonymous.

Thanks Obama


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Old 02-03-2016, 04:47 PM   #751
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He won't waste money on an Independent run. He's barely spent any money so far.
Which again plays into the troll angle... He has no ground game at all. His ad buys are minimal. He talks about his self financing and his billions but he doesn't actually spend any of it.
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Old 02-03-2016, 04:52 PM   #752
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Or you could vote for the Democratic candidate.

Hahahahaha. Not in a million years. They go against everything I believe in. I stand for the constitution and the power of the American people and the free market. I don't even bother going off about the democrats because I could go on and on and on. Americans want to go the easy, lazy and stupid way out of difficulty: wanting the government to fix our problems. Those are not the principles that made America great.
My biggest reason for being anti Trump is because he doesn't value the constitution. He keeps saying he's just going to get things done and make deals. That's not what a true conservative would do. It befuddles me that conservatives support Trump! He's a liberal! Wake up.



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Old 02-03-2016, 04:57 PM   #753
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Or you could vote for the Democratic candidate.
if i had citizenship I totally would.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:19 PM   #754
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This is a real thing.

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Old 02-03-2016, 05:23 PM   #755
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Hahahahaha. Not in a million years. They go against everything I believe in. I stand for the constitution and the power of the American people and the free market. I don't even bother going off about the democrats because I could go on and on and on. Americans want to go the easy, lazy and stupid way out of difficulty: wanting the government to fix our problems. Those are not the principles that made America great.
My biggest reason for being anti Trump is because he doesn't value the constitution. He keeps saying he's just going to get things done and make deals. That's not what a true conservative would do. It befuddles me that conservatives support Trump! He's a liberal! Wake up.



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This literally doesn't make any sense at all.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:32 PM   #756
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Hahahahaha. Not in a million years. They go against everything I believe in. I stand for the constitution and the power of the American people and the free market. I don't even bother going off about the democrats because I could go on and on and on. Americans want to go the easy, lazy and stupid way out of difficulty: wanting the government to fix our problems. Those are not the principles that made America great.
My biggest reason for being anti Trump is because he doesn't value the constitution. He keeps saying he's just going to get things done and make deals. That's not what a true conservative would do. It befuddles me that conservatives support Trump! He's a liberal! Wake up.



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You've done a great job memorizing the Hannity talking points, I'm surprised you didn't throw in a "Saul Alinsky" in there. Problem is you'd have a hard time backing up any of this. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone in here that thinks the constitution should be ignored, or that government should fix everything, or doesn't participate in the free market everyday. But they make for great catch phrases.


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Old 02-03-2016, 05:34 PM   #757
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This is a real thing.

It's from a conservative street artist named Sabo in Los Angeles. He's a Cruz fan and trolls other candidates. He put this up outside a Bernie fundraiser in LA

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Old 02-03-2016, 05:41 PM   #758
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It's from a conservative street artist named Sabo in Los Angeles. He's a Cruz fan and trolls other candidates. He put this up outside a Bernie fundraiser in LA

yeah why work when gov't can give basic income? just like Switzerland.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:48 PM   #759
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Hahahahaha. Not in a million years. They go against everything I believe in. I stand for the constitution and the power of the American people and the free market. I don't even bother going off about the democrats because I could go on and on and on. Americans want to go the easy, lazy and stupid way out of difficulty: wanting the government to fix our problems.

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Also why I never vote Democrat. I feel like electing Hillary or a hard RINO candidate (Bush, Kasich) is putting up a person who's job will be overseeing America's economic decline. More debt, stagnant growth, more money being dolled out.

I differ from Bob on my view of Trump. He's a roll of the dice on where he stands on certain issues from a conservative viewpoint. But, if his bravado is enough to push through his tax plan and drop corporate rates to 15% it may be the adrenaline the economy needs. It would make the US a corporate tax haven and attract companies from abroad and keep what we have stateside. This will expand the taxable revenue the Federal government can take. We need to balance the books or else we are on the inevitable slide towards Greece.
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Old 02-03-2016, 05:59 PM   #760
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I stand for the constitution and the power of the American people and the free market.
You realize that this sort of meaningless platitude sounds basically like a Trump soundbite?

It reminds me of a visiting law prof I had years ago (from Yale Law) who was telling us about entrance essays, including a surprising number he had read which opened with some form of "I believe in truth, justice and the American way."
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