It turns out U2.com's Zootopia has some worthwhile discussion afterall. I found this post online there, and thought it worth sharing. It certainly helped to diffuse my anger; I hope it does the same to you as well.
"An Open Letter To U2, Principle Management, & U2 fans:
Now, you might call me crazy, but I'm just going to run with this, so bear with me.
In Nov. of 2004 Bono spoke with XFM regarding the stolen CD, "Bootlegs are fine if you're making a few of them for your friends I've no problem with that but if its big business, bad ass crime, I don't think you want to be a part of that - and that's what this is. We're dealing with some nasty people and I don't think you should be paying for their summer holiday in Ibiza."
There was also mention of Eminem's leaked album and the relationship both acts have with Interscope, "Same person we think," he explained, "It's never nice to have a little thief in charge of your release campaign for your new album, however it (sic) up there."
So, in Nov. of 2004 U2 and Crew already knew there was a threat to their new album release's campaign. Such campaigns include promotions, two of which are websites and tours. So, take a wild guess where I'm headed.
I do not blame U2 or PM. I believe that not only were we, the fans, scammed, but also U2.
I'll tell you why... I phoned PM in New York and spoke with a lovely young lady. Instead of screaming and yelling, I remained calm and simply asked her a few questions without lodging any complaints. One of the questions I asked was, "Are U2 and PM aware of what has happened with the presale and how few fan club members were able to get GA tickets, yet there are several available on eBay for exorbitant prices?" I just wanted to know if they knew and I needed to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Her reply was, "Yes, U2 and PM are aware..." and somewhere in her words, I just felt, I knew instantly that U2 and PM did not know this was going to happen. They did not do this to us. It was done to them and via them to us.
Now, I know naysayers may say, "Well, how could they not know?" Or, "U2 has always prided themselves on overseeing all facets of the U2 enterprise." Well, my fellow fans, even U2 can be lied to.
I've read several theories on several boards as to what actually occurred. There's the Ticketmaster version claiming 1) they were unprepared for so many people logging on at once and 2) that we were at fault for not having cookie or firewall settings correctly adjusted for their site. There's the 'hackers created a key-gen to get pass codes' version and the 'scalpers (touts) bought several memberships to buy up all the good tickets on several computers, etc.' version.
But none of these felt right, so I investigated further and discovered that Ticketmaster has been investigated and that some of the findings included 'Unacknowledged Methods,' such as employees skimming off the top and selling to ticket brokers, as well as 'Corrupt Practices,' such as brokers "paying illegal and substantial bribes (premiums over the face price of the ticket) to various persons who have control over tickets at the original point of sale...(such as employees of Ticketmaster...)."
After reading some more, I sat back and asked myself what I usually ask when faced with a mystery and several options, "What's the simplest solution?" (As inspired by Occam's Razor.)
Clearly, such options as hackers generating enough pass codes and/or brokers actually buying enough memberships to make fans unable to purchase even just 2 GA tickets to 1 show is ridiculous. In fact, it's about as ridiculous as Ticketmaster's apology and explanation of the situation.
The simplest solution, IMHO, is that 'big business, bad ass crime' is the villain and who represents 'big business, bad ass crime' in the music industry more than Ticketmaster? Record Labels.
Think about it... U2, the biggest band in the world, had their album leaked and Bono himself believes he knows who it was, yet U2 could do nothing about it, despite their best efforts and all their money.
Also, consider this: If employees are knowingly skimming off the top and selling to brokers, why doesn't Ticketmaster fire these people? Most likely because Ticketmaster gets a kick-back. How could record labels allow such corruption to continue, unless they themselves get kick-backs from Ticketmaster?
Matt McGee wrote an editorial on his site, @u2, that he believes the reason why fans are up in arms more so this time than the last tour is because we paid for the presale this time, unlike last time. Thus, his conclusion, the one reason we're upset is money.
Well, the one reason why I think all this happened is the same culprit: money.
Everyone always talks about how shady the entertainment industry is and how the music industry is the worst. However, mostly only insiders ever really see this kind of nastiness. This time we got to not only see it, but experience it first hand.
What has happened and what is happening is bigger than U2. From my earlier phone conversation I could tell that PM was angry over what happened to us and to them.
There is a chain here of cause and effect. The label (or an individual with power working within the framework of the label) allows authorized ticketing agents to be corrupt because such agents pay off the label (or individual). Money. The ticketing agents allow employees to skim off the top because they receive a percentage of such sales (why else keep these people as employees?). Money. The employees skim and sell to brokers for... Money. And then the brokers charge hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for tickets that many people with deep pockets are willing to pay.
Now, add to that all the tickets/seats given away for free, as is a very common practice in any business, and what do you have left? A handful of prime seats for a very lucky few fans who just happened to get through to the ticketing agent's website at the right moment.
Not very fair is it? But what do they all care? All parties involved end up making more money than imaginable, thus making all these shady acts worthwhile. (Heck, if you don't believe me, add up the number of individual tickets for the entire tour and multiply it by 100, now do it by 1000. Big difference!) The source of said tickets is unable to outright sell these tickets for $1,000 directly to the fans because no one would stand for it -- neither fans, nor the bands. Do it all behind the scenes and use something like pass codes and presales and ticketmaster.com and you're dealing with cold, sterile letters and numbers moving through cyberspace. They can do it to us because we have no other alternative. We will sit and wait like chumps as the screen jumps from 15 minutes wait time to 13 back up to 15 then to 5 and ultimately to either terrible seats or internal service errors.
The question is, does U2 have an alternative? Can they choose a ticketing agent other than Ticketmaster to handle all of their tickets? Do any other ticketing agents large enough to handle such a huge international fan base even exist?
End all be all, as stated before, I do not blame U2. I do believe they were equally scammed and did not see it coming. I also believe that they are stuck between a rock and a hard place: having to deal with the 'big business, bad ass crime' of the music industry and wanting to be fair to their fans. I think they got stuck in a bad place by nasty people bigger than them in both power and money.
Bono may have been named the 'most influential person in music' by Q Magazine, but if there's one thing I've learned living in Hollywood and trying to break into the film industry, it is that the truly most influential people are those you will never see or know; people behind the scenes with more money and power than all of Hollywood's A-list actors. And these people stay behind the scenes because they know that when you are that rich, it's safer to be unknown than famous. Bono may be the most influential person in music, but he's not the most powerful person in the music industry.
So, how do we bring this person down? I certainly don't think filing a class action lawsuit against U2 and PM will do it. Nope, that's probably just what they want to have happen because it shifts the blame and U2 become the scapegoats. So, how do we fix this? How do we help or make a difference? I don't know the answers to those questions, but I do know U2 is still my favorite band and I'd do just about anything to get them out of this situation."
Some food for thought, certainly. I did not write this and don't take any credit (or criticism!) for any of the above. This was posted by dreamchaser on Zootopia (http://www.u2.com/bbs/showflat.php?...ords=absolution&topic=&Search=true#Post126076). If this has already been posted here, I apologize, as I didn't see it anywhere.
"An Open Letter To U2, Principle Management, & U2 fans:
Now, you might call me crazy, but I'm just going to run with this, so bear with me.
In Nov. of 2004 Bono spoke with XFM regarding the stolen CD, "Bootlegs are fine if you're making a few of them for your friends I've no problem with that but if its big business, bad ass crime, I don't think you want to be a part of that - and that's what this is. We're dealing with some nasty people and I don't think you should be paying for their summer holiday in Ibiza."
There was also mention of Eminem's leaked album and the relationship both acts have with Interscope, "Same person we think," he explained, "It's never nice to have a little thief in charge of your release campaign for your new album, however it (sic) up there."
So, in Nov. of 2004 U2 and Crew already knew there was a threat to their new album release's campaign. Such campaigns include promotions, two of which are websites and tours. So, take a wild guess where I'm headed.
I do not blame U2 or PM. I believe that not only were we, the fans, scammed, but also U2.
I'll tell you why... I phoned PM in New York and spoke with a lovely young lady. Instead of screaming and yelling, I remained calm and simply asked her a few questions without lodging any complaints. One of the questions I asked was, "Are U2 and PM aware of what has happened with the presale and how few fan club members were able to get GA tickets, yet there are several available on eBay for exorbitant prices?" I just wanted to know if they knew and I needed to hear it from the horse's mouth, so to speak.
Her reply was, "Yes, U2 and PM are aware..." and somewhere in her words, I just felt, I knew instantly that U2 and PM did not know this was going to happen. They did not do this to us. It was done to them and via them to us.
Now, I know naysayers may say, "Well, how could they not know?" Or, "U2 has always prided themselves on overseeing all facets of the U2 enterprise." Well, my fellow fans, even U2 can be lied to.
I've read several theories on several boards as to what actually occurred. There's the Ticketmaster version claiming 1) they were unprepared for so many people logging on at once and 2) that we were at fault for not having cookie or firewall settings correctly adjusted for their site. There's the 'hackers created a key-gen to get pass codes' version and the 'scalpers (touts) bought several memberships to buy up all the good tickets on several computers, etc.' version.
But none of these felt right, so I investigated further and discovered that Ticketmaster has been investigated and that some of the findings included 'Unacknowledged Methods,' such as employees skimming off the top and selling to ticket brokers, as well as 'Corrupt Practices,' such as brokers "paying illegal and substantial bribes (premiums over the face price of the ticket) to various persons who have control over tickets at the original point of sale...(such as employees of Ticketmaster...)."
After reading some more, I sat back and asked myself what I usually ask when faced with a mystery and several options, "What's the simplest solution?" (As inspired by Occam's Razor.)
Clearly, such options as hackers generating enough pass codes and/or brokers actually buying enough memberships to make fans unable to purchase even just 2 GA tickets to 1 show is ridiculous. In fact, it's about as ridiculous as Ticketmaster's apology and explanation of the situation.
The simplest solution, IMHO, is that 'big business, bad ass crime' is the villain and who represents 'big business, bad ass crime' in the music industry more than Ticketmaster? Record Labels.
Think about it... U2, the biggest band in the world, had their album leaked and Bono himself believes he knows who it was, yet U2 could do nothing about it, despite their best efforts and all their money.
Also, consider this: If employees are knowingly skimming off the top and selling to brokers, why doesn't Ticketmaster fire these people? Most likely because Ticketmaster gets a kick-back. How could record labels allow such corruption to continue, unless they themselves get kick-backs from Ticketmaster?
Matt McGee wrote an editorial on his site, @u2, that he believes the reason why fans are up in arms more so this time than the last tour is because we paid for the presale this time, unlike last time. Thus, his conclusion, the one reason we're upset is money.
Well, the one reason why I think all this happened is the same culprit: money.
Everyone always talks about how shady the entertainment industry is and how the music industry is the worst. However, mostly only insiders ever really see this kind of nastiness. This time we got to not only see it, but experience it first hand.
What has happened and what is happening is bigger than U2. From my earlier phone conversation I could tell that PM was angry over what happened to us and to them.
There is a chain here of cause and effect. The label (or an individual with power working within the framework of the label) allows authorized ticketing agents to be corrupt because such agents pay off the label (or individual). Money. The ticketing agents allow employees to skim off the top because they receive a percentage of such sales (why else keep these people as employees?). Money. The employees skim and sell to brokers for... Money. And then the brokers charge hundreds, if not thousands, of dollars for tickets that many people with deep pockets are willing to pay.
Now, add to that all the tickets/seats given away for free, as is a very common practice in any business, and what do you have left? A handful of prime seats for a very lucky few fans who just happened to get through to the ticketing agent's website at the right moment.
Not very fair is it? But what do they all care? All parties involved end up making more money than imaginable, thus making all these shady acts worthwhile. (Heck, if you don't believe me, add up the number of individual tickets for the entire tour and multiply it by 100, now do it by 1000. Big difference!) The source of said tickets is unable to outright sell these tickets for $1,000 directly to the fans because no one would stand for it -- neither fans, nor the bands. Do it all behind the scenes and use something like pass codes and presales and ticketmaster.com and you're dealing with cold, sterile letters and numbers moving through cyberspace. They can do it to us because we have no other alternative. We will sit and wait like chumps as the screen jumps from 15 minutes wait time to 13 back up to 15 then to 5 and ultimately to either terrible seats or internal service errors.
The question is, does U2 have an alternative? Can they choose a ticketing agent other than Ticketmaster to handle all of their tickets? Do any other ticketing agents large enough to handle such a huge international fan base even exist?
End all be all, as stated before, I do not blame U2. I do believe they were equally scammed and did not see it coming. I also believe that they are stuck between a rock and a hard place: having to deal with the 'big business, bad ass crime' of the music industry and wanting to be fair to their fans. I think they got stuck in a bad place by nasty people bigger than them in both power and money.
Bono may have been named the 'most influential person in music' by Q Magazine, but if there's one thing I've learned living in Hollywood and trying to break into the film industry, it is that the truly most influential people are those you will never see or know; people behind the scenes with more money and power than all of Hollywood's A-list actors. And these people stay behind the scenes because they know that when you are that rich, it's safer to be unknown than famous. Bono may be the most influential person in music, but he's not the most powerful person in the music industry.
So, how do we bring this person down? I certainly don't think filing a class action lawsuit against U2 and PM will do it. Nope, that's probably just what they want to have happen because it shifts the blame and U2 become the scapegoats. So, how do we fix this? How do we help or make a difference? I don't know the answers to those questions, but I do know U2 is still my favorite band and I'd do just about anything to get them out of this situation."
Some food for thought, certainly. I did not write this and don't take any credit (or criticism!) for any of the above. This was posted by dreamchaser on Zootopia (http://www.u2.com/bbs/showflat.php?...ords=absolution&topic=&Search=true#Post126076). If this has already been posted here, I apologize, as I didn't see it anywhere.
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