11 states vote on gay marriage

[nbcrusader]

But if your government is wrong?

A far more difficult question, as you could simply negate all of Jesus' command by labeling the various government actions as "wrong".

The one Biblical example I can give relates to the individual's relationship with God. If the government says I cannot worship God, or should worship something else, then I disobey my government (think Daniel Chapter 6).

 

[Anthony]

Really, this issue has been dissected, debated over, analysed, hung, drawn and quartered and really exhausted. I'm exhausted talking about it, and what is probably very true if you're homosexual (in which case, God help you) is that, chances are, you must be well and truly exhausted about it.

I'm going to keep my opinions short and very brief, because it is very late and I am very tired and I am sick and tired of the same old arguments again and again (not necessarily being put forward here in FYM, I am talking in a very general context now);

1) I choose to believe that, in a secular society, religion should not influence politics.

2) If religion does not have a direct influence the way we deal with politics, then there should be no politic that influences the way we go about deciding the laws that govern society.

3) I choose to believe that a person can have morality without religion, and that the reverse is also true.

4) My conclusion is; bringing up God and the Bible (which I think makes it clear, in several instances, what it thinks of homosexuals) really has, or should have, no relevance whatsoever to the laws that govern any country. Essentially; I really can't vouch for the argument that brings God into it.

Its hard to debate or even achieve a common ground on anything, when you bring God into it. For far too long, and I am not accusing FYMers specifically, people have used God as a justification for so many things, and I for one am saddened to see that He is now being used to justify further discrimination. And lets face it, not allowing someone to marry because of their sexual preference is pretty discriminatory.

I still would like to see a nation, starting with my own, that can truly say it has no prejeduices and doesn't condemn people to second-rate existences because of who they choose to marry, not to mention the other ludicrous reasons we as a society have accepted as the norm.

This continues to be my wish.

Ant.

 

[EmilyBono]

And lets face it, not allowing someone to marry because of their sexual preference is pretty discriminatory.
Ant. [/B]

I agree completely with this. I believe that if you are a homosexual, you were in all likelihood born that way. I mean, when I was five years old, I didn't have to wonder about what I wanted - I was chasing the cute boys around the playground. I am straight and that's just me. And I think if you are gay, you're just gay! You can't help who you are attracted to. And to say that is wrong and that two people of the same sex can't marry... I just don't agree with that. I agree, it is pure discrimination.

 

[xtal]

I think we should all be gay and all get married to one another...

haha, I'm kidding.

No, really, I am kidding. Seriously.

I hate how when people talk about gay marriage and say, "Look what it's gonna do to the sanctity of marriage, what's next?" Then they take it straight to the: "What's next, marrying your dog?"
Now THOSE people I worry about!

Gays I have nothing against. I'm all for their happiness, and America should be the first place to allow it, and allow love into our country.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I have no problem with Gay marriage as a moral issue, the institution of marriage is already very far gone and I do not think that attempting to let people who want to get married do so will damage it at all.

I would only be wary of gay marriage if it gave taxpayer funded benefits designed to assist families with children, those considerations are far more of an issue worthy of debate than the morality of people above the age of consent living their lives in a manner which does not harm anybody.

 

[mellyinsf]

Well, we've already prevented incestuous couples from marrying, even if they're menopausal or gay (precluding the possibility of giving birth to defomed kids).

So tell me again why it's so horrible that gays can get married in Massachusetts but not Ohio?

How can you compare a father having sex with a child (incestuous) and two adult people who love each other?

 

[GOP_Catholic]

Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.

 

[nbcrusader]

How can you compare a father having sex with a child (incestuous) and two adult people who love each other?

He wasn't.

Step back and take a look at the broader principles involved.

 

[tackleberry]

Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.

Are you for real? This is quite amusing.

Yes, us christians are sick and tired of sitting at the back of the bus (sarcasm) George Bush is "our" Rosa Parks (more sarcasm)

Thanks for the laugh!!

 

[EmilyBono]

Yes, that was quite a disturbing post. Equal rights is also a simple concept to grasp. You can be a homosexual and still have "family values."

 

[nbcrusader]

Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.

Let's drop the "back of the bus" talk.

Sure, there is plenty of snide comments made about conservative Christians. Whining about it won't help.

 

[GOP_Catholic]

Are you for real? This is quite amusing.

You saw on Tuesday, we are for real. There are 60 million people just like me over the age of 18 in this nation. When you count our children, the number swells up to around 80 million, and when you count the number of us that didn't make it to vote, that number now exceeds a total of 100 million.

Kerry was right, there will be a draft, the Christian Army was drafted, and we reported for duty on Tuesday. Our weapons of choice are the Bible and morals, we number in the tens of millions, we're spread all over this country, we have our own schools, our own charities, and we have another piece of important property - the White House.

 

[nbcrusader]

Kerry was right, there will be a draft, the Christian Army was drafted, and we reported for duty on Tuesday. Our weapons of choice are the Bible and morals, we number in the tens of millions, we're spread all over this country, we have our own schools, our own charities, and we have another piece of important property - the White House.

This is nonsense. There is no unified Christian front in the US. Just look at how many churches there are.

Your analogy is poor and offensive.

 

[tackleberry]

You saw on Tuesday, we are for real. There are 60 million people just like me over the age of 18 in this nation. When you count our children, the number swells up to around 80 million, and when you count the number of us that didn't make it to vote, that number now exceeds a total of 100 million.

Kerry was right, there will be a draft, the Christian Army was drafted, and we reported for duty on Tuesday. Our weapons of choice are the Bible and morals, we number in the tens of millions, we're spread all over this country, we have our own schools, our own charities, and we have another piece of important property - the White House.

Well, it's good to know that 100 million people will be suited up for a Holy War. The Christians vs....who? The evil Homosexuals, the Pagans, and the Heathens? I'll be sure to grab some popcorn for this show.

My insticts tell me that God and Jesus are pissing themselves out of glorious over-joyed laughter at your posts. I will join them.

 

[U2Traveller]

I agree that Christians are a strong and up and coming force and it's MEANT to be that way. It would be a nice day if all Christians could unite, like LDS people have always believed they should.

Do these Christians, in your eyes, include JW's and LDS people? Because I know in the past that this just wasn't the case, even though it was totally incorrect.

If I can expect THAT kind of new day, then great. Maybe no more picketing our conference center during General Conferences, anymore, heh, and burning things that are holy to us. K?

 

[nbcrusader]

I agree that Christians are a strong and up and coming force and it's MEANT to be that way. It would be a nice day if all Christians could unite, like LDS people have always believed they should.

Scripture teaches us to be of one Spirit. If we all have Jesus at the center of our lives, we would naturally be more united. But a simple review of history will show you that this has not happened.

Do these Christians, in your eyes, include JW's and LDS people? Because I know in the past that this just wasn't the case, even though it was totally incorrect.

This is probably better left for a different thread. There is obviously differences of opinion, from a theological point of view, on whether LDS are Christians.

 

[U2Traveller]

Scripture teaches us to be of one Spirit. If we all have Jesus at the center of our lives, we would naturally be more united. But a simple review of history will show you that this has not happened.



This is probably better left for a different thread. There is obviously differences of opinion, from a theological point of view, on whether LDS are Christians.

Well, there is NO question. We are. And we've always voted for our values and beliefs.

 

[nbcrusader]

Well, there is NO question. We are. And we've always voted for our values and beliefs.

"We are" what?

LDS are fairly united, if that is what you mean.

 

[U2Traveller]

"We are" what?

LDS are fairly united, if that is what you mean.

We are Christian. There is no room for debate. And yes, we have always been very united all over the earth.

I wonder how LDS people in other countries feel about Bush being reelected. Hmm. You don't seem to hear much from them.

 

[nbcrusader]

We are Christian. There is no room for debate. And yes, we have always been very united all over the earth.

Well, as I suggested, that is a topic better left to another thread. I know you are taught one thing. But there are significant theological differences between LDS and Protestant belief.

 

[mellyinsf]

He wasn't.

Step back and take a look at the broader principles involved.

yes he was, he directly compared incest to gays. The broader picture is equal rights and the question of discrimination.

 

[U2Traveller]

Well, as I suggested, that is a topic better left to another thread. I know you are taught one thing. But there are significant theological differences between LDS and Protestant belief.

You know I am taught one thing? What? That I'm Christian? We're not as different as you think. Different doesn't mean devoid and wrong. In fact, it could mean with more and even more correct.

 

[BVS]

Marriage = 1 man + 1 woman

That is the way it's going to be, I don't care how many lawsuits are filed or how many parades are staged or how many .Org websites are set up, the concept of marriage is simple to grasp, 1 man + 1 woman.

Christians/Catholics are through with sitting at the back of the bus watching Hollywood and the Left hijacking family-values, our commencement of reclaiming America and making America what it once was took place on Tuesday.

If for some reason a person doesn't like what is happening to this Christian nation which is being reborn, if they don't like the fact that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman, they are allowed to go and start their own country somewhere else. There are planes leaving America every hour on the hour, good luck in your new anything goes utopia.

Christians are done sitting at the back of the bus.

First of all repeating yourself using the very offensive "back of the bus" line is not going to make the crap analogy any more potent.

Second of all, one day homosexuals will be able to marry, just take a look at history. At one time people here owned slaves, people used the bible as it's justification, then they were freed. Once again people used the Bible there too. But then we still had segregation, you know when people really did "sit at the back of the bus", look down water hoses and face burning crosses. But believe me we have a long way to go. At one time in this country it was illegal for interratial marriages but that too is now gone.

Women voting, equality among races, etc. all of these issues were at one time being fought against by the majority. Often using "religion" as their justification. All of these issues have passed and are now part of everyday life just like gay marriage will someday.

Calling for your "Christian" army in the tone of which you do will divide true Christianity and will send it crumbling down on itself. You already have it divided by stressing the difference between Christian and Catholic. You don't speak for this Christian, and frankly I'm glad that you don't, because if you're driving please let me off at the next stop.

 

[sharky]

Well, it's good to know that 100 million people will be suited up for a Holy War. The Christians vs....who? The evil Homosexuals, the Pagans, and the Heathens? I'll be sure to grab some popcorn for this show.

I think he meant the Jews, the Muslims, the Buddists, the Hindus and anyone else who is not "with them" and therefore "against them". But as my grandmother likes to remind me when I tell her my fiance is Jewish -- "Well, he can always convert."

As I start to think about this more, I think the two things that most concern me are 1) my perseption that this is government-sponsored bias [bigotry I believe but I know others feel that is too strong] and 2) that the government seems to be making laws based on these moral/religious issues. I love being a Catholic but I don't want the government telling my church what to do under any circumstances. I believe in gay marriage, but only civil marriage. I don't believe the goverment should force the Catholic church to perform gay ceremonies if the Catholic church doesn't want to. That being said, what if the Episcopal church decides to allow gay marriage recognized by their church, for example? We now have laws on the books that tell the church it can't do that. What about if Jewish rabbis decide to allow gay marriage? They can't do it. Or, if they do, a marriage in the church or temple will not be recognized by the government and therefore, the basic benefits of marriage will not be recognized.

There is a difference between a religious marriage and a civil marriage. I think these laws are worrisome because they are beginning to blur the line between government and religion. I don't want the government telling my church what to do and I don't want the church telling my government what to do.

 

[U2Traveller]

It is not noble and good to distance yourself from this GOP Catholic, alright? I know darn well that he doesn't think I'M Christan, but I am, I don't agree with this "all Christians are together and at the back of the bus" thing, but I'm not going to separate myself from him, either. That is JUST as negative and divisive as what he is doing.

P.S. church shouldn't tell gov't. what to do and mine never has...and as far as I can see church isn't telling them what to do now. But, PEOPLE ARE!!!! And some church is IN people!

 

[nbcrusader]

You know I am taught one thing? What? That I'm Christian? We're not as different as you think. Different doesn't mean devoid and wrong. In fact, it could mean with more and even more correct.

I know the difference between what the Bible says and what Mormons teach. The teachings conflict with each other. I know the difference. I made a point of learning the difference.

 

[BVS]

It is not noble and good to distance yourself from this GOP Catholic, alright? I know darn well that he doesn't think I'M Christan, but I am, I don't agree with this "all Christians are together and at the back of the bus" thing, but I'm not going to separate myself from him, either. That is JUST as negative and divisive as what he is doing.

P.S. church shouldn't tell gov't. what to do and mine never has...and as far as I can see church isn't telling them what to do now. But, PEOPLE ARE!!!! And some church is IN people!

To the first part, I'm distancing myself like I would any bad influence. That's it.

To the second part, if people came out in droves to say non-Christians shouldn't be allowed to build places of worship, would that be OK? Should we make it law then? Believe me I know thousands of people who think Jews, Mormons, Muslims, etc are burning in hell. You say the Church isn't telling the government what to do, but these views are based soley on religion.

This is the same thing. People think homosexuality is a sin therefore they shouldn't have this right. Well as soon as that line is crossed the next step will be well your religion is a sin therefore you shouldn't have that right. It's a dangerous dangersous line. Thanks George for putting it up there with everything else.

 

[sharky]

P.S. church shouldn't tell gov't. what to do and mine never has...and as far as I can see church isn't telling them what to do now. But, PEOPLE ARE!!!! And some church is IN people!

What about the archbishop who said he would not give communion to pro-choice candidates? What about the athiests who don't go to church but now live under a policy that was put on the books because of the churches? When you vote on whether a football stadium should be built with city taxes, you may use your faith to say "Well, I don't want the traffic in the area especially on Sunday near my church" or "It will bring jobs to the area, which is good for a poor and as a good Christian I look out for the poor." If you drop the Christian part, you can still make the argument for or against if you're an athiest.

When you vote on a gay marriage bill, why would an athiest support the ban? There is no way to take religion out of this issue, but you can vote on the stadium issue without using religion as a guide if you so wish. The problem is a very large majority of people who support the ban based their decision on what their churches told them.

 

[U2Traveller]

I know the difference between what the Bible says and what Mormons teach. The teachings conflict with each other. I know the difference. I made a point of learning the difference.

Nope. Ours does NOT conflict. YOURS actually diverges and sometimes is totally devoid of things, and sometimes is totally in conflict. I study the Bible, too, and I know what I have and know.

Really, the point is moot. Your verdict is wrong.

I am Christian.

And as a Christian I will say that I am not pleased with Bush, not many Christians around here are. BUT, Kerry was just NOT a better choice, in fact worse.

 

[U2Traveller]

To the first part, I'm distancing myself like I would any bad influence. That's it.

To the second part, if people came out in droves to say non-Christians shouldn't be allowed to build places of worship, would that be OK? Should we make it law then? Believe me I know thousands of people who think Jews, Mormons, Muslims, etc are burning in hell. You say the Church isn't telling the government what to do, but these views are based soley on religion.

This is the same thing. People think homosexuality is a sin therefore they shouldn't have this right. Well as soon as that line is crossed the next step will be well your religion is a sin therefore you shouldn't have that right. It's a dangerous dangersous line. Thanks George for putting it up there with everything else.

I totally agree that this shouldn't have been something to vote on. I'm offended by it and it's wrong, and I am a Christian. It's wrong. That should've never been there. It's really stupid, and frankly I don't see how in the heck they got on the ballot and what the big freakin' deal is. Like many have said, if you don't agree, just don't do it, or ignore it.