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Old 10-28-2015, 03:47 PM   #301
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Leave it to the Republicans to have a great, "anyone but ______" candidate to go against and end up with two dipshits as their top two options.

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Old 10-28-2015, 08:45 PM   #302
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I think Rubio just officially put Jeb's campaign to an end.


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Old 10-28-2015, 09:11 PM   #303
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and how? He hasn't done anything but suck and get stomped on.

Cruz was swinging. Fiorina was swinging.

That's it.
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:22 PM   #304
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Less than I was expecting from the CNBC personalities managing the debate so far.
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:48 PM   #305
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Marco Rubio:

Economy isn't the same as it was, and that's why we should change immigration laws


What a twat.
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:59 PM   #306
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And here comes Twinkie muncher Chris Christie saying that talking about fantasy football gambling isn't a serious topic because it's a game.

Maybe the fat twat missed the point. The pretty, harmless title is what the problem is.
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Old 10-29-2015, 11:55 AM   #307
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Jeb got smoked last night. He had a prepped attack line on Rubio telling him he should just resign and Rubio hit him back hard saying he's modeling his campaign after McCain's comeback in 08' and cited the higher number of votes he missed on the campaign trail. Jeb had the worst night.

Cruz, Rubio, Christie had their best performances. Trump was solid and more seasoned. He totally neutered Kasich (who was the most annoying debator) by pointing out he was on the board of Lehman Bros. in 08'


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Old 10-29-2015, 11:55 AM   #308
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And here comes Twinkie muncher Chris Christie saying that talking about fantasy football gambling isn't a serious topic because it's a game.

Maybe the fat twat missed the point. The pretty, harmless title is what the problem is.
I'm not exactly a Christie fan but i think he was spot on there. With everything going on here and around the world.....they wanted to talk about fantasy football? Were they going to ask about the Kardashians next?


Rubio, Christie, and Cruz (God forbid) all had good performances imho.

Jeb! seems lost and confused and has probably zero chance from here on out.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:11 PM   #309
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I'm not exactly a Christie fan but i think he was spot on there. With everything going on here and around the world.....they wanted to talk about fantasy football? Were they going to ask about the Kardashians next?





Rubio, Christie, and Cruz (God forbid) all had good performances imho.



Jeb! seems lost and confused and has probably zero chance from here on out.

How is he spot on? It's a legitimate question mired by the very topic of the nature.

They're not talking about fantasy football. They're talking about gambling, a serious topic of the most serious concerns. Especially when, as mentioned by the moderators, insider information gets passed around. It involves people's money. Billions of dollars. You just shrug it off because it's got a "fantasy football" title attached to it? Replace "fantasy football" with "unregulated stock market" and do you think people will care? Is sports betting not considered gambling, because it doesn't have to do with a deck of cards?

Jeez. That seriously irritates me. If someone can't see why it's definitely a big deal, how do you expect them to do any form of critical thinking about on topics such as foreign policy?

A lot of news outlets are giving Rubio lots of credit. I don't understand why. He was on the defensive the entire time. And even though he might've countered Bush well, I think that was a lose-lose. Floridians are pissed off about Rubio.

I'm not just saying this because I hate Rubio, either. I personally thought Ted Cruz was a decisive winner in this debate, and he's arguably my least favorite candidate.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:36 PM   #310
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How is he spot on? It's a legitimate question mired by the very topic of the nature.
Because, imho, gambling is not nearly as serious a problem as what is going on in the middle east, which i think is what he said. He did mention ISIS, among other things, if i recall correctly.

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They're not talking about fantasy football. They're talking about gambling, a serious topic of the most serious concerns. Especially when, as mentioned by the moderators, insider information gets passed around. It involves people's money. Billions of dollars. You just shrug it off because it's got a "fantasy football" title attached to it? Replace "fantasy football" with "unregulated stock market" and do you think people will care? Is sports betting not considered gambling, because it doesn't have to do with a deck of cards?
Yeah i get it, gambling and insider trading and all that is a serious problem. However it's not as serious (imho) as ISIS and all of the other major catastrophic events going on in the world. Right?

Just because someone prioritizes these problems doesn't mean they are shrugging them off.



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A lot of news outlets are giving Rubio lots of credit. I don't understand why. He was on the defensive the entire time. And even though he might've countered Bush well, I think that was a lose-lose. Floridians are pissed off about Rubio.

I'm not just saying this because I hate Rubio, either. I personally thought Ted Cruz was a decisive winner in this debate, and he's arguably my least favorite candidate.
I don't particularly care for Rubio, i agree the moderators' comment about his personal finances and 401k withdraw could be potentially troublesome for him if someone wanted to make the connection that he doesn't manage money well.

However, imho, he appeared strong last night. It's a matter of opinion, so agree or disagree with it if you like.
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Old 10-29-2015, 12:58 PM   #311
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Not a Christie fan, but I thought he made some solid points and was right about the fantasy football/gambling crap. We have a lot more serious issues to deal with.
Rubio and Cruz were obviously on fire last night, I would expect Rubio to be #1 in the polls by next debate.
Jeb is done. He knows it, too.
I was hoping Rand would jump in more, he wasn't being asked many questions. He really needed a big debate, he has been hot lately and been riding up the polls. He was much too quiet, but still made some really good points when he had the chance.
Oh and good lord were the moderators bad. The one John guy (last name has slipped my mind) blatantly lied about Rubio's tax plan and has been exposed for doing so. They made it all about them with just terrible questions and over moderating. Just let the candidates talk fergodsakes, we don't care about the moderators. Geez. Glad Cruz went after them.



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Old 10-29-2015, 02:09 PM   #312
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As I said before, Rubio is clearly the most skilled debater in the entire bunch and I think last night is when his rocket is finally going to blast off. Carson has a ceiling he's about to hit and the hot air is clearly starting to leak from the Trump balloon. Rubio will be the establishment candidate left standing by the end of all of this.

I put Jeb Bush's chances now at 0% and that's me being objective. He may have a $100 million war chest of a Super PAC, but his actual campaign is running low on funds and he's only proven time and again to turn each debate appearance into a disaster rather than making them the moment where his campaign does a 180. I'd even say that the odds are better that Bobby Jindal has a moment and utilizes a decent Iowa ground game to eventually win the nomination. Seriously, Bush is toast.

On that PredictIt site, I noticed that the "No" for Bush winning the nomination was set to .76 cents which means you'd win a buck if he lost the nomination. Even before the debate, I figured that would be a great opportunity for someone to buy into as the chances of him winning the nomination sure as hell weren't 24% going into last night. As of right now, that contract is still only .85 cents and it's still the best guaranteed market you can get into because, again, Jeb Bush will not win this nomination.

We no longer live in a world where bombarding the television with a lot of advertisements makes much of a difference. People read the news or watch the 24/7 news media repeat bits of the horse race over and over again. The only group watching live television are the extremely old (Fox News average viewership is nearly 70, for example) and while Bush's own Super PAC leader admits that they specifically spend money on television advertising because it's where a lot of the base is at, it's not going to be enough to turn things around. These debates make so much more of an impact on the polls than flooding the airwaves. Hell, up until Bush's recent ad-buy, Rick Perry of all people had spent more on ads than anybody else in the field, basically running his Super PAC dry once his actual campaign fund went into the negatives. I would not be shocked if the Bush Super PAC got scared and spent all of their money real soon, leaving Bush to hop out of the race before Iowa (something I still predict Trump to do just as he did when he "quit" the then canceled The Apprenctice).
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Old 10-29-2015, 02:31 PM   #313
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the only takeaway from yesterday's debate was that I would like small 1 million dollar inheritance from my dad
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Old 10-29-2015, 04:56 PM   #314
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Yeah i get it, gambling and insider trading and all that is a serious problem. However it's not as serious (imho) as ISIS and all of the other major catastrophic events going on in the world. Right?



Just because someone prioritizes these problems doesn't mean they are shrugging them off.

While I understand that there's a level of opinion injected into such a point, I can't help but think that you don't understand why what he said bothered me.

His response indicated that he believed that it was genuinely a game. He was "insulted" by the moderator's decision to pose a question about what he perceived to be "fantasy football." He failed to identify the fact that the very issue with Fan Duels and Draft Kings and whatnot is that they are non-traditional market and gambling schemes. Just like PredictIt is. They are not games.

Whether or not a candidate believes that gambling is not an important issue is a totally different point. Christie's comments made it clear that he didn't even see it as an issue. He disregarded it as "just a game." It speaks to his inability to effectively think critically.

And for what it's worth, if you think ISIS is your #1 priority, that doesn't validate getting mad at someone for asking a different question that isn't about ISIS. Replace non traditional gambling with... human space exploration. It might not have to do with ISIS, but do you believe asking Chris Christie about NASA should spark him to be OUTRAGED that the topic wasn't something HE wanted to talk about? NASA accounts for a percent of the federal budget. It's a legitimate question. One that you can't just push aside in outrage because you know the military has more money spent on it, and therefore the question should've been about the military. It's peppered with fallacious techniques in argument.
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Old 10-29-2015, 05:23 PM   #315
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While I understand that there's a level of opinion injected into such a point, I can't help but think that you don't understand why what he said bothered me.

His response indicated that he believed that it was genuinely a game. He was "insulted" by the moderator's decision to pose a question about what he perceived to be "fantasy football." He failed to identify the fact that the very issue with Fan Duels and Draft Kings and whatnot is that they are non-traditional market and gambling schemes. Just like PredictIt is. They are not games.

Whether or not a candidate believes that gambling is not an important issue is a totally different point. Christie's comments made it clear that he didn't even see it as an issue. He disregarded it as "just a game." It speaks to his inability to effectively think critically.
I appreciate that this is an issue that is very important and/or sensitive to you. Honestly i admit i am not involved in the fantasy league(s) as mentioned. If everything you are saying is true i agree it does need to be looked at, investigated, etc.

However, if i were POTUS or someone running for POTUS, it would not be in the Top 10 most important things on my agenda.

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And for what it's worth, if you think ISIS is your #1 priority, that doesn't validate getting mad at someone for asking a different question that isn't about ISIS.
Okay...gonna just stop right here. Once again you think i am mad at you...i am not mad at you. I have never been mad at you. It's a difference of opinion, that is all. I don't know where you keep getting this from....second time this has happened between us in a few weeks here in this very thread. If i were truly mad at you, i would ignore you and move on. This forum is not worth getting mad about.
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:11 PM   #316
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They're not talking about fantasy football. They're talking about gambling, a serious topic of the most serious concerns. Especially when, as mentioned by the moderators, insider information gets passed around. It involves people's money. Billions of dollars. You just shrug it off because it's got a "fantasy football" title attached to it? Replace "fantasy football" with "unregulated stock market" and do you think people will care? Is sports betting not considered gambling, because it doesn't have to do with a deck of cards?
I'm guessing the difference is that with gambling related to fantasy football, and sports betting, people personally choose to put their money at risk like that. Since I don't follow or get involved in fantasy football, I don't put any of my money into it. Nor do any of my family (who are more interested in sports than me). Therefore it's not going to have an impact on our economic situation.

The stock market and banks messing with people's money would be considered a whole different matter, because people put investments and life savings and such into those things, so the effects are a lot more immediate and widespread and bigger. That's where I figure the difference is for politicians, and why they would feel fantasy football gambling is less of an immediate concern in their eyes as a result.

Now, having said that, of course, if there is indeed some shady business involved in sports betting and other related gambling activities, which wouldn't surprise me to learn was the case, then certainly I'm all for people doing what they can to try and put a stop to it. People may personally choose to put their own money into those things, but they still deserve to know it's being handled and used properly. And I would very much support proper regulation of those activities where possible.

And feel free to correct me on anything I may not fully understand about this issue-I'm not in the know, but if this is indeed an important issue, I would very much like to learn more about it .

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the only takeaway from yesterday's debate was that I would like small 1 million dollar inheritance from my dad
Ha. Seriously. People honestly believe this guy's going to help the working class with their economic woes?

Not surprised that Jeb would be flailing and struggling. I think most people just aren't that excited about the Bush dynasty continuing. Since 2008, the Republicans have had to do a weird dance of trying to distance themselves from the negative effects of the Bush administration (up to and including denial that they would've supported or voted for any of the administration's policies) while still trying to prove they're as conservative as Bush Jr. if not more so, to appeal to their base and party voters in general.

But I don't think the number of voters who think fondly on the Bush Jr. years is all that big, even among Republicans (the level of his "true conservatism" would be up for debate). So Jeb would have a hard time getting much support from his own party, let alone the country at large, as a result.
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:32 PM   #317
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re: "fantasy football" and Christie. It was just typical politics, IMO. I believe he was waiting on that one coming right over the middle of the plate. It sounded just like a canned answer to me the way he rattled everything off.

Had he or anyone else been asked one of the typical throwaway questions ("so, who do you like in the World Series?"), he had that one ready to go. It was fantasy football, so he jumped on it. Doesn't matter how serious the subject actually is, all that mattered was the politics of it, in that Christie took the moment to try and impress folks with how 'serious' he was.

The biggest 'macro' takeaway from this debate IMO is that Trump ended the Kasich campaign last night. All that really matters anymore are 'viral' moments. Him blasting Kasich for Lehman Brothers was yuuge.

But seriously, this is what matters these days. Well tempered and measured analysis gets you ending up like Jeb Bush while calling people names and making the crowd laugh makes you a frontrunner.

On the debate, I thought Bush was bad (again) and Cruz was stellar in terms of how well this will help him. I have probably underestimated his appeal. I also thought Rubio was quite solid, especially with criticism coming his way. And I thought Christie was very good as well. I also thought Trump had a good night, just doing his own thing. Token is clearly on borrowed time. He has to be. Right? And Fiorina is the worst and most unqualified of all of them. Can't stand her. Huckabee and Paul just need to pack it in. Christie might have completed a Hail Mary to keep him in it but these others are wasting everyone's time. Let's get down to Trump-Rubio-Cruz...and Christie and stop fucking around with these other fools. Did I mention how much I hate Fiorina? Seriously though, the next debate should only be 5 or 6 of them.
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Old 10-29-2015, 06:48 PM   #318
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Okay...gonna just stop right here. Once again you think i am mad at you...i am not mad at you. I have never been mad at you. It's a difference of opinion, that is all. I don't know where you keep getting this from....second time this has happened between us in a few weeks here in this very thread. If i were truly mad at you, i would ignore you and move on. This forum is not worth getting mad about.

I was referring to Chris Christie getting mad at the moderator. That entire portion of my response was referring to Chris Christie becoming suddenly disgusted by the question.
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:30 PM   #319
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Believe it or not, Token actually earned more Twitter followers last night than anyone else, quite a bit more than Rubio in fact. Seriously, all he has to do is stand there and people want to get on the "See, I'm not racist train"...

And Twitter skews young at that. Most of the Republicans out there, and particularly the debate viewers, skew way older. I get the feeling they'll be even more into Carson standing around and not engaging in a war with words with anyone and/or the aforementioned "not a racist" bonus.

So, would not be surprised at all if Carson's poll numbers continue to rise...and they may rise a lot if he eventually starts biting into Trump's pie. It's starting to look like Carson is the golden boy. If just showing up at the debates is going to give him a huge boost every time, how on earth is anybody going to stop Carson from winning this thing? It's clear a lot of Republican voters are satisfied enough just with the guy existing, he doesn't need to get in any good slams of his opponents or have much of a personality or anything else. He's every racist's dream, an example they can use to say they aren't racist who they know in turn will fight hard against affirmative action and dismantling the welfare state, setting blacks back even further. He's their knight in black armor!

I don't think anybody from the main stage will drop out before the next debate. Bush will want to, but they still need to spend all that Super PAC money and see what happens. The undercard, particularly Graham and Santorum and Pataki could all leave real soon. Jindal at least has a prayer given his favorables and alright Iowa numbers, but he needs a big moment real soon.

I'd say...

1. Rubio - 60% chance at the nomination (You wonder how things would have turned out for Walker with a few things going his way...)

2. Cruz - 18% chance at the nomination (Basically, just would happen to win via being preferred to Rubio than for what he stands for)

3. Carson - 15% chance at the nomination (Can't ignore a likely Iowa victory and has the potential to hit about 40% nationwide, I think)

4. Trump - 5% chance at the nomination (I still don't think he even makes it to the caucus, but if he can hold on to his numbers for just a few more months it wouldn't be surprising for him to become the nominee)

5. Kasich - 1% chance at the nomination (I feel he has the most rational arguments, even if I almost totally disagree with his policy methods, and will play well in areas like the North East, and of course, Ohio)

6. Christie - just below 1% chance at the nomination (Would have to keep up the bluster and hope the other establishment choices all fall apart)

7. Jindal - whatever's left of Christie's share of 1% (Needs that big moment, but has likability and decent Iowa ground game)


Like Bush, Fiorina has proven she can't really gain any traction. She's done too.

It was looking earlier like Fiorina would have the best chances of the anti-establishment crowd to take on the rising star that is Rubio while Bush's money would make him the dark horse. Now? It's basically Rubio's nomination to lose once the hot air inevitably leaks out from Carson and Trump.

Paul and Huckabee were already completely dead candidacies before we even got to these debates. Both of them literally have a ceiling among this group that would cap at about 10% of nationwide support and therefore makes it impossible for either to win the nomination.
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Old 10-29-2015, 07:47 PM   #320
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I was referring to Chris Christie getting mad at the moderator. That entire portion of my response was referring to Chris Christie becoming suddenly disgusted by the question.
Okay thanks for clearing that up. Hopefully you can see why i thought you were talking about me and not Christie, though.
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