2016 US Presidential Election Pt. III

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Irvine511 said:
Obama would win a third term if he could.
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It has occurred to me repeatedly lately that, if I could vote to give Obama a third term, I would do so in a heartbeat against any of the Democratic candidates, and certainly in the general election.


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After W's second term, it's taken me some time to adjust to a president with consistent 50/50 approval. What did W have by the end, 15%?
 
Don't be ridiculous, LM.

Obama is the worst president in our lifetimes! Didn't you hear? He's a democrat. He's a socialist. He's Muslim. He works for them. He wasn't born in this country. And if I can sum up what that actually all means... he's half negro! At least W knew how to be white and Christian! ?
 
Let us not forget, Joe Biden is infinitely less evil than his predecessor.

joe_biden_rectangle_magnet.jpg
 
So sad to hear that Biden isn't running, but not surprising.


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deep said:
Biden won't get in

he was never going to get in, unless Hillary imploded and then the convention could nominate him at large.

Sanders is about as viable as Huckabee, or Santorum was when they were no. 2 in their party primaries, completely no chance of being nominated, and even less chance of being elected. But, their passionate fans are true believers, what a waste of time,
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The only smart move
He can go down as a respected elder statesman and start an institute like Jimmy Carter.
 
And for the Democratic Party. The less infighting that goes on there allows for a stronger campaign in the future for the nominee.
 
I don't agree with "less infighting" in general as that tends to just go along with the establishment being afraid of losing the election and therefore wanting Clinton to be the nominee (even though the latest polls show Sanders faring better against Republican candidates such as Trump). I mean, the debate schedule and everything else is already rigged for her and I just can't understand the spinelessness of members of that party that always seems to think an election loss is just around the corner. This thing is pretty much in the bag for the Democrats and will be in the foreseeable future. But if politicians actually paid attention to logic and evidence, there'd only be about three people throwing their hat into the ring for each nomination.

But absolutely, we've avoided the bickering that would have gone on as Biden hardly differs from Clinton in terms of views and is arguably even to her right. Would've been a lot of name-calling and mud slinging, that's for certain.
 
Biden just saw what anyone with a clue would see. Nobody is going to beat her. Not Biden. Not Bernie and not 15 of those candidates on the GOP side.

Trump is the only one with a chance. And I can't believe I just typed that...but I believe it.

There are two types of low information voters. Those that know little about the issues. And those that know issues but know little about the nature of the corrupted system. And this election cycle, they are both doing well, both on the Right and Left wing.

The difference being Trump or even Ben Carson are not flatly unelectable. What do I mean? Here's what I mean...

In U.S., Socialist Presidential Candidates Least Appealing
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- As the 2016 presidential election field takes shape, more than nine in 10 Americans say they would vote for a qualified presidential candidate who is Catholic, a woman, black, Hispanic or Jewish. Less than half of Americans would vote for a candidate who is a socialist.

........

Among religious identities, while the large majority of Americans would vote for a Catholic or Jewish presidential candidate, smaller majorities say they would vote for a candidate who is Mormon (81%), an evangelical Christian (73%), Muslim (60%) or an atheist (58%).
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Atheist...ATHEIST!!! was eleven points higher than socialist.

The semantics regarding "socialism" don't really matter. The reality matters. Bernie Sanders has about as much chance to be President as any one of us. That is reality. So it begs the question...why would a serious person want him to be the nominee? Why would an informed progressive or liberal...or person that simply wants the GOP out of power...why would we want Bernie as the Dem nominee? So we could experiment with President Trump?

Listen, I like Bernie a lot. And I agree with several things he says and I love that he's attacking corporatacracy but he has ZERO clue how to fix it (Google Lawrence Lessig talking about real solutions). So even on those grounds, he's not really doing much but yammering like Ralph Nader.

Maybe things are rigged for HRC...rigged by people with brains and money and power. And they didn't get to be rich and powerful by believing in the fantasy that Bernie espouses. His idea to fix the corporatacracy? "Millions of people coming together". Bernie, God love ya...that's a bunch of hippy bullshit on par with "Hope and Change we can believe in!" Yeah, it's mostly the people disappointed with Obama that are flocking to Bernie. Obama has been a good President. Period. He's a better President today than he was in 2009.

By the way...I'm not a cynic at all. I'm an absolute realist.
 
i agree with you.

however ... in 2004 ... did anyone ever believe a black man named Barack Hussein Obama would be elected president of the United States?
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
It's funny because most people know what an atheist is. Most of them don't know what a socialist is.
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Yeah, when most people think of socialism they think of the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They don't think of Norway or Sweden.


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say what you will about the tenets of democratic socialism, dude. at least it's an ethos.
 
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I'm a big fan of democratic socialism actually. Bernie has explained it really well, the problem is that people don't listen. They hear the word socialism and freak out, even though we have socialism in many sectors of our economy.


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Bluer White said:
Former Secretary Clinton has done well so far today.
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Because I'm home with nothing better to do but flip channels, I've seen her on CNN all day. Like is this for real or is CNN repeating it? The Republican outrage is something else. Just saw a Republican Congresswoman rant for 10 minutes and then yell out "and this is a yes or no question!" I have no idea what the question was or frankly how anyone else could know. Hell I didn't even think there was A question. I feel like Hillary is 10 seconds away from an eye roll.
 
nbelcik said:
Yeah, when most people think of socialism they think of the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They don't think of Norway or Sweden.


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They just think evil. Even with communism, they think evil. Because that's what's ingrained into every kid's head when they're in high school US History.

Communism isn't evil. Fundamentally, it's very giving and equal. That doesn't mean it always works as planned. Neither does capitalism.
 
nbelcik said:
Yeah, when most people think of socialism they think of the Soviet Union, North Korea, Cuba, etc. They don't think of Norway or Sweden.


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None of those countries are socialist. And to claim that the likes of Norway and Sweden are socialist is wildly incorrect, especially when their welfare states have been gradually eroded over the past two decades.

nbelcik said:
I'm a big fan of democratic socialism actually. Bernie has explained it really well, the problem is that people don't listen. They hear the word socialism and freak out, even though we have socialism in many sectors of our economy.


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Something that really worries me in regards to Colonel Sanders' new prominence is that it's going to get a lot of people thinking that anything that is publicly owned is evidence of socialism. And I would suppose it would lead to people grouping genuine anti-capitalists with glorified left liberals.
 
Apologies in advance if the above post may have come off as overly harsh, was not my attention, just this is a constant annoyance that I and a lot of other people of a similar political persuasion have.
 
Vlad n U 2 said:
None of those countries are socialist. And to claim that the likes of Norway and Sweden are socialist is wildly incorrect, especially when their welfare states have been gradually eroded over the past two decades.
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Yeah, a rather loose definition of the word "socialism" has been thrown around a lot by the American Left recently.


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Vlad n U 2 said:
None of those countries are socialist. And to claim that the likes of Norway and Sweden are socialist is wildly incorrect, especially when their welfare states have been gradually eroded over the past two decades.







Something that really worries me in regards to Colonel Sanders' new prominence is that it's going to get a lot of people thinking that anything that is publicly owned is evidence of socialism. And I would suppose it would lead to people grouping genuine anti-capitalists with glorified left liberals.
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I said when people think of socialism they associate it with those countries, I wouldn't say those countries are socialist, I would argue that North Korea is more fascist than socialist. And I brought up Norway and Sweden because those are the two examples that Bernie Sanders brings up when he talks about his view of democratic socialism.



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digitize said:
Yeah, a rather loose definition of the word "socialism" has been thrown around a lot by the American Left recently.


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I always had the impression that it has always been like that.

nbelcik said:
I said when people think of socialism they associate it with those countries, I wouldn't say those countries are socialist, I would argue that North Korea is more fascist than socialist. And I brought up Norway and Sweden because those are the two examples that Bernie Sanders brings up when he talks about his view of democratic socialism.



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Fair enough, mate. :)
 
You wonder if they will let Lawrence Lessig into the Democratic debates now that the rest of the field has winnowed down to just Clinton, Sanders and O'Malley. The latter could be out real soon due to a lack of funds, but I imagine he'll stay in it all the way into Iowa just hoping for a Clinton scandal to break. Of course, under that scenario, we all know Biden would immediately hop in there and try to be the mainstream alternative to Sanders.
 
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