2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 10.

[yolland]

Originally Posted by martha

There were billboards will pictures of babies with Bible verses railing on about abortion. As I saw these all over the place, I realized how conservative parts of America are and how they want the exact kind of president Diemen is describing. There was still a restaurant serving "freedom fries."

They do question people's patriotism the same way McCain and Palin are.

I travel by car quite a bit, and I see pro-life billboards in cities and suburbs all the time. There are probably more overall in rural areas, but I'm genuinely surprised if you consider pro-life billboards to be a uniquely rural curiosity. I was under the impression that OC has quite a few megachurches; do they never fund signs like that?

I've never personally seen a restaurant serving "freedom fries," and really don't have the impression that that is or ever was commonplace anywhere in the US. The only example Wikipedia offers of a place that still serves them is a restaurant in Philadelphia.

What did you see to make you say "They do question people's patriotism"?

To me, when McCain and Palin refer to "real, smalltown, pro-America America," they're invoking an archetype that appeals to social conservatives in all kinds of locales; they're not just, or even primarily, addressing actual "real smalltown" voters. A flattering stereotype of hardworking, self-sufficient, unpretentious people who aren't easily swayed by pretty words or trendy ideas and are neither greedy narcissists nor self-pitying defeatists...the pioneer spirit lives on in the suburbs, blah blah yadda yadda. For many voters who do live in rural areas and certain types of urban ones, Rust Belters for example, the rhetoric also plays to an aggrieved sense that their concerns have been ignored by the government for decades, and a growing suspicion that everyone else is just pointing and laughing at them for being 'stuck' there. You've heard of inferiority complexes masquerading as superiority complexes? Something like that. Greater social conservatism enhances the sense of alienation but it's just that, an enhancer.

The 'beware-the-human-sewer-that-is-rural-America' attitude is poison for the Democrats, and it's not just the 20% who actually fit that description who take offense.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Well a spending freeze certainly is not what Bush did. Unless you think he won't carry it out.

I don't think he'll carry it out, in fact he's often said things that contradict that freeze, Obama called him out on it on the last debate when he caught McCain saying he wants to spend more on Autism research.

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Actually I was talking about the abuse of children, not adoption. Symposium is very clear and historians are very clear about how they looked at minors. If it's consenting adults then I don't care. What happened in Greece is not related to gay adoption. Not all gays have sex with minors but they do on a higher rate than heterosexuals do. I'm pretty sure that the ones who adopt aren't looking for quick sexual satisfaction but are trying to raise kids. I'm talking about predators, and the idea being pushed to lower the age of consent. The entire culture of western gays going to Thailand to screw minors is disgusting and I wish the gay community would be more outspoken against it. Laws should apply equally to gays and heterosexuals. If there's going to be equality for gays then they will have to stop advertising sex with minors.

This will be last post on this subject, it's off topic for one, and you again are returning to your MO of twisting, turning, and simply bullshiting your way out of a corner.

We were talking about adoption, you made that correlation very clear in your first mention of Socrates. In fact you brought it up and honestly your thought process completely discusts me. Do yourself a favor and drop it.

And no you are wrong, the majority of pedophillia is from homosexual men.

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

That's not a good enough reason to support Obama. Especially after Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. The main critics of those institutions were Republican.

Stop. Just stop. I never said that was the reason I'm supporting Obama, I just simply answered a question of yours... This is why you don't get taken seriously.

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Any president that wants to balance the budget will have to say no to a lot of them if they want progress.

Yes and no. I think your knowledge of lobbyist is pretty limited. Yes the general public is fed this picture of companies giving money in order to get laws their way, but that's only a part of it... But the truth is we need lobbyists. NASA, health research, alternative energy, etc they wouldn't be here without lobbyists...

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

That's not his assertion. It's that by using the fairness doctrine the conservative point of view wouldn't get it's fair shake from bombardment from phone calls, and listenership chewing up air time. There are liberal talk shows and a largely liberal bias in the media even as it is so it's really just a veiled way for stifling the conservative media. I mean there is no way I could not know what the left thinks. With movies, TV, music, university, and books it's very easy to see. I'm okay with Oprah supporting Barack Obama. It's her show and she can do what she wants. If conservatives want to boycott it they can go ahead. I'm actually mistified that conservatives were surprised of her leanings. Isn't it obvious? Look at her "New Earth" campaign. It's the Oprah show. Will Oprah be forced under the fairness doctrine to give equal time to conservative views on all her points of view? I would love to see that. Maybe Rush can be a panelist for Oprah.

Let me challenge you... I'm not talking about Oprah, editorials, etc, just the real news. Where is the liberal bias? It's asked in here all the time and everytime the person that makes the accusation fails so maybe you can show us...

I'm going to requote this part:

With movies, TV, music, university, and books it's very easy to see.

Have you ever wondered why? Now with movies and music(and maybe TV) isn't it obvious that creative types lean more left? I mean why the big shock?

Now books, I have no clue what you are talking about, I see the whole spectrum in books.

Now I've heard you talk about the university thing before, and it's kind of a double edged sword don't you think? Higher education = liberal. Well then does that mean lower education = conservative?

I can go on and on about this fallacy, but you've already tried this subject and it's off topic. But I think the number one reason that higher education is considered liberal, is that no university worth it's salt would ever allow the type of "logic" your Socrates/gay adoption argument portrayed.

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Actually I was talking about the abuse of children, not adoption. Symposium is very clear and historians are very clear about how they looked at minors. If it's consenting adults then I don't care. What happened in Greece is not related to gay adoption. Not all gays have sex with minors but they do on a higher rate than heterosexuals do. I'm pretty sure that the ones who adopt aren't looking for quick sexual satisfaction but are trying to raise kids. I'm talking about predators, and the idea being pushed to lower the age of consent. The entire culture of western gays going to Thailand to screw minors is disgusting and I wish the gay community would be more outspoken against it. Laws should apply equally to gays and heterosexuals. If there's going to be equality for gays then they will have to stop advertising sex with minors.

http://www.mega.nu/ampp/baldwin_pedo...osexuality.pdf


Washington's Other Sex Scandal: - Reason Magazine

This gay guy thinks we should not name all under age sex as pedophillia. This is insane. You have to admit that there is a problem.

Have you other extensive empirical data for your claims from objective, reliable sources instead of a text by someone apparently deeply biased and hateful of homosexuals and one anecdotal evidence?

One person that demands a lower age of consent represents a problem? What about heterosexuals making the same claim?

[Varitek]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

S


Yeah when I read Symposium it was exactly what I thought. There's an entire section where a general is trying hard to screw Socrates. You have to read it to believe it. At least Plato focused on the goal of looking at love being in different levels and love of the forms being the best, the next best love of character, and the least a love of the flesh.

OK, so you've read some classical literature and selectively interpreted it and bragged about reading it because you think that will make you look smart on the internetz, so what? Just because this was a practice in ancient Greece does not mean that homosexuality is the same thing as the sexual perversion known as pedophilia (that occurs towards girls and boys). You can't analyze real facts, the last resort is citing a big name in literature and hoping that will impress us? Sorry. This isn't a real argument.

[Varitek]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Actually I was talking about the abuse of children, not adoption. Symposium is very clear and historians are very clear about how they looked at minors. If it's consenting adults then I don't care. What happened in Greece is not related to gay adoption. Not all gays have sex with minors but they do on a higher rate than heterosexuals do. I'm pretty sure that the ones who adopt aren't looking for quick sexual satisfaction but are trying to raise kids. I'm talking about predators, and the idea being pushed to lower the age of consent. The entire culture of western gays going to Thailand to screw minors is disgusting and I wish the gay community would be more outspoken against it. Laws should apply equally to gays and heterosexuals. If there's going to be equality for gays then they will have to stop advertising sex with minors.

http://www.mega.nu/ampp/baldwin_pedo...osexuality.pdf


Washington's Other Sex Scandal: - Reason Magazine

This gay guy thinks we should not name all under age sex as pedophillia. This is insane. You have to admit that there is a problem.

There are planeloads of heterosexual men who go to Thailand to screw minors. Should we ban straight adoption until we resolve that?

Seriously, this is why we have adoption agencies: to keep out bad parents (gay and straight) who would mistreat their children on whatever grounds (not just sexual).

But you are so determined to be ignorant and bigoted that I'm not sure why we're even bothering.

[coolian2]

Don't know if anyone's caught this



Seemed like the thread needs it abouts now.

[Varitek]

No, this thread needs this

Unbelievable McCain Vs. Obama Dance-Off Video

[martha]

Originally Posted by yolland

I was under the impression that OC has quite a few megachurches; do they never fund signs like that?

We do have megachurches, but as far as I've driven around the county, I haven't seen any "pro-life" billboards here in OC.
And there were homemade small billboards along those back roads.

Originally Posted by yolland

I've never personally seen a restaurant serving "freedom fries," and really don't have the impression that that is or ever was commonplace anywhere in the US. The only example Wikipedia offers of a place that still serves them is a restaurant in Philadelphia.

I don't remember exactly where this restaurant was, but it wasn't in Philly. I haven't driven there (yet).

Originally Posted by yolland

What did you see to make you say "They do question people's patriotism"?

The signs gave me reason to pause, and I saw other evidence of that whole "Amurica" ideal. Many more 9/11 signs, flags, that kind of thing. I got a sense of that "love it or leave it" mentality, the feeling that if you questioned how things were handles, you were a real American. I'm sure Palin's words are resonating with them.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Varitek

No, this thread needs this

Unbelievable McCain Vs. Obama Dance-Off�Video

That was most excellent my friend...

[martha]

Follower: Evangelist Alamo had 9-year-old bride - CNN.com

This straight guy thinks it's ok to marry children. You have to admit that there is a problem.

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Washington's Other Sex Scandal: - Reason Magazine

This gay guy thinks we should not name all under age sex as pedophillia. This is insane. You have to admit that there is a problem.

[toscano]

Originally Posted by yolland

I travel by car quite a bit, and I see pro-life billboards in cities and suburbs all the time. There are probably more overall in rural areas, but I'm genuinely surprised if you consider pro-life billboards to be a uniquely rural curiosity. I was under the impression that OC has quite a few megachurches; do they never fund signs like that?

Well, I don't know about FUNDING them, but I live a stone's throw away from the megachurch in OC where Obama and McCain appeared to answer questions, and my daughter goes to that church, and no, there is not one pro-life sign anywhere around here or on the church campus (I drop off/pick up my daughter there frequently)

What we DO see a lot of around here recently are "yes on 8" bigots, holding ridiculous signs like "yes on 8 - religious freedom" and "yes on 8, less government"

WTF????

I drive by an intersection and glare at them, they stare at me with moronic grins and give me a thumbs up, and I think, "well, if they want to express to me with a finger, I should do likewise", and I do. The looks on their faces is to die for....

[cydewaze]

Originally Posted by toscano

What we DO see a lot of around here recently are "yes on 8" bigots, holding ridiculous signs like "yes on 8 - religious freedom" and "yes on 8, less government"

When your cause is that unpopular, you tend to dress it up to look like something it's not. I'm surprised you haven't seen "Stop terrorism, vote yes on 8" signs.

Some people aren't happy unless they try to make everyone else as miserable as they are. But what they don't realize is that making everyone else miserable won't cure their own misery, so they just move on to the next "cause" where they can make yet another group of people miserable.

Misery is a vicious snowball.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Not all gays have sex with minors but they do on a higher rate than heterosexuals do. I'm pretty sure that the ones who adopt aren't looking for quick sexual satisfaction but are trying to raise kids. I'm talking about predators, and the idea being pushed to lower the age of consent. The entire culture of western gays going to Thailand to screw minors is disgusting and I wish the gay community would be more outspoken against it. Laws should apply equally to gays and heterosexuals. If there's going to be equality for gays then they will have to stop advertising sex with minors.

what the FUCK are you talking about?

[martha]

Originally Posted by cydewaze

When your cause is that unpopular, you tend to dress it up to look like something it's not. I'm surprised you haven't seen "Stop terrorism, vote yes on 8" signs.

I've seen "Parental Rights=yes on 8" signs.

[cydewaze]

Originally Posted by martha

I've seen "Parental Rights=yes on 8" signs.

Someone should make exact duplicates of all the "Yes" signs and make "No" versions of them, but with the "No" in a font that's few point sizes larger.

The when people think back, "Did I see a yes or no on those signs?" they might remember the No signs that there wasn't a Yes version of.

[Utoo]

Barack Obama's campaign is friggin' genius. They've been so damn creative, it's impressive.

This is an official Obama campaign website: Yes We Carve | Change Your Pumpkin, Change Your World

Carve Obama pumpkins! Send in your pics--win an iPod! (advertise for Obama in the meantime ) It's a small idea, but a sign of the underlying brilliance.

Here's a video from the site. Watch it all the way through---there are some amazing pumpkins scattered throughout (sting, purple, indy, diamond...turn the volume down if you want).

YouTube - YES WE CARVE

There are more pictures on the website I posted above.

[Irvine511]

^ is Obama endorsing the anti-American, pagan holiday of Halloween?

i know lots of voters in Western PA who are going to reject this anti-American nonsense.

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by Varitek

There are planeloads of heterosexual men who go to Thailand to screw minors. Should we ban straight adoption until we resolve that?

Seriously, this is why we have adoption agencies: to keep out bad parents (gay and straight) who would mistreat their children on whatever grounds (not just sexual).

But you are so determined to be ignorant and bigoted that I'm not sure why we're even bothering.

I apologize for my prior posts. I made a big mistake. I'm having trouble reconciling my original beliefs in gay marriage and gay adoption and after reading those articles I posted. I've changed my mind. I can't reconcile them at all.

I don't believe in gay marriage anymore, and gay adoption. I used to believe in conservative arguments in favor of it. For the homosexual related stores that specialize in trying to help people avoid getting caught having under age rough trade in other countries plus advertising material that prefers under age sex and also gay people actually trying to change the terminology of pedophillia to something okay and asserting in studies that it's not even psychologically damaging disturbs me enormously. I actually had trouble sleeping.

No advertising in any store should legally have material like this. This stuff should be banned to smithereens!!

If the gay community can't distance itself from these practices of recruitment then they have no real moral background. This "get them while their young" is disgusting. If it's a hate crime to beat up gay people it should be a hate crime to solicit sex from minors. What happened to the idea of consenting adults?

If it's unacceptable for heterosexuals then it should be unacceptable for homosexuals. There should not be subset of categories that accepts it. Any psychologists that say there is little psychological damage to minors who have sex with adults clearly show they are morally bankrupt.

It's even invaded the church. I don't think Catholic priests should be protected like they have been. Can anyone believe in god after all these scandals? Where's God to light-up these bastards? Just leave the kids alone!

Even the heterosexual community is getting retarded with products like this that sexualize children:

Heelarious® ~ her first high heels

ARE PEOPLE INSANE?????!!!! This stuff is not cute. Let babies be babies.

Childhood - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What happened to the idea of childhood?

I'm glad both democrats and republicans want to continue to support the original definition of marriage, because I believe that marriage between a man and a woman is a biological institution that existed before religion. For people to psychologically function properly they should at least go through puberty up to age 18 before they can sleep with older people.

[Utoo]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

.

Please start an ignorant thread on miseducated bigotry.

Let's keep this thread actually talking about the Presidential campaign.


Thanks.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by martha

Drive the back roads of Kansas and Illinois and Missouri someday.

It will scare the shit out of you.

If you think driving through the Midwest is scary...

youuuuuuuu might be an elitist.

martha, they why most liberals "flyover" us as they travel from Malibu to Vermont or from the Upper Westside out to Berkeley.