2008 U.S. Presidential Campaign Discussion Thread-Part 10.

[dazzledbylight]

Originally Posted by sue4u2

I've lived through a lifetime of what can happen next. A President shot and killed. A Presidential candidate shot and killed. (The Kennedys)
The leader of equal rights movenment - shot and killed (Martin Luther King, Jr.) Presidents Reagan & Ford were shot at. Even George Wallace was shot at and lived. And so many other's lives that have been destroyed fighting for the rights of all American's.

This is what someone will do next if McCain and Palin don't stop what they are doing. What McCain is doing now by saying "Obama is no one to fear" is too little too late. He and Palin have lit the fuse, cocked the gun and it's just a matter of time too see if anyone can get a shot off or blow them away.
They (McCain/Palin) need to be begging for forgiveness. It will be on their heads if something happens to Obama or his family.

you & moi both.......
*sits down on the stoop next to sue4u*


keep the white light around Barack & Joe and their families & staff.........

[dazzledbylight]

Originally Posted by JOFO

Except this time it's not gonna work; Obama is up by 10 points as of today.

The more hate and fear they try, the more Obama's place is solid.

Solid.

Well I do have some quiet confidence that Obama will win. But I'll be praying just the same.

The most important thing is to totally turn out a ginormous amout of voters for Barack.
THAT might be the one sure way to win over Rovian tactics. I say this because they say in the 2006 election more democrats in the House & Senate actually won than did win, b/c election fraud took some of their wins away.
So the enormous turnout last time in 06 was able to overrun a fair amount of voter repression/dirty tricks etc by the Neo-con/Republicans.

There's a whole bunch of groups currently trying to help voters see if they have been illegally taken off the rolls already.

[anitram]

What had been a disdain for liberal intellectuals slipped into a disdain for the educated class as a whole.

...

It has lost the educated class by sins of commission—by telling members of that class to go away.

I have quoted bits of this article myself a couple of days ago. It is bang on. People who are educated, intellectuals, and heaven forbid went to the top schools are not welcome in the Republican party. Anti-intellectualism runs rabid, and Barack Obama was right this summer when he said that these people actually take pride in being ignorant. It is particularly appalling to me, maybe as an immigrant kid, because my parents always told us education was everything and it was the only chance at an equalizer that we had. They sacrificed everything to push us forward and we excelled. I came from means that were not even modest, so I don't understand why anybody in the same situation would not take pride in excelling and bettering themselves or their children. Instead, they look scornfully on the rest of us. What happened to the American dream, one has to wonder. Isn't Obama the perfect example of it?

[Maoilbheannacht]

Originally Posted by JOFO

Except this time it's not gonna work; Obama is up by 10 points as of today.

The more hate and fear they try, the more Obama's place is solid.

Solid.

Well, I'm not so sure. Take a look at Gallups results the past 4 days including today:

10/09/2008 - Obama by 11 points.
10/10/2008 - Obama by 10 points.
10/11/2008 - Obama by 9 points.
10/12/2008 - Obama by 7 points.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by anitram

I have quoted bits of this article myself a couple of days ago. It is bang on. People who are educated, intellectuals, and heaven forbid went to the top schools are not welcome in the Republican party. Anti-intellectualism runs rabid, and Barack Obama was right this summer when he said that these people actually take pride in being ignorant.

Sorry, but this is just total horse dung. George Bush and General Petraeus both have graduate degrees from the top schools in the country. The vast majority of the military's field grade officers have graduate degrees and they are more heavily Republican than nearly any other group in the country.

In fact, a gallup poll recently in the summer showed that among all people, John McCain led with people who had just a 4 year college degree. Obama led with those who did NOT have a 4 year college degree as well as those with graduate degrees.

If the race was to be decided by individuals who make over $100,000 dollars a year, McCain would win. McCain also leads among male voters and white voters.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Maoilbheannacht

Well, I'm not so sure. Take a look at Gallups results the past 4 days including today:

10/09/2008 - Obama by 11 points.
10/10/2008 - Obama by 10 points.
10/11/2008 - Obama by 9 points.
10/12/2008 - Obama by 7 points.

This could possibly mean that if McCain does well in the next debate, he could get back to within 3 or 4 points of Obama making it a race again.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Sorry, but this is just total horse dung. George Bush and General Petraeus both have graduate degrees from the top schools in the country. The vast majority of the military's field grade officers have graduate degrees and they are more heavily Republican than nearly any other group in the country.

In fact, a gallup poll recently in the summer showed that among all people, John McCain led with people who had just a 4 year college degree. Obama led with those who did NOT have a 4 year college degree as well as those with graduate degrees.

If the race was to be decided by individuals who make over $100,000 dollars a year, McCain would win. McCain also leads among male voters and white voters.

None of this contradicts the points she made. You're using your usual scattergun approach of throwing a bunch of darts at the dartboard in the hope that one or two of them hit the bullseye.

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Sorry, but this is just total horse dung. George Bush and General Petraeus both have graduate degrees from the top schools in the country. The vast majority of the military's field grade officers have graduate degrees and they are more heavily Republican than nearly any other group in the country.

In fact, a gallup poll recently in the summer showed that among all people, John McCain led with people who had just a 4 year college degree. Obama led with those who did NOT have a 4 year college degree as well as those with graduate degrees.

If the race was to be decided by individuals who make over $100,000 dollars a year, McCain would win. McCain also leads among male voters and white voters.

College education does not necessarily equal intellectualism. They're not one and the same. George Bush may have a graduate degree, but he sure as hell is not an intellectual. Are there a lot of people who have four-year, graduate, or ph.ds who are intellectuals? Yes. Does that mean you have to have one to be an intellectual? No, although I don't think you'd find too many people without at least a four-year degree who would be classified as such. Does that mean everyone who has one is an intellectual? I suppose it depends on what field the graduate or doctorate degree is recieved in, but overall, I'd say hell no. We're talking about two different things here. Intellectualism is a curiosity about the world, a desire to think deeply about things. That kind of thing. Now, I'm not saying that none of these people in the military who you say have graduate degrees are not intellectuals - I don't know them from Adam so I have no idea - but I am saying, saying, 'x has a graduate degree' does not automatically mean that x is an intellectual.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by namkcuR

Intellectualism is a curiosity about the world, a desire to think deeply about things. .

Absolutely correct.

[phillyfan26]

STING, there's only so much you can say with statistics. Sometimes, instead of statistics, you just analyze things. And I mean "you" in the general.

[Strongbow]

The October 13, 2008 issue of the Army Times has a new Military Times election survey of 4,293 members of all branches of the military. Here are the results:

If the presidential election were held today, for whom would you vote?

John McCain 68%
Barack Obama 23%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 2%
Other 2%




BY RACE OR ETHNICITY
WHITE/NON-HISPANIC

John McCain 76%
Barack Obama 17%
Undecided 5%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%


BLACK/AFRICAN-AMERICAN

John McCain 12%
Barack Obama 79%
Undecided 5%
Decline To Answer 4%


HISPANIC OR LATINO

John McCain 63%
Barack Obama 27%
Undecided 7%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 1%


OTHER RACE SPECIFIED

John McCain 58%
Barack Obama 30%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 3%
Other 2%




BY RANK

ENLISTED

John McCain 67%
Barack Obama 24%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 2%
Other 2%


OFFICERS

John McCain 70%
Barack Obama 22%
Undecided 5%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%




BY SERVICE

ARMY

John McCain 68%
Barack Obama 23%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 2%
Other 2%


NAVY

John McCain 69%
Barack Obama 24%
Undecided 5%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 1%


AIR FORCE

John McCain 67%
Barack Obama 24%
Undecided 7%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%


MARINE CORPS

John McCain 75%
Barack Obama 18%
Undecided 4%
Decline To Answer 2%
Other 2%




BY GENDER

MEN

John McCain 70%
Barack Obama 22%
Undecided 5%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%


WOMEN

John McCain 53%
Barack Obama 36%
Undecided 7%
Decline To Answer 3%
Other 2%





BY AGE

18-34

John McCain 65%
Barack Obama 27%
Undecided 5%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%

35 AND OLDER

John McCain 70%
Barack Obama 21%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 2%
Other 1%





BY DUTY STATUS

ACTIVE-DUTY

John McCain 67%
Barack Obama 24%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 2%
Other 2%


GUARD & RESERVE

John McCain 71%
Barack Obama 21%
Undecided 5%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%




Which of the
candidates would do
a better job as
president handling
the wars in Iraq and
Afghanistan?

John McCain 74%
Barack Obama 19%
Undecided 4%
Decline To Answer 2%
Other 2%




In making your decision
about voting for
president, your
candidate’s choice for
vice president is:

Very Important 37%
Somewhat Important 50%
Not Very Important 11%
Not At All Important 2%
No Opinion 1%



Which of the candidates
would do a better job as
president handling
military personnel issues,
such as pay and
benefits?

John McCain 73%
Barack Obama 18%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%





Which of the
candidates would do
a better job as
president handling
domestic issues, such
as education and the
economy?

John McCain 53%
Barack Obama 33%
Undecided 11%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%



Which of the candidates
would do a better job as
president handling
Defense Department
issues, such as weapons
purchases, the size of the
armed forces and national
security strategy?

John McCain 77%
Barack Obama 15%
Undecided 6%
Decline To Answer 1%
Other 2%





http://www.militarytimes.com/static/...003_ep_2pp.pdf




Barack Obama's lowest level of popularity among any major group or area in society is probably found in the US military!

[Bono's shades]

George Bush may have gone to Yale and Harvard, but the public image he tries to project is the exact opposite. His supporters laud him as the guy you wanted to go have a beer with. It's pretty clear his campaigns weren't exactly targeting intellectual voters. Meanwhile, Gore and Kerry and their supporters were slammed for being out-of-touch elitists.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by financeguy

None of this contradicts the points she made. You're using your usual scattergun approach of throwing a bunch of darts at the dartboard in the hope that one or two of them hit the bullseye.

All of it indicates that the following points are total rubbish!

People who are educated, intellectuals, and heaven forbid went to the top schools are not welcome in the Republican party. Anti-intellectualism runs rabid, and Barack Obama was right this summer when he said that these people actually take pride in being ignorant.

There is absolutely no evidence that people who are educated, intellectuals are not welcome in the Republican. If anything, especially when looking at officers in the US military, the opposite is true.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Bono's shades

Meanwhile, Gore and Kerry and their supporters were slammed for being out-of-touch elitists.

Actually its out-of-touch liberal elitists.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by namkcuR

Intellectualism is a curiosity about the world, a desire to think deeply about things. That kind of thing. Now, I'm not saying that none of these people in the military who you say have graduate degrees are not intellectuals - I don't know them from Adam so I have no idea - but I am saying, saying, 'x has a graduate degree' does not automatically mean that x is an intellectual.

But you believe if x is a Republican x is not an intellectual?

[Bono's shades]

I don't think the point is that you can't be a Republican and an intellectual at the same time. I think it's that the Republican Party isn't exactly going out of its way to court intellectual Republicans. Instead, the party is going after the so-called "Joe Six-Pack" voters.

[namkcuR]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

But you believe if x is a Republican x is not an intellectual?

No. But I believe that George Bush and John McCain are not. Even if they were, I believe that their campaigns are very purposefully geared towards anti-intellectualism. When you insist on pushing ads that try to make the case that your African-American opponent is a terrorist sympathizer, knowing damn well that it will hit its mark with people who have pre-existing racism and prejudice fueled by ignorance and lack of information/education, that's gearing it towards anti-intellectualism. No one who actually thinks about things falls for that crap. When your VP is going around using the phrase "Joe Six Pack" every chance she gets, and trying to hit the emotional mark by trotting her family out on stage at the convention, that's geared towards anti-intellectualism. When people like Pat Buchanan say after a debate that Joe Biden was boring because he spent too much time talking about facts, that's geared towards anti-intellectualism. Apparently the people who have power within the GOP have determined that that's the demographic to go for. Which is incredibly sad.

To be fair, Democratic campaigns have done it too to a lesser degree. Hilary's certainly did to a point. I just don't think Obama's has done it much yet.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Bono's shades

I don't think the point is that you can't be a Republican and an intellectual at the same time. I think it's that the Republican Party isn't exactly going out of its way to court intellectual Republicans. Instead, the party is going after the so-called "Joe Six-Pack" voters.

Actually the whole "Joe Six-Pack" voter thing is about blue collar Reagan Democrats, especially in western Pennsylvania, not Republicans.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by namkcuR

But I believe that George Bush and John McCain are not.

Well, thats not a very informed or intelectual statement at all. It suggest that you have not read very much about John McCain's life, and no I'm not talking about the 5 years he spent as a prisoner of war in North Vietnam.

But below is the statement I objected to.

People who are educated, intellectuals, and heaven forbid went to the top schools are not welcome in the Republican party. Anti-intellectualism runs rabid, and Barack Obama was right this summer when he said that these people actually take pride in being ignorant.

Its as uninformed and anti-intellectual a statement as any other statement in here.

[phillyfan26]

McCain finished in the top 98% of his college class. I suppose that makes him intellectual.