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Old 10-12-2008, 06:18 PM   #261
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Actually I agree with financeguy that I think McCain isn't a racist and probably this isn't the way he wants to win. However, it is also extremely duplicitous of him to be standing up (to some degree) against these loons while Palin is going around inciting them. I'm sorry but you can't have it both ways.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:29 PM   #262
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I never really classed him as a true-believin' neo-con.
Neither did I. I don't think McCain is a racist. I do however think he was going down a very dangerous and poorly chosen path (to put it mildly) in an attempt to rally support. My hope is that yes, he has realized that now, but then as anitram has pointed out, he can't have it both ways. It comes across as disingenuous when only one member of the team is calling for a respectful campaign.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:45 PM   #263
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Neither did I. I don't think McCain is a racist. I do however think he was going down a very dangerous and poorly chosen path (to put it mildly) in an attempt to rally support. My hope is that yes, he has realized that now, but then as anitram has pointed out, he can't have it both ways. It comes across as disingenuous when only one member of the team is calling for a respectful campaign.
I agree. I feel he's back himself in a corner...
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:45 PM   #264
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It’s because Sarah Palin probably is "one of us" (them). She's more than happy to stoke those feelings, she probably isn't sure whether Obama is an evil secret Muslim or not herself. It's not the elitist thing that's getting them angry, it's that. Go to a site like Free Republic and just have a look around. The ignorance and fear is absolutely stunning, and it's from there that the anger is getting whipped up. It's certainly not about healthcare or tax.

I'd like to think that McCain genuinely doesn't like it and doesn't want to either go down or win that way. I think he sold his campaign out a long time ago, but if you notice, he has pushed back a little a few times. Whether thats just for appearence or not could be disputed, but I would like to think there is some decency there.

Like the wide open racism in the primaries, when I wanted Clinton to get up there and say something like - "If you are not voting for Obama simply because he's black" (remember people were openly saying that in, I think, West Virginia?) "then I don't want your vote either" - I'd love to see McCain do something similar now.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:56 PM   #265
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As a supporter of McCain in 2000, the only solace I take is a full on, soul searching mea culpa. next year about the tactics that he's been forced into.

You can tell by his reaction to the lady who called Obama an "arab" that he loathes this.

He's got so much pressure behind him to go this route... don't completely throw McCain under the bus just yet. Palin, I would suspect she's a true believer.
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Old 10-12-2008, 06:58 PM   #266
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Democrats out-register Republicans in swing states - Telegraph

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In eight swing states that could decide the election, Democrats have out-registered Republicans by ratios ranging from 2 - 1 to 6 - 1.

With electoral rolls now closed in most states, Mr Obama has a clear advantage among first-time registrants, many of whom are under 30 or African Americans. The big question mark over new voters is how many of them will show up on Nov 4.

Historically their turn out rate has been significantly lower than regular voters. Even allowing for that, Democrats are quietly confident that a silent minority of new voters are lying in wait to deliver the White House - and cancel out the voters who may be unwilling to support a black candidate.

If new voters turn out at the same rate as in 2004 - and cast their ballots in line with their registration - then Mr Obama is set to win the swing states he needs to beat Senator John McCain.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:06 PM   #267
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As a supporter of McCain in 2000, the only solace I take is a full on, soul searching mea culpa. next year about the tactics that he's been forced into.

You can tell by his reaction to the lady who called Obama an "arab" that he loathes this.

He's got so much pressure behind him to go this route... don't completely throw McCain under the bus just yet. Palin, I would suspect she's a true believer.
Yeah... When McCain loses he'll end up looking like a complete tool. He's turned his back on almost every piece of integrity he had left... It's actually pretty sad.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:07 PM   #268
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It alienates independents, doesn’t bring them in. There’s no need to keep whipping up the base, certainly not from McCain anyway, he’s got Palin out there and there are plenty who even if McCain puts them offside will now still show up and vote for her or against Obama. They’re on board now and that won’t change. He has nothing to lose and a bit to gain (independents, his reputation/legacy) from coming out and putting all of it down, something along the lines of: He’s a Christian. He’s an American. He’s a good guy, a great family man. He’s worked hard, he’s earned it. None of this is disputable. I absolutely, truthfully, do not believe anything otherwise and if you do, frankly, you are wrong. You should however definitely not vote for him if you believe (onto policy/issues differences)… Fat chance of that happening, I know, but it would certainly save his reputation and would only gain him votes, not lose them, as is clearly happening now while he lets ignorance, racism, fear and hate control the tone and message of his campaign.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:12 PM   #269
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You can tell by his reaction to the lady who called Obama an "arab" that he loathes this. [/I].
Yes, the look on his face and the reaction to that were quite telling. A lot of people thought he should have more forcefully put her down, but you could see he was floored by it, in a “My god, I can’t believe this is really happening” kind of way. More sad than angry. Sometimes, like at that moment, I think he looks defeated by more than just Obama, but by his own campaign as well, and that’s why I like to think that there’s still some decency in there.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:22 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by U2DMfan View Post
As a supporter of McCain in 2000, the only solace I take is a full on, soul searching mea culpa. next year about the tactics that he's been forced into.

You can tell by his reaction to the lady who called Obama an "arab" that he loathes this.

He's got so much pressure behind him to go this route... don't completely throw McCain under the bus just yet. Palin, I would suspect she's a true believer.
But doesn't the fact that he picked a "true believer" as his running mate say something about him? It says he either didn't mind that mentality in his running mate or he wasn't aware of it.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:23 PM   #271
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McCain's whole campaign has been schizophrenic. I believe that his time was in 2000. During Bush's first term, I always felt that McCain was one of the few Republicans I could stand, and that if a Republican had to win in 2000(and make no mistake I was 100% a Gore supporter) it should have been McCain and not Bush. But during Bush's second term, McCain began pandering and moving himself towards the right, positioning himself for the 2008 run, which, although he didn't announce until 2007, he had decided on at least a year or two before that. So the story of McCain's campaign has been that whereas most presidential campaigns spend most of their time on independents and undecideds, it had to focus on two different groups - the independents AND the right wing base. So he's continually had to play this game where he's talking to the base out of one side of his mouth and to independents out of the other. He's had to work so hard and do so much just to ensure the base vote that he's lost a whole lot of independents and even more liberal non-neo-con Republicans. Ironically, McCain might just share more personal beliefs with this latter group than he does with the base that he's had to sacrifice so much to 'get'.

So now his platform and persona are convoluted and not entirely convincing to the base and almost downright unconvincing to independents. The result is that he's struggling to ensure anyone's vote because any move that would win the base over would alienate the independents and vice versa. He's in a no-win situation.
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:34 PM   #272
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He's got so much pressure behind him to go this route... don't completely throw McCain under the bus just yet. Palin, I would suspect she's a true believer.
True believer in what, exactly?
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Old 10-12-2008, 07:38 PM   #273
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"McCain Vows To Whip Obama's You Know What"

Whip???

I know it's an expression, but for Christ's sake, maybe think about it....
too many Freudian slips....


McCain vows to whip Obama's 'you know what' - Yahoo! News
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:04 PM   #274
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McCain's whole campaign has been schizophrenic. I believe that his time was in 2000. During Bush's first term, I always felt that McCain was one of the few Republicans I could stand, and that if a Republican had to win in 2000(and make no mistake I was 100% a Gore supporter) it should have been McCain and not Bush. But during Bush's second term, McCain began pandering and moving himself towards the right, positioning himself for the 2008 run, which, although he didn't announce until 2007, he had decided on at least a year or two before that. So the story of McCain's campaign has been that whereas most presidential campaigns spend most of their time on independents and undecideds, it had to focus on two different groups - the independents AND the right wing base. So he's continually had to play this game where he's talking to the base out of one side of his mouth and to independents out of the other. He's had to work so hard and do so much just to ensure the base vote that he's lost a whole lot of independents and even more liberal non-neo-con Republicans. Ironically, McCain might just share more personal beliefs with this latter group than he does with the base that he's had to sacrifice so much to 'get'.

So now his platform and persona are convoluted and not entirely convincing to the base and almost downright unconvincing to independents. The result is that he's struggling to ensure anyone's vote because any move that would win the base over would alienate the independents and vice versa. He's in a no-win situation.
Excellent post
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Old 10-12-2008, 08:47 PM   #275
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.

To me that's troubling. ."

This should be more troubling:

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Old 10-12-2008, 08:52 PM   #276
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Actually, I find the inaction of a potential Commander-In-Chief in the face of hateful speech more troubling than some random citizens protesting a parade.
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:02 PM   #277
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Whoever wrote the captions to this video was an idiot for he has no clue the definion of simple words such as 'fact' or 'progressive'...



Like Diemen said, you should be more concerned about your nominee...
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:06 PM   #278
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Jeepers. Look at the odds on Paddy Power. I was thinking of betting on Obama, but not at those odds:

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US Election 2008 Specials Winning Candidate (Next President)
Singles Only. Others on Request. Bets will run onto the candidates' respective parties in the event that they can no longer participate in the election.

For all the latest in US Politics visit our dedicated microsite - electionbetting.com.
Barack Obama 1 - 9
John McCain 5 - 1
http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action...034&bir_index=
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:11 PM   #279
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You know, looking at this video some more (I didn't watch the whole thing the first time since it didn't take much to realize what a skewed view it was presenting), I'm struck by how insulting it is to New Yorkers in general. And it fits exactly into the hypocrisy of some on the right that others have alluded to in this thread.

Every September 11th, Republicans rally around the great city of New York and it's brave citizens who came together to overcome an enormous disaster. Every other day of the year New Yorkers are big city elitists who would rather cheer terrorists than "American patriots."

It's pathetic.
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Old 10-12-2008, 09:12 PM   #280
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The continued use of the word "intellectuals" as a pejorative term is the saddest fucking thing.....
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