2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 11

[yolland]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

Like my students this and last year (who are seniors and therefore mostly eligible to vote) saying "I just think it's time that we had a black president.."

That's lame, but it's not racist. Comparing them to someone sneering about how they "don't want a black man running my country" is a false analogy.

[ImOuttaControl]

Originally Posted by yolland

That's lame, but it's not racist. Comparing them to someone sneering about how they "don't want a black man running my country" is a false analogy.

I would argue it's the exact opposite. How is voting for someone because of their race not the exact same thing as not voting for someone because of their race. Or is racism okay when it benefits your guy?


"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." --MLK

All I'm saying that racism is playing for and against Obama (and therefore for and against McCain at the same time), which is a shame.

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

I would argue it's the exact opposite. How is voting for someone because of their race not the exact same thing as not voting for someone because of their race. Or is racism okay when it benefits your guy?


"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." --MLK

All I'm saying that racism is playing for and against Obama (and therefore for and against McCain at the same time), which is a shame.

Whoa! Well articulated.

[yolland]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

How is voting for someone because of their race not the exact same thing as not voting for someone because of their race.

Racism is based on discrimination, that's why it's not the same. If you're deeming white people 'racist' for favoring a candidate who's black over a candidate who's white, then you're suggesting they hold discriminatory views towards white people. It's an essential component of the definition.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

I would argue it's the exact opposite. How is voting for someone because of their race not the exact same thing as not voting for someone because of their race. Or is racism okay when it benefits your guy?


"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." --MLK

All I'm saying that racism is playing for and against Obama (and therefore for and against McCain at the same time), which is a shame.

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Whoa! Well articulated.

Well I'm disturbed, but not exactly shocked that the two of you don't understand the definition of racism.

[ImOuttaControl]

Originally Posted by yolland

Racism is based on discrimination, that's why it not the same. If you're deeming white people 'racist' for favoring a candidate who's black over a candidate who's white, then you're suggesting they hold discriminatory views towards white people. It's an essential component of the definition.

Plain and simple: If a white person does not vote for a black person because of their race, it's racism. If a white person votes for a black peson because of their race, it's racism. If a black persion votes for a black person because of their race, it's racism. If a white person votes for a black person because of their race, it's racism.

"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character." --MLK

Character, principles and policies are what matter, yet some people in this election will vote because of the color of their candidate(which in your words, is what is "lame")...When race is the defining reason for voting for or against s candidate, it is racism.

[anitram]

It's not plain and simple.

And it isn't at all what the word racism is understood to be nor how it is used socially.

[JOFO]

OBAMA!!!!










sorry.......had to be done.

[ImOuttaControl]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Well I'm disturbed, but not exactly shocked that the two of you don't understand the definition of racism.

LOL!!! I'm disturbed that you think racism is okay...if it benefits you and your candidate.

Pray tell, what is racism??? If voting for someone because of their race is not racism is, what the fuck is racism? I have given a specific examples of some people saying they will vote for a candidate because of race, and others have given examples of not voting for a candidate because of race. How is that different???

Put it another way..If all white people in the U.S.A. voted for a white candidate ONLY because he is white while rejecting a far superior black candidate, costing the black candidate the election, is that not racism?? How bout vice versa?

[ImOuttaControl]

Originally Posted by anitram

It's not plain and simple.

And it isn't at all what the word racism is understood to be nor how it is used socially.

Yes, it really is. It's just that your guy is up in the polls and the electoral vote.

Anything to win, right? Would you feel the same way if white people said "I'm going to vote because McCain is white."?????

Racism, either way, is never okay.

[indra]

Originally Posted by anitram

And it isn't at all what the word racism is understood to be nor how it is used socially.

Nor is it how it's defined.

And now I will cut and paste the definition of racism (because obviously someone has to):

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

link


ImOuttaControl, according to the definition of racism, your example does not qualify as racism. Are those kids lame, as yolland put it? Yep, but it does not rise -- or rather sink -- to the level of racism.

[BVS]

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.




Tell me which one your theory fits under...

[ImOuttaControl]

Originally Posted by indra

Nor is it how it's defined.

And now I will cut and paste the definition of racism (because obviously someone has to):

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

link


ImOuttaControl, according to the definition of racism, your example does not qualify as racism. Are those kids lame, as yolland put it? Yep, but it does not rise -- or rather sink -- to the level of racism.

Because a dictionary says it, it must be so? What does common sense say? Common Sense, that's what I'm about. If a white person in Kentucky votes for McCain simply because he's white, that's racism to me. If a black person in Chicago votes for Obama simply because he's black, that's racism.

I view racism as judging someone according to their race, rather than the "content of their character." Luckily, I know I'd have the good doctor to agree with me.

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.




Tell me which one your theory fits under...

Dictionary: reverse discrimination

n.
Discrimination against members of a dominant or majority group, especially when resulting from policies established to correct discrimination against members of a minority or disadvantaged group.

Is that good enough for you?

[ImOuttaControl]

Please tell me...would you be arguing the same position if we were talking about McCain having massive support among whites and among some (maybe few) blacks who think he should be elected "because he's white?"

In my original posts I talked about some of my students saying they were voting Obama because "it's time we had a black president." I quoted Dr. King. I said that racism under any circumstance is unacceptable.

I'm franky incredibly suprised that there is any arguement of me saying this on this forum...it saddens me.

I'm not attacking your candidate!!! I'm saying that it's sad that race still plays a role in our elections and that race is benefitting Obama in some areas and hurting him in others.

[Lila64]

Originally Posted by JOFO

OBAMA!!!!










sorry.......had to be done.

In case the sentiment was lost

I thought Obama's ad was great

[indra]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

Because a dictionary says it, it must be so? What does common sense say? Common Sense, that's what I'm about. If a white person in Kentucky votes for McCain simply because he's white, that's racism to me. If a black person in Chicago votes for Obama simply because he's black, that's racism.

I view racism as judging someone according to their race, rather than the "content of their character." Luckily, I know I'd have the good doctor to agree with me.

So you determine the definition of words? Okey dokey then.

If it makes you feel better to believe it, go right ahead.

But you are wrong.

[indra]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

Please tell me...would you be arguing the same position if we were talking about McCain having massive support among whites and among some (maybe few) blacks who think he should be elected "because he's white?"

In my original posts I talked about some of my students saying they were voting Obama because "it's time we had a black president." I quoted Dr. King. I said that racism under any circumstance is unacceptable.

I'm franky incredibly suprised that there is any arguement of me saying this on this forum...it saddens me.

I'm not attacking your candidate!!! I'm saying that it's sad that race still plays a role in our elections and that race is benefitting Obama in some areas and hurting him in others.

I would just think they were stupid. Just as I think your students are stupid. Just because they are voting for the candidate I think is the correct choice doesn't mean I think the reason you said they gave for voting that way isn't stupid. It is STUPID, but it isn't racist.

[yolland]

Originally Posted by ImOuttaControl

Luckily, I know I'd have the good doctor to agree with me.

No, you don't know that at all. King didn't pen those words in response to the question, "What is the definition of racism?" He was envisioning the ideal colorblind American society of the future, to which racism (see supplied dictionary definition)--specifically, the antiblack racism of the Jim Crow South, the belief that blacks are inherently inferior to whites--was the most potent threat in his day. You have no basis whatsoever for presuming to know whether or not he would deem your students' voting motives "racist."

...race is benefitting Obama in some areas and hurting him in others.

Now this much is true.

[Earnie Shavers]

Yes, common sense. Common sense says that a lot of people will be drawn toward the historic event, or will at least be most excited about that aspect of their vote – be it the first black president or, if Hillary had gone through, the first female president. It’s not the right reason to vote, but that doesn’t make it racism or sexism if people point to it as part of their logic for choosing that option. As you say, it’s about character and I don’t think Obama’s race, or Hillary’s ovaries, are/were totally overriding character and do not make them bulletproof. To a true racist or sexist, those things do override character - and I'd say that's likely where the huge difference is between most people saying "I am voting for him because I want to see a black president" and those saying "I will not vote for him because I do not want to see a black president".