2016 US Presidential Election Pt. III

[BoMac]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Everybody. It's a discussion forum about the election. I enjoy talking with several posters on here who seem to understand that it is more fun to talk about the horse race and view it as a sport. Talk policy differences and such.

How the hell can anyone view this is a sport when innocent people are literally dying or their lives are becoming a nightmare because of discriminatory and racist rhetoric from one side? Seriously. Why is this so hard to grasp?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

You're going right to the Lefty playbook. Pick a target, isolate it, label it, mock it, rinse, repeat.

I love how this has become a go to conservative argument, completely oblivious to the irony. Have you been paying attention to Trump's campaign? I mean really?!

For someone who lectures others on original ideas this is embarrassing.

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

BVS - Are you ever going to bring an original thought or idea to the table on your own?


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Oh I'm sorry are you referring to that time I posted that obviously biased blog trying to discredit Snopes because it pointed out facts that disproved my beliefs, or that awful poll of Muslims created by a known conspiracy theorist? Yeah, I'm sor....
Oh wait, that wasn't me.

When you see me make posts that show I'm not doing my research or thinking for myself then call me out, until then don't talk to me about original ideas.



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[Diemen]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Can you source that. ( I can ask too) Or is that your working hypothesis?


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This doesn't directly address current, but it does explain that the (apparently) low number of hate crimes is misleading because a vast majority of hate crimes go unreported.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...in-high-levels

Here are some more current examples:
https://www.rt.com/usa/323148-muslim...lence-america/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ef3_story.html

Vandalized Mosques, Threats of Violence—Anti-Muslim Hate Crimes on the Rise | Mother Jones

A choice quote from the above link:

Based on the latest FBI hate crime figures, these incidents are on the rise. The most recent FBI data, released last Monday, indicates that hate crimes based on race, ethnicity, religious beliefs, or sexual orientation have dropped across the board—with the exception of crimes against Muslim Americans. In 2014, even as the total number of hate crimes dipped nearly 8 percent from the year before, anti-Muslim hate crimes rose 14 percent.

[cm]

They didn't charge a hate crime down the street from me because the penalty was less than that for assault. Google 'Coon Rapids Applebee's' if interested in the horrid details.

The Republican Party has become an embarrassment to this country.


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[BoMac]

I love being Canadian.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ees/?tid=sm_tw

[Salome]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

So I read that joke. I get what he said. Wasn't particularly funny, but it's not the "doomsday" statement you make it out to be. Is it considered heteronormative, patriarchal, maybe some new buzz word? I can't keep track anymore.

This is a prime example of why Americans have to walk on eggshells. Anything and Everything can be construed as offensive. This is The PC Culture I reference.

I don't think Americans have to walk on eggshells.
Hell, you can post whatever crazy shit you want on here.
Your politicians should use an iota of sense at times though if they want to at least to be able to pretend that they are serving the people of your country.

I don't have an especially high opinion of politicians in The Netherlands either, but at least they try not to outdo each other in spewing outlandish absurdities.

[Oregoropa]

Originally Posted by Diemen

This doesn't directly address current, but it does explain that the (apparently) low number of hate crimes is misleading because a vast majority of hate crimes go unreported.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-h...in-high-levels

Here are some more current examples:
https://www.rt.com/usa/323148-muslim...lence-america/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...ef3_story.html

Vandalized Mosques, Threats of Violence—Anti-Muslim Hate Crimes on the Rise | Mother Jones

A choice quote from the above link:

Thanks, Diemen. Just making sure we can have Mutually Assured Citations.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Everybody. It's a discussion forum about the election. I enjoy talking with several posters on here who seem to understand that it is more fun to talk about the horse race and view it as a sport. Talk policy differences and such.

But for many other posters, this place is a dumping ground for all your huff post whipped up grievances and anger.

I am more than willing to have fun and entertaining discussions about the election and other topics. I have been a member of this site for years, and in that entire time I have had plenty of engaging, intelligent debates with conservatives. Even agreed with them on a few issues along the way. You can go back into the FYM archive and pull up discussions from ten years or so ago, even five years ago, and see proof of that if you really want. Ask other posters here who've talked with me over the years if you don't believe me.

But I do think I have the right to be angry when we have potential politicians making offensive stereotypes about entire groups of people. I'm tired of the Republicans calling poor people and people who are on welfare moochers or lazy. I'm tired of people claiming all Mexicans who come here will steal our jobs and commit crimes. I'm tired of people saying things like, "Well, we'll let Syrian refugees in, but only if they prove they're Christian."

I'm tired of people saying Muslims want to take over America and spread their Sharia law everywhere, or that they're more likely to be terrorists. I'm tired of people encouraging the stupid and obnoxious as hell "birther" movement as a means to disrespect and discredit Obama. I'm tired of people saying gay marriage will somehow bring the downfall of society and destroy our Christian family values.

I'm tired of people saying the solution to all these mass shootings that we keep seeing in the news is MORE guns. I'm just sick and tired of it all, because it's mainstream belief for some people, and these are beliefs that hurt our country and our people in the long run. If you honestly do not understand why any of the above beliefs I mentioned make me and other people angry, then I don't know that you'll ever truly get it. These aren't "whipped up" grievances and anger, the gripes and anger come from a legitimate place, and have legit reasoning behind them.

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Moonlit - You're proving my point about progressives. Every worldview is applauded except those from those in opposition to progressivism (yes I used that term, because classical liberalism would allow for open dialogue and not shut it down because they think the other side is a phobe). You're going right to the Lefty playbook. Pick a target, isolate it, label it, mock it, rinse, wash, repeat.

Do enlighten me how exactly I'm doing such a thing. I do not follow any "lefty playbook". My views are my own, based on my own observations and experiences. That's the way it's always been. Please do not act like you know why I think and believe the way I do. If I really wanted to "shut you down" I would put you on ignore or not talk to you ever again. But I'm talking to you right now. I'm debating you. I'm listening to what you have to say. So where you get this idea that I'm trying to "shut it down", I don't know.

And I'm not "picking a target". These comments from the GOP are made public, so it's only natural people are going to...gasp...respond to what they're saying! And I have every right to mock opinions that are monumentally stupid and have no basis in fact. Saying we need to ban all Muslims is stupid. You do not have to be a "lefty" or a "progressive" to see that. I would hope that Republicans in general would find that idea equally as absurd.

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

Glad you brought up issues to debate. 15 dollar min wage. My view, if enacted in a locale businesses will simply leave hurting those employees designed to help in the first place. They can't afford it. Congress, states should enact a graduated raise percentage that goes up every year.

Gun control. Tough to write a whole dissertation in a single reply. I'm assuming you want more control rather than less. Are you ok with some guns over others? What restrictions do you want? Get back to me on that and I'll debate a single point.

I fail to see how businesses could be hurt by paying their employees more. Especially those that see nothing wrong with giving the higher ups big ol' bonuses every year. If they're capable of doing that, they're more than capable of giving some extra money to their employees. Not paying employees a decent living wage is what hurts businesses in the long run, because most people will eventually start looking for work that will pay them more to where they can afford the basics.

If employers claim they won't be able to stay in business if they start paying their employees a decent wage, that sounds like a weak excuse to me, I'm sorry.

As for gun control? I do want more of it, yes. Australia has some of the strictest gun control imaginable, they enacted it after a mass shooting in the...mid 1990s, I want to say it was? Our Australian posters here can say for certain.

And yet somehow, miraculously, people who still want to own guns in that country are able to buy them and own them, no problem, AND they haven't had mass shootings every other week, like we do here, ever since that legislation was enacted. Now how do you suppose they manage that? And if they can make that work in their country, why exactly can't we do the same here in the U.S.?

I think, at most, all your average citizen really needs in terms of guns is a gun for hunting, if they're the sort to do that, and maybe one for protection (despite the fact that it's been said that if a family has a gun in their home, they are more likely to be shot and/or killed by that very gun, and usually it's an accident, and usually the shooting is done by someone they know instead of some random intruder).

But whatever, if someone really feels they need a gun in their house for protection, okay, fine. And that's really all the more I think people need. There is no logical reason an average citizen should have a huge arsenal of weapons in their home. There is absolutely no logical reason they need military-style weaponry, especially if they aren't actually IN the military. There is no reason they need thousands of rounds of ammo if all they're doing is hunting a few animals for sport or food.

I do not get people who think that average citizens need to have that much weaponry in their home. I don't get what exactly they think they're going to do with all of that (and you don't buy that many guns if you don't plan on using them at some point, so clearly they have plans for them somewhere along the way).

[BoMac]

Donald Trump Really Doesn’t Want Me to Tell You This, but … | Vanity Fair

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by Oregoropa

So I read that joke. I get what he said. Wasn't particularly funny, but it's not the "doomsday" statement you make it out to be. Is it considered heteronormative, patriarchal, maybe some new buzz word? I can't keep track anymore.

This is a prime example of why Americans have to walk on eggshells. Anything and Everything can be construed as offensive. This is The PC Culture I reference.

This country is not a Liberal Arts College.

This election won't be decided on gender identity. People are going to vote based on what they see every other Friday in their bank account and if they feel safe at home and at work.

Progressives never discriminate against anybody, under any circumstances, or ever state that anybody's ideas or worldview are wrong, except for those who disagree with progressivism.


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I'm guessing you're a straight male? It's very easy for you to say that a joke made by another straight male about a transgender person isn't so bad.

Imgaine YOU ARE a transgender person. You've spent your whole life battling demons, trying to come to terms with yourself, isolated by society, told in every instance you're not normal, yeah, I'm pretty sure you'd get a bit upset by a "dumb joke".

[martha]

Originally Posted by cobl04

I'm guessing you're a straight male? It's very easy for you to say that a joke made by another straight male about a transgender person isn't so bad.

Imgaine YOU ARE a transgender person. You've spent your whole life battling demons, trying to come to terms with yourself, isolated by society, told in every instance you're not normal, yeah, I'm pretty sure you'd get a bit upset by a "dumb joke".

God, Cobbler, you're such Progressive.

[DaveC]

Dear Americans: Our Rob Ford scandal shows dangers of dismissing Trump - The Globe and Mail

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by cobl04

I'm guessing you're a straight male? It's very easy for you to say that a joke made by another straight male about a transgender person isn't so bad.



Imgaine YOU ARE a transgender person. You've spent your whole life battling demons, trying to come to terms with yourself, isolated by society, told in every instance you're not normal, yeah, I'm pretty sure you'd get a bit upset by a "dumb joke".

Haven't you heard about the war on the white, healthy, straight male? 😂

Tbh I think "Progressives never discriminate against anybody, under any circumstances, or ever state that anybody's ideas or worldview are wrong, except for those who disagree with progressivism" might be one of the least logical lines I've seen in this thread. There's a huge difference between "discrimination" and telling you "you're wrong." It's almost like this quote establishes a progressive as something that isn't a school of thought, but rather a political party.

You're not being discriminated against for being told off about not accepting other people. You're just being told off. That's it. So like, you can tell someone off for being transgender, and fine fuck you and all... but the point is they're human beings that should be entitled to they same civil liberties as everyone else.

[bono_212]

Originally Posted by BoMac

Donald Trump Really Doesn’t Want Me to Tell You This, but … | Vanity Fair

Am I missing a link somewhere? Why does that article just end in the middle of an anecdote?

[BoMac]

Yeah, i posted that before i read the full thing.

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[BoMac]

Meanwhile, in Canada.

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/...stay-home.html

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[Mack_Again]

Originally Posted by BoMac

Meanwhile, in Canada.

http://m.thestar.com/#/article/news/...stay-home.html

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I wish this happens everywhere in the world.

[BoMac]

[anitram]

^

A++

I also find it kind of hilarious that everyone is demonizing Trump. Sure, he is a giant troll and asshole, but more concerning are the millions of people ready to vote for him. And let's also not forget the other Republican candidates, behaving like they are beacons of enlightenment when most of them hold thoroughly repugnant views themselves.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by anitram

^

A++

I also find it kind of hilarious that everyone is demonizing Trump. Sure, he is a giant troll and asshole, but more concerning are the millions of people ready to vote for him.

This is truly the scariest part of all this.


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