Why Is It the U2 "Fan" thinks that they are entitled to-

[*Stormy*]

Thanks, but from what some of the eyewitnesses said, it was about 100.

Being the packrat I am, I actually still have an email from a mailing list, written by 3 girls who were skippped over in Boston. They were not old, or ugly, or uncool, but they had been to many shows. One of them had danced with Bono. This is what they three of them wrote together, after their experience and meeting Bono in the airport the next day (which to me would be better than a good spot!)

Though I am leaving their first names at the end for validity, I did delete the email address because divulging their identities would be rude. If any of you girls are on this board under another name, please forgive me, and add anything you can to this discussion.

Here is the post:


Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 13:34:35 -0700 (PDT)

Subject: The truth from Bono about Boston

[WIRE: The U2 Mailing List - Reflector]

I'm talking to the LA twins right now we're writing
this together. We've read all the posts, and everyone
is entitled to their own opinions. This is how the
band actually feels about it.

We missed our flight on Sunday because we were talking
with Bono. He specifically said that they wanted the
lines mixed up because they don't want to see the same
faces anymore. He doesn't want people traveling from
city to city because "it's not democratic to camp out
and for us to open another door to mix up the lines
and let people in who haven't camped out, there's
nothing wrong with that." (is anyone else upset about
this????) He then said "we want people with jobs to be
in the heart" (how do YOU THINK WE PAID TO GO TO
BOSTON????? we all work full time and go to school)
Someone asked him right after "do you think we get
paid to sit in line?" To which he was speechless for
a few seconds until someone said "people waited in
line for 22 hours...." then bono immediately turned to
us, we don't know how he know it was us, said "I know
and THAT'S ashame, and I'm sorry about that"

THIS IS COMING FROM BONO HIMSELF, he admitted that the
band was messing up all the other lines from all the
other shows Montreal/San Diego/Phoenix etc. Which if
we would have known we would never have gone to Boston
and even waited in line in CA. So don't be mad at
staff pro because they were doing what U2 told them.
We wish it were staff pro's fault. Even Fleet Centers
Staff was disgusted at what they did. Fleet Centers
Head Security came up to us after the show and said
"if it were up to us we wouldn't let U2 do that to you
guys" And this quote was before we heard it from
Bono's mouth.

After about ten minutes of talking he came over to us
and his mood completely changed. One of the twins was
crying and he held her and comforted her as she
apologized and he apologized again. He told us to
"forget about, don't worry about it" and he kept
saying it over and over again. He was looking in my
eyes when he was hugging her, and he was holding back
tears. He then came to me and I tried to change the
subject because his security guard was pissed and what
else could I say?. He grabbed my hand squeezed it for
along time looking directly in my eyes saying "thank
you thank you thank you" He went over to the other
twin who by this time had tears in her eyes as well.
He gave her a hug and said "I'll talk to you guys
later" He was late for an interview so he immediately
left and we did too.

The whole conversation between everyone was very
respectful and no one raised their voice.

Kelly, Neel, and Komel.


Footnote: Didn't old Wire crash the very next day? (June 13, 2001?)

.

 

[Diamond The U2 Patriot]

I talk to these 3 girls too, at LA3.
Thats the story they gave me.
They were nice and purdy -all 3.

Diamond

 

[Angel]

Well those three girls have completely missed the point.

Damn! there they were talking to the MAN and all they could do was give him flack? Cry over a show? (One of which they had seen umpteen times?@!!?) Puhlease! REALITY check.

I am sorry *Stormy* but that post aggravates me. What a bunch of middle class disrespectful spoiled brats.

 

[Blue Room]

No offense to these people but I think this is a prime example of taking being a fan of U2 WAY to seriously. Its a "hobby", a big one and a great one. But come on, there are way more important things to get that upset about. If that is the worst thing happening in your life, things are going pretty good.

 

[oliveu2cm]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
From what I read on the mailing lists at the time from eyewitnesses, it was far more than 10, when they got inside, every 'choice spot' was taken- the first 3 rows in front of the stage, and lining the entire inside and outside of the heart.

I was there- it was my first elevation show and i really had no idea what to expect, anyway my friend and I were number 78 or something. Approximately 50 people were chosen to go ahead, we were told they'd come back out .. whatever. I dunno, I was a little tiffed for about .02 seconds b/c it was my first show- I didn't realize WHY U2 were doing it- but when I did find out I full heartedly supported them. I think the pl who sat down were spoiled brats too- just really a shame. reallly really a shame. go to the back of the arena where you can't even SEE bono's face.. tell me if they're crying up there. anyway this is an old subject.

But I should say that the heart was not completely filled. My friend and i went in right in front of bono, about 3 rows back. there were these two pl bitching - two that got selected to go in early, bitching about the other people bitching. it gave me a bad taste in my mouth, so after a few annoying minutes my friend and i moved right along the ramp on adam's side- we were against the rail so that's not true it was lined inside (i can't remember out but don't think it was full- they only let 50 people in okay). So no, the entire heart was not filled.

the show fucking rocked- it ended up being on a dvd... you still got to see a U2 show.. at least it wasn't NJ 3rd leg where security messed up all the lines..

and I agree w/ what dr.who worded very well.

[edit] and i can tell you Larry was also v. pissed about the whole thing- also, those pl who sat down were screaming and yelling in the staircases as we went to go in, trying to get EVERYONE to protest and sit down. give me a freaking break.

------------------
Well you can bump and grind If it's good for your mind
Well you can twist and shout Let it all hang out
But you won't fool the children of the revolution

U2 Take Me Higher


[This message has been edited by oliveu2cm (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[*Stormy*]

Originally posted by Angel:
Well those three girls have completely missed the point.

Damn! there they were talking to the MAN and all they could do was give him flack? Cry over a show? (One of which they had seen umpteen times?@!!?) Puhlease! REALITY check.

I am sorry *Stormy* but that post aggravates me. What a bunch of middle class disrespectful spoiled brats.

Hey, like I said, meeting Bono in person and being hugged by him for goodness sakes is way better than any spot at any show. That would have totally made it up to me and made me very happy. *SIGH*

Olive: thanks for the firsthand report! I'm glad you had a good show, but you did see some of the crap. Didn't it bug you at all when they lied that the people were coming back out? That would have been the worst of it for me, more than them going ahead, but the lying.



[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[Angel]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
Hey, like I said, meeting Bono in person and being hugged by him for goodness sakes is way better than any spot at any show. That would have totally made it up to me, and made me very happy. *SIGH*

No Kidding!



[This message has been edited by Angel (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[spanisheyes]

fan An ardent devotee; an enthusiast.
[Short for fanatic.]
Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

U2 have always been devoted to their fans almost to the point of fault, and that is in no way a putdown of the band, but it is an issue of discussion, and DB9 has addressed this question in this post.

U2 have always gone the extra mile in reaching out to their fans, and trying to let them know how much they appreciate them. This connection that many people feel with the band becomes even more for some as they realize how accessible U2 makes themselves. So the risk that people make becomes and sense they could meet them is the jumping point people go with. In our enthusiasm, we forget about the band's privacy, or in some cases the feeling of others around us.

With the same extent that U2 has reached out to us, some fans have made that same effort towards the band as far as buying U2 memorabilia and going through great lengths financially, physically, and emotionally to make that connection with the band by seeing them live. It almost seems like a drug, something so accessible that you make every effort to attain it. I'm in no way trying to discount those individuals who do that, because I've heard some awesome stories, but within those stories I've also heard the humble voices of those who feel the band doesn't owe them anything, it was by choice and they were grateful for the opportunity to see them the greatest band ever in U2.

So I end where I started, and that is that some fans will become what the word 'fan' stems from and that is fanatical, because of U2's openess to their fans in being accessible and that human nature dictates some will allow their emotions to drive their actions to the point of the definition below.

fa?nat?i?cal (adj) Possessed with or motivated by excessive, irrational zeal.
Source: The American Heritage? Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

All we can do is keep the faith in the band, because we never want to close that window of accessibility that the band has afforded us, but at the same time use good judgement and respect for the band as human beings.

Chris


[This message has been edited by spanisheyes (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[joyfulgirl]

Ah, reliving the GA lines during this dearth of U2 news. Good times.

 

[Salome]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
I do think the band recognized the same faces and got annoyed, but still it is not right to change the rules without telling them.

there were no rules
they were giving some other people a chance for one night

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[oliveu2cm]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:

Olive: thanks for the firsthand report! I'm glad you had a good show, but you did see some of the crap. Didn't it bug you at all when they lied that the people were coming back out? That would have been the worst of it for me, more than them going ahead, but the lying.
[This message has been edited by *Stormy* (edited 03-28-2002).]

Mainly I was confused, but to be honest I wouldn't have given it a second thought if those pl screaming hadn't made such a big stink. Not that they made me mad at the band- it only got me irriatated w/ the pl's elitist attitude. Who really cares, we were close anyway.

And what was security supposed to say? "Oh the band wants new faces in front of them during a 4 show stint in boston?" or whatever the reason was? these people weren't rational, stormy; nothing would have appeased them even if Bono himself came out to explain.

so, nope, it didn't bother me. Guess I'm easy to please when U2's w/in a 1000 yard radius of me

------------------
Well you can bump and grind If it's good for your mind
Well you can twist and shout Let it all hang out
But you won't fool the children of the revolution

U2 Take Me Higher

 

[spanisheyes]

I'm going to break away from the discussion for a moment, and will you excuse me while I take what is entitled to me

and say hello to Carrie...how have you been girl? It is always good to see you in the forum, and what you bring to this forum as a fan with class.

Chris

[This message has been edited by spanisheyes (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[EPandAmerica]

Some people always look on the dark side of things. If you just try to look for the light..., guess what? YOU'LL FIND IT!

I was at Phoenix first leg, and # 111 aprox in line from 11 am. Well with all the doors being opened at once, I made it down to the floor and they shut the Heart gate with only four people in front of me. I was crushed, but looked for the light and found a spot 2nd row on the outside tip of the heart. It was very crowded, people were pushy and cranky. I am 5'3" and several times during PJ's set, thought I would pass out. Looooook for the light, it came. Bono sang most of Bad at the outside tip of the heart that night. Being a mere two feet from that man while he was singing THAT song was a GIFT of light that I will never ever forget.

 

[spanisheyes]

That was a beautiful story EPandAmerica...it was your story of expecting nothing, or feeling you were entitled to anything, but you went with what was afforded you, and like you said, you received the greatest gift that you could ever imagine, and that is the light as fans we should look for, and that is simply the music and the moments of inspiration that without warning may come our way with the band.

Chris

[This message has been edited by spanisheyes (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[sv]

U2 has done some great things to reward fans - for example, the Propaganda ticket offers were amazing and I'm grateful.

But U2 doesn't tour to reward fans. It's awesome when they do hit your town (and it does feel like a reward), but the main reason they tour is to make money and sell records. When a tour doesn't look profitable (which includes tickets, merchandise, and projected future record sales), they don't tour. Witness Australia.

I totally disagree with the idea that the fans who sat were "spoiled brats". In our lives we reasonably come to expect certain types of fairness. In the grocery store, when you get to the cashier first, you get taken care of first. The store doesn't let people cut in front of you. If they did, you wouldn't shop there - or you'd raise a minor ruckus.

Group civil disobedience is one of the most effective ways to peacefully achieve change. These fans DIDN'T throw tomatoes on stage or do anything violent or obnoxious. They merely chose to express their disappointment and outrage at what was clearly very unfair, and they did it in a peaceful yet determined manner. And they got their message across. I congratulate them.

As for ruining the DVD, U2 makes money and promotes their legacy by selling a DVD which HIGHLIGHTS the band's amazing relationship with their fans (i.e. the heart, the intensity, the crowd interaction). Clearly, U2 made choices that day that compromised this relationship. And they did it arbitrarily and without any prior warning to the poor fools who camped out. So in my view, they have only themselves to blame.

Here's the real question: it sounds like Bono's feeling were hurt by the fans' complaints - why does Bono feel like the fans owed him anything that day? He certainly didn't treat them with consideration.

 

[oliveu2cm]

Originally posted by spanisheyes:
I'm going to break away from the discussion for a moment, and will you excuse me while I take what is entitled to me

and say hello to Carrie...how have you been girl? It is always good to see you in the forum, and what you bring to this forum as a fan with class.

Chris

[This message has been edited by spanisheyes (edited 03-28-2002).]

Hi Chris

Thanks for your nice words! You know I also like seeing you around these parts. I chuckled a little when I read the word "fanatic" - friends always say "whoa! you should be on mtv's fanataic!"

that post was interesting- I think we all walk that line once in a while and the hope is that we don't cross it. Hope things go well w/ you and let's continue to "fuck up the mainstream"

lol

Carrie


------------------
Well you can bump and grind If it's good for your mind
Well you can twist and shout Let it all hang out
But you won't fool the children of the revolution

U2 Take Me Higher

 

[*Stormy*]

Originally posted by Salome:

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
I do think the band recognized the same faces and got annoyed, but still it is not right to change the rules without telling them.

there were no rules
they were giving some other people a chance for one night

If those other people wanted a 'chance' they should have gotten there sooner. Other people left work, school, and annoyed family members to be there because it meant that much to them. Me, I'm too chicken to spend the night on a sidewalk, so I was never in the highest numbers. But I think the ones who were there deserve what they waited for, I would.

I still say, though there were no official 'rules' EVERYBODY knew damn well what the deal was, and would not bother to sit in GA if they didn't think there was a payoff. It was always implied- first come, first serve, the better your number, the better spot you get to pick. NO ONE, not even any of you, would have sat in those lines if you thought that wasn't the way it was, come on. If that was not to be the case, those waiting should have been informed earlier in the day so they could leave. It's the sneakiness and the lying that gets to me more than anything. Also the fact that some who had never been to a show were penalized because those around them had been to many. I just don't think the band anticipated the amount of 'I Will Followers' they would have, they thought different ones would have a chance in different cities. Maybe next time someone will police the lines and toss anyone who's face was seen more than 3 times in a month. Who knows.(j/k)

 

[Salome]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
But I think the ones who were there deserve what they waited for, I would.

I already gathered that that is what you think
but that still doesn't make it a rule

------------------
Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[Blue Room]

Everyone knew there was a good chance of getting a better spot the earlier you got there, that is true. But if you thought you were guaranteed a spot you were being very naive.

As I said, I got there early just to try to get into the heart. I was near the front of the line at several shows. I still never knew for sure I would get in until I was actually in the heart and I certainly did not think I would get a specific spot in the heart for sure. There were so many unpredictable factors that occurred on that tour, not just Boston that should have served as indicators that there was NO guarantee at all. It was a risk with a possible enormous pay off. THAT is why most of us were out there.

[

[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[*Stormy*]

Originally posted by oliveu2cm:
Mainly I was confused, but to be honest I wouldn't have given it a second thought if those pl screaming hadn't made such a big stink. Not that they made me mad at the band- it only got me irriatated w/ the pl's elitist attitude. Who really cares, we were close anyway.

And what was security supposed to say? "Oh the band wants new faces in front of them during a 4 show stint in boston?" or whatever the reason was? these people weren't rational, stormy; nothing would have appeased them even if Bono himself came out to explain.

so, nope, it didn't bother me. Guess I'm easy to please when U2's w/in a 1000 yard radius of me

Okay I believe you, you were there, but you did get another chance to get closer later, and you have to admit that was better!

EP and America- it's cool how that worked out for you. After being in the heart twice (never getting there early enough to get the front of the stage) and seeing the action at the outside tip, my next 2 shows I CHOSE that spot though I could have easily made the heart, and I was NOT disappointed. Yes, Bono singing a few feet from your face is awesome!

 

[doctorwho]

Originally posted by pub crawler:
Please explain to me how one "earns" the right to be in the heart. First of all, my understanding is that one of the reasons U2 went with the heart concept was that they wanted the average fan to have a chance at getting a good seat. What happened is that a core of fans followed the band around and consistently got GA tickets, meaning that the band's plan didn't play out as they had hoped it would.

I know a few people, including Interferencers, that followed the band to various shows and usually got GA tix, but the people I know were just happy to be there and I never heard them bitch about their tickets, regardless of what they ended up with. I don't have a problem with those people.

Actually, I don't really care about what happened in Boston EXCEPT that the sit-down babies f****d up the Boston DVD. Now, every time I see the shots of the crowd in the heart during Elevation, I see those dorks sitting down, presumable crying that they don't have optimum position in the heart, as they've had a thousand times before.

Sorry, no sympathy here.

*applauds

Yeah, I waited in line for hours to get into the heart. My reward? I GOT INTO THE HEART!

I had a choice at one Boston show to be right at the tip or in the heart. I knew that if I were at the tip, I might get to touch Bono/Edge, but I really wanted to be in the heart - for that special feeling. It was a good decision and I enjoyed every moment (even with DB9 stepping all over me

).

Therefore, for these fans to complain because they weren't right up front is asinine and I agree with Bono. Now, if they had "row 1" seats and they were taken away from them in exchange for "row 13" - the fans could complain. But there was never any promise that waiting outside would guarantee even entrance to the heart let alone a choice spot in it!

Therefore, DB9, if you are complaining about these fans, then I fully agree. They are spoiled. Having waited outside in the heat as well as the cold wind, I was just thrilled to be in the heart. I didn't need to be in Bono's lap to make me happy.

 

[oliveu2cm]

Everyone has their own choice to make, in the supermarket or a U2 show.. deal with it or cry about it. I think that people's response shows a lot about their character. It's like that quote.. "you can make yourself miserable or make yourself happy. they both take the same effort" (paraphrased but you get the idea.)

those pl still got in the heart, stormy & sv. making them like .000000000000000001% of the entire population who got in the heart at a u2 show, never mind to see a show. and they obviously had been to more concerts or else they would not have even known any differently. I can see what you're saying but really, to throw a fit like that at a u2 show is so confusing to me- it's such a joyous event!

 

[oliveu2cm]

Originally posted by *Stormy*:
Okay I believe you, you were there, but you did get another chance to get closer later, and you have to admit that was better!

the only reason i went to the rail on the ramp was b/c of those people bitching, not necessarily to get "closer."

but as it does with u2.. things work in mysterious ways. I loved that section so much that i gave up opportunities at other shows to be gauranteed a spot Directly in front of Bono. Instead I went further back in the heart where I could move and groove and see everyone in the band, etc. So no, being "closer" (by 40 feet or so) means nothing.

 

[Blue Room]

I agree olive, I saw shows from the very front, sides and at the tip of the heart and I felt very lucky just to be in there every single time. My favorite spot though was dead center in the middle of the heart. The furthest away you could be from the band in the heart (still only about 15 to 20 ft!!).

[This message has been edited by Blue Room (edited 03-28-2002).]

 

[*Stormy*]

sv- good analogy with the grocery store, and about his feelings.

whomever said if they took your 1st row seats and gave you 13th you could be pissed- that is just about what happened.

everybody who keeps saying at least they were in the heart, well that's not good enough just to BE there when you could have been UP there! It's like having 500 bucks and someone steals 100, are you still happy to have 400 or are you sore for what was unfairly taken from you?

Olive, you did get to go to other shows and got closer to the stage, and you met them! Just think if that had been your only chance and it was messed up because of what happened. Time and better experiences smooth things over. I have been in various spots, and some ARE better than others. I would be 'happy' just to be in the heart if I barely made it, but when you wait all that time you do think you're getting more.

Pub, some are happy with any spot, to some it means more.

Diamondbruno, if you had been cheated out of your spot, you never would have been able to stage dive. Just think, some poor fool in that line may have had your wonderful experience to last him a lifetime but he was pushed back to a position too far to jump. Have mercy.

I can understand their disappointment because I know what fans go through for this band. Okay, I've said all I can say, I'll go away now.

 

[sv]

Oliveu2cm, these people did NOT "throw a fit". They didn't do anything crazy, violent, or obnoxious. They expressed their disappointment to the band in the only practical and peaceful way possible at a rock concert. We should appreciate their determination to get their message across WITHOUT doing anything crazy.

I agree with many here that fans do NOT have any legal right to expect a fair system from U2 - it's always a calculated risk. But the challenge these people made was not a legal one.

The operational social contract was this: If U2 wants to enjoy and benefit from a fantastic relationship with fans, they need to abide by a fair system. If they change to an unfair system (as perceived by fans) on a whim, they risk compromising this relationship, and they may sacrifice the benefits of said relationship (i.e. ecstatic-appearing fans who enhance the concert and the DVD). U2 broke their end of the (unstated) contract on June 6.

Several people here seem to think that after waiting all day, these people should have just been happy to get into the heart. OK, well, if you got there at Noon and expected the heart, and ended up at the back of the floor because people were let in ahead of you, wouldn't you feel offended? There's no difference, really. Shouldn't we all just be happy to be in the building? Or shouldn't we all just be happy to hear a live album? Are we? Everyone has different ideas of what constitutes a great U2 experience, and people get disappointed when it doesn't happen. And upset when it doesn't happen because of unfairness. That's reasonable human behavior.

 

[*Stormy*]

Originally posted by oliveu2cm:
the only reason i went to the rail on the ramp was b/c of those people bitching, not necessarily to get "closer."

but as it does with u2.. things work in mysterious ways. I loved that section so much that i gave up opportunities at other shows to be gauranteed a spot Directly in front of Bono. Instead I went further back in the heart where I could move and groove and see everyone in the band, etc. So no, being "closer" (by 40 feet or so) means nothing.

If you had been 40 feet back in Providence, you wouldn't have gotten to throw Larry the Harley sign, and see Bono pick it up and give it to him! You're lucky, you got more chances.

I can say for me the difference from being 3 people back from the tip to actually being AT the tip rail was a major difference- better view, no being squished, being able to breathe, getting to touch Bono, it made a difference to me.

 

[BEAL]

like the freaky doc said, those tickets didn't say row1 on them.

there were no rules ever established for the G/A. most assume that it means first come first serve...but assuming makes a ASS out of U & ME

, hahahahahahaha, come on, laugh!

I wouldnt want to see the same faces every night, no matter how cute they may be. You see things enough, they start to tire on you.

those bastards sat down and cried, good for them. if that's how they felt like handling it, fine. I don't agree with it, but it was their own decision. It brings a nice fat smile to my face that Bono bitched one of them out, well done B-man.

anyway, to cut a long post short(too late) I don't agree with what happened, but there were never any rules or guidelines to what could happen in the G/A line.

p.s. i'm the sexiest interferencer alive, doctorwho agrees!

 

[Angel]

OMIGOD... did BEAL just post?

 

[BEAL]

yep, and I posted again.

i've got 1 min left on my lunch break, it's the only time we can "surf" the net.

I know it seems like i've abandoned my fans/lovers, but i'm still here. I guess you could say I like to watch