Why do so many people hate the US?

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Hitman

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Seriously, why are we so hated? Why do these arab nations hate us so? Why do many European countries dislike us(France, for example, which never fully pledges support for us in times of need), when all the US does is help everyone else. In fact, one of the reasons this tragedgy occured is because we allocate so much of our time and money to other countries.... I don't know, I am simply rambling. But why do so many people hate the USA?
 
Cuz we have more things than they have.

? I dont know. This sounds like another fighting topic to me.

frown.gif


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Religious Nuts, Political Fanatics In The Stew
Happily Not Like Me And You
That's where I lost you....



Sicy's Website

[This message has been edited by SicilianGoddess (edited 09-13-2001).]
 
Not really meant as a fighting topic...

I am truly interested in the opposing viewpoint.

I would like to hear the reasons that so many people dislike America. I have never been the most patriotic person and I see problems with our government, but I am always puzzled by people hating American so much. Even the American government, for all its faults, does so much good around the world. Just something I've always wondered about obviously brought to the forefront of my mind in the last 57 hours.
 
Originally posted by Hitman:
Seriously, why are we so hated? Why do these arab nations hate us so? Why do many European countries dislike us(France, for example, which never fully pledges support for us in times of need), when all the US does is help everyone else. In fact, one of the reasons this tragedgy occured is because we allocate so much of our time and money to other countries.... I don't know, I am simply rambling. But why do so many people hate the USA?
Click to expand...

Well, officially all of the nations in the Middle East, except Iraq, have sent their sympathies.

Iraq hates us because Saddam Hussein is evil.

Most of the militant Muslim groups in the Middle East hate us because of our nearly-unilateral support of Israel's presence in Palestine and its military activities. Israel's claim to the land is scriptural; the land of Palestine is supposed to be the land that God promised the Jews. In AD 70, when the Romans controlled the area, Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews were dispersed, so Israel essentially wants to reclaim the land that it feels is rightly theirs.

Anybody who knows more about this stuff than I do, feel free to elaborate on or correct anything I've said.
 
That site is a load of complete shit.

I mean, I'm sure there are a few relevant points in all of that, but the majority I read are complete rubbish.

There are alot of questions the US has to ask itself though. I think the biggest one is are you seen as a world leader or a world bully?

But the main point still stands regardless, no country deserves this, and the world is reacting (in their different ways) accordingly alongside and behind the US.
Those fuckers picked the wrong fight.
 
Originally posted by TylerDurden:
That site is a load of complete shit.

I mean, I'm sure there are a few relevant points in all of that, but the majority I read are complete rubbish.
Click to expand...

I believe that site is an open bulletin board.
 
Come on, I don't think you should take that site seriously, it's just sarcastic. Although, there are some big truths there if you think about it.

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"I'm not afraid to die, I just don't want to be there when it happens", Woody Allen
 
I don't have quite the time to fully answer this question, but I think it's because the US is everywhere on the planet. US enterprises, corporation, military, mentality, culture bla bla bla is everywhere omnipresent.

While it's not a bad thing at the base (exchanges between countries), it's still a "knives with two cutting edges". While people can benefit from it, other people can have their situation changed by it.

It's a also a question of culture. While many cultures say "ok, the US invests money here", others don't want to hear anything about anyone, the big one being the US.

Like myself, people on this forum know my ideas. I'm not an extremist, but sometimes I think that some of the US interventions in the world should not be made, or other things. But I have nothing against the people or the culture... while some people, marginals and a minority quasi-invisible (but visible in their terrorist actions) are completely mad at it.

That's my guess. Could be true, could be untrue, but it's definitely not a question of "well, they don't like us cos they are bastards".


cheers and keep the faith

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La resignacion es un suicido permanente
 
I got an answer for you...some hate america because just now, the U.S. is experiencing what is like to be in a chaotic situation. Before, the U.S. never knew how it felt to be amongst chaos, riots, facing the fear of terrorrism, of not feeling safe. And often, their pain has been ignored. And becuase americans many think that immigrants come to this country because they want to "steal" their jobs or "get into welfare" and "take away benefits", when in fact some immigrants are so scared of the government that they don't even touch the door of a hospital unless they are dying... Immigrants can't take care of their health because they have no money, can't get out of lowpaying jobs, becuase they are discriminated...
Americans are not perfect, and they must try to understand that. Not all nations see the good side of the U.S. They only see the bad side.

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~Vero
"Well if you dream then dream out loud...Always"
 
This country gave me a chance to start all over again , opportunity to live like a normal human being , i'll always will be a TRUE american , no matter what others will say about It .
 
It bothers me that some people overseas hate America as a thing, an issue or and idea, but they turn that into hatred for US- all of us who live here, regardless of how we may feel about various situations personally. I also think their views of us are tainted by the media, movies, rumors, and propaganda in their own countries. I think a lot of the hatred of us is unfair and based on preconceived notions which may or may not be true, and even if the worst was true it gives them no right to want to kill innocent citizens they don't even know. I do think some people hate us because we have neat stuff and lots of money! Do they know not all of us do? Well, I don't hate people I know who have better stuff than me and I don't want to kill them and I know it's not their fault what I don't have. Lots of the hatred of America is prejudice, some is rage or resentment, some blame us for what is wrong or not right enough in the world because we are so big. I do believe most of it is unfounded, and the open and indiscriminate vicious, evil attacks on people at random is unacceptable and wrong. THINK whatever you want of us, but killing and terrorism goes too far.

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Just as you find me
always I will be
a little bit too free
with myself
-Bono and Edge

[This message has been edited by SamanthaPuff (edited 09-13-2001).]
 
What I've heard a few people suggest, here and in other places, is that America is hated because it is worthy of hate.

I refuse to believe that.

I think it's really quite simple: America is hated because, in less than two hundred years (from the American Revolution to the conclusion of World War II), it has become the greatest, most powerful nation in the world.

The question is, why? Why did this nation become so great?

Part of it is luck, or Providence. We were blessed with a bounty of resources and isolation from the turmoil in the "Old World".

But the Soviet Union had a bounty of resources, and it collapsed in 70 years.

Much of the reason we have become so great is the SAME reason so many millions of people -- from the first Pilgrims to my great-grandparents -- risked the journey to come to this New World.

The source of the terrorists' hatred is the same as the immigrants' hope: freedom.

I've said it before, and I was criticized for "PR BS", but it is true.

Freedom is powerful. It led ordinary men to risk everything to revolt and start this country. It led this nation through civil war and kept us intact when other nations would have crumbled. It helped stir us to war in the 1940's and civil rights reform in the 1960's. And it has drawn some of the smartest and most passionate people on Earth to this nation.

But the power of freedom cannot be contained by a dictator. It belongs to the people. And THAT is why every individual that tries to rule others through oppression and intimidation are so scared. If the American culture was able to reach the people in these oppressed nations, the oppression would vanish.

Freedom is also why we responded so extraordinarily in this crisis: so quickly, so selflessly, so compassionately, with no prompting from a higher authority.

And freedom is why we will prevail in our war against these thugs: we love freedom more than they hate us.

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- Achtung Bubba

September, streets capsizing,
Spilling over, down the drain

"You know, by God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're goin' up against. By God, I do. We're not just gonna shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy...bastards by the bushel."
from the film Patton
 
I think one of the main reasons America is hated is that, in addition to being the most powerful nation in the world, sometimes we feel the need to be the world's policeman and we stick our nose into fights that have roots going back centuries, fights that have been going on so long that the roots are sometimes not all that clear. And when we stick our nose into these things it causes lots of resentment on the parts of the people with whom we side against, and sometimes even on the side of the people we decide to back. Particularly with the Palestine/Israel situation, there is bitter, bitter resentment on part of the Palestinians because Israel is backed by the US and continues to oppress the Palestinian people.

We can't continue to act as this benevolent God to the world when it's not our place to do so and especially if it's not particularly appreciated by the parties involved.

I think a lot of resentment comes because we are so cushioned and removed from the harsh reality that people die by the hundreds in other nations and that US aided governments are perpetuating that fighting. We marvel at our technological advances and improvements in quality of life, while in other countries people fight over a scrap of bread and have to dodge gunfire just crossing the street. I think it's quite easy to see why a lot of people resent us. The resentment is often misguided, stereotypical and over-generalized, but it's there and there are real reasons behind it.

And unfortunately part of the resentment stems from corrupt and power-mongering governments who use propaganda to brainwash their people into believing we are some evil nation bent on destroying their lives.

Please note that I am not condoning these attacks at all - I think they are the acts of sick and evil extremists who don't deserve the air they breathe. However, these attacks happened for a reason beyond merely striking fear into America. The reasons may be extreme and misguided, but that doesn't mean we should ignore their roots.


[This message has been edited by Diemen (edited 09-13-2001).]
 
This is from another thread, and it just adds to the question of "WHY?"

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines, except Russia, fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets (in Canada), and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, America!

I have never been a patriot, and that is somewhat sad, as I look back on it now. America has given me every opportunity in life. The WORLD MUST RALLY BEHIND US! No more sitting on the fence. For once, WE need the full support of the rest of the world.
 
The USSR may have had a bounty of resources within their borders, but their infrastructure was crumbling. Kruschev once said, 'we will bury you' to us, but Communism fell and the USSR collapsed because of their own rejection of capitalism! Their factories and infrastructure were old and worn out, they could not manufacture like the western nations could, and their economy was a dead end. The people had no hope, no matter how hard they worked, they could never gain under the system so morale was low and hope ws scarce. Their system destroyed them, from within. They 'buried' themselves with their own idealism which proved to be wrong after all. Ronald Reagan called them the 'Evil Empire' and we all grew up thinking of them as the bogeyman. But in the end, they tumbled with a whimper, not a bang. They did it to themselves, and they didn't even realize it until it was too late.

When the two halves of Germany reunited, the East Germans were amazed at West Germany's shopping malls, well stocked grocery stores adn well lit towns. Remember in U2@TEOTW Bono commented on how dark the East was, and how they wanted to go there and see why after the wall fell. Remember, in Communist nations there were always shortages of food, and long lines. There were waiting lists for cars and more than one family often was forced to share one small apartment. It was because their system did not lend itself to industry, it opposed it! So there were few car factories, and the ones they had were scarce and lame(remember the trabants?) The farms and food factories were made to supply the nation but not to profit or to produce on a grand scale, so there was never enough. There were no independant builders and developers, it all belonged to the government. SO there were no housing developments, not that anyone could afford them! Remember how they used to buy blue jeans on the black market and how most western music and movies were banned? If you don't you should know this now. Communism failed, it shot itself in the foot because it was so against capitalism it could not support itself! America, no not just America but all capitalist countries are a success, because regardless of what anyone says or wants to believe, money talks and bullshit walks. No need to hate us (or kill us) because we're beautiful!!


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"Walk On, stay safe tonight"
 
if the United States sits in isolation -- it is ridiculed

if the United States becomes pro-active -- it is ridiculed

capitalism may be seen as a great evil by some, but it is the most efficient way of spreading freedom throughout world
 
They tend to be pissed-off about our blind support of the criminal actions of the Israeli government. I found this article for you. Perhaps it will help you understand why they feel the way they do.

If you are wondering, this was written by a Jew.

Come Watch Me Bleed: Israel's Manipulation of America's tax System
By Rasha El-Haggan, English Major at University of Maryland Baltimore County (Copyrighted 1999)

Engraved in stone on the top of the main entrance of the Internal Revenue Service headquarters are the words, "Taxes are what we pay for civilized society."

As American citizens, we pay out of every paycheck a certain percentage in tax that the government uses to provide us with the society we live in. Our clean streets, well maintained highways, numerous schools, public colleges, beautiful parks are all maintained with our tax money.

Taxes also give us the right to dictate what our government does, especially with our money. We like to see our government alleviate the problems of homelessness, increase financial aid to college students, and better maintain our public school programs. We would also hope to see America lead the world by helping more and more of its poor countries.

America has been active in the past in alleviating world famine in countries like Sudan and India. Our government has sponsored groups like the Red Cross and Save the Children which help needy countries. In short America has not only led the world as one of the greatest nations but it has also led the world in the cause of humanity.

America currently and under the halo of the past 10 administrations since President Truman?s time (1945-1953) has taken under its motherly wings the new state of Israel. The United States has led the world in both financial and military aid to Israel. We have helped them build homes, schools, and communities. We have also helped them build their first atomic and hydrogen bombs.

In fact our aid to Israel, a country the size of Hong Kong has amounted to $84.9 billion dollars since 1967, that is 15 million dollars a day, 628 thousand dollars an hour. Therefore, it is imperative to examine U.S. Foreign aid to the State of Israel, looking closely at the implication for the average U.S. taxpayer while briefly mentioning the American pro-Israeli lobby. Furthermore, this essay will examine how the Israeli government treats the Palestinian people, using the money we give it. Finally, we will conclude with whether the U.S. should continue its Israeli funding.

First of all, let us take a broad look at US foreign aid to Israel. According to the Population Reference Bureau of Washington D.C. in mid 1995 the Sub-Saharan countries with a population of 568 million received in foreign aid the amount of over 24 billion. This figure amounted to $43 per sub-Saharan African. Similarly, with a combined population of 486 million, all of the countries of Latin America and the Caribbean together had received $38,254,400,000. This amounted to $79 per person.

In comparison, our foreign aid to Israel's 5.8 million people during the same period was close to 11 thousand dollars. This meant that for every dollar we spent on African, we spent $250.65 on an Israeli, and for every ollar we spent on someone from the Western Hemisphere outside the United States, we spent $214 on an Israeli.

Furthermore, Mr. Richard Curtiss, a retired foreign service officer and executive editor of the Washington report on Middle Eastern Affairs, used reports compiled by Clyde Mark of the Congressional Research Service and other sources to tally all of the extra items for Israel buried in the budgets of the Pentagon in fiscal year 1993.

Washington Report news editor Shawn Twing did the same thing for fiscal years 1996 and 1997. He discovered that as of Oct. 31, 1997 Israel will have received $3.05 billion in U.S. foreign aid for fiscal year 1997 and $3.08 billion in foreign aid for fiscal year 1998. Adding the 1997 and 1998 totals to those of previous years since 1949 yields a total above $74 billion dollars in foreign aid grants and loans. Adding to this figure the 12.2 percent of the amount that Israel receives from other U.S budgets, the grand total becomes close to 83 billion dollars.

But that's not quite all. Unlike other aid recipients who receive their aid in monthly installments, Congress has voted in the special privilege for Israel to receive its annual aid during the first month of the fiscal year. This enables Israel to invest the money in U.S. Treasury notes. That means that the U.S., which has to borrow the money it gives to Israel, pays interest on the money it has granted to Israel in advance, while at the same time Israel collects interest on the money. That interest to Israel, which totals $1.650 billion, increases our grand total very close to 85 billion dollars. Thus we spend over $14 thousand dollars for each Israeli man, woman and child.

The next question to ask would be, "Does our U.S. Treasury receive anything in return?" It is a fact that some of the aid we send to Israel goes in the form of government loans. It is also true that Israel never defaulted on repayment of a U.S government loan. It would be equally accurate to say Israel has never been required to repay a U.S government loan.

Mr. Curtiss states in his article "True Lies About U.S. Aid to Israel" featured in the Washington Report: "Most U.S. loans to Israel are forgiven, and many were made with the explicit understanding that they would be forgiven before Israel was required to repay them." By disguising as loans what in fact were grants, cooperating members of Congress exempted Israel from the U.S. oversight that would have accompanied grants.

On other loans, Israel was expected to pay the interest and eventually to begin repaying the principal. But the Cranston Amendment, which has been attached by Congress to every foreign aid appropriation since 1983, provides that economic aid to Israel will never dip below the amount Israel is required to pay on its outstanding loans. For example, Israel is given $100 in 1994 and is asked to pay $120 back by 1995. In 1996 the loan becomes outstanding. The Cranston Amendment states that the aid we give to Israel in 1996 must include the $120 it has to pay us back. In short, whether U.S. aid is extended as grants or loans to Israel, it never returns to the Treasury.

Israel enjoys other privileges. While most countries receiving U.S. military aid funds are expected to use them to buy U.S. made arms, ammunition and training, Israel can spend part of these funds on weapons made by Israeli manufacturers. Also, when it spends its U.S. military aid money on U.S. products, Israel frequently requires the U.S. vendor to buy components or materials from Israeli manufacturers. Thus, though Israeli politicians say that their own manufacturers and exporters are making them progressively less dependent upon U.S. aid, in fact those Israeli manufacturers and exporters are heavily subsidized by U.S. aid.

Although it's beyond the parameters of this study, it's worth mentioning that Israel also receives foreign aid from some other countries. After the United States, the principal donor of both economic and military aid to Israel is Germany. By far the largest component of German aid has been in the form of restitution payments to victims of Nazi atrocities. However Germany has also provided extensive military assistance to Israel during and since the Gulf war and a variety of German educational and research grants go to Israeli institutions.

The total of German assistance in all of these categories to the Israeli government, Israeli individuals, and Israeli private institutions has exceeded some $31 billion or $5,345 per person, bringing the per person total of U.S. and German assistance combined to almost $20,000 per Israeli. Since the Israeli government spends very little public money on the more than 20 percent of Israeli citizens who are Muslim or Christian, the actual per person benefits received by Israel's Jewish citizens would be considerably higher.

As generous and as supportive as we would like to be, the $84.8 billion in grants, loans, and commodities that we gave to Israel since 1949 cost the U.S taxpayers an additional $49 million dollars in interest. Furthermore, we, the tax paying citizens, have incurred immense political and military costs for our consistent support of Israel during its half-century of disputes with the Palestinians and all of its Arab neighbors. In addition, there have been $20 billion in tax-exempt contributions made to Israel by American Jews in the nearly half-century since Israel was created. Even excluding all of these extra costs, America's $84.8 billion in aid to Israel from fiscal years 1949 through 1998, and the interest the U.S. paid to borrow this money, has cost U.S. taxpayers $134.8 billion, not adjusted for inflation. Or, put another way, the nearly $14,630 every one of 5.8 million Israelis received from the U.S. government by Oct. 31, 1997 has cost American taxpayers $23,240 per Israeli.

It is interesting to not the method in which Israel obtained $84.9 billion dollars worth of taxpayers money in foreign aid. Since the U.S government almost never gives away money, every interest group wanting funding from the U.S. government creates lobbying parties. Currently, the biggest lobbying group controlling U.S. Middle East policy making is the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).

AIPAC, with 150 employees and a $15 million budget (Curtiss, 18), is backed by the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations, an umbrella group comprising of 52 separate U.S. organizations whose primary concern is Israel. Some of those groups receive budgets much larger than AIPAC and several possess Washington Lobbyists of their own. Together they also formed some 126 political action committees which have played an active role in rewarding members of Congress who follow AIPAC?s wishes, and punishing those who do not.

As a consequence of AIPAC?s hard work, the Israeli lobby currently controls many major roles in our U.S. government. For instance, President Clinton?s top two White House foreign policy advisers, National Security director Samuel Berger and his deputy, John Steinberg have pro-Israeli ideals, not to mention the current State Department spokesman, James Rubin. Also, the assistant Secretary of state-designate for Near East Affairs, Martin Indyke, sympathizes with pro-Israeli interest groups. Interestingly, he has not only just completed an assignment as U.S. ambassador to Israel, but all of his previous employment before joining the Clinton administration has been in support of Israel.

That?s not all, both the State Department official in charge of U.S. participation in the peace process, Dennis Ross, and his deputy, Aaron David Miller, are Jewish political appointees. In the past, they have had grants from pro-Israel Foundations and, like Indyk, also have lived and studied in Israel on their own.

Furthermore, 10 percent of the members of Congress are pro-Israel and there have been several pro-Israel Cabinet members in both the first and second Clinton administrations. Finally, of nine members of the Supreme Court, two, both of them Clinton appointees, are pro-Israel as well as of the Jewish faith. Is it ironic then that President Clinton according to U.S. Jewish community papers got about 85% of the Jewish vote in 1992 and 88% of the Jewish vote in 1996? (Curtiss, 18).

The question is "What does being Jewish have to do with the Israeli Lobby?" Britain created and annexed Israel for the sake of those Jews who wanted a Jewish homeland. In fact, the State of Israel defines itself as a Jewish State. Although there is nothing wrong with a religious government and there is nothing wrong with American Jews wanting involvement with the Middle East Process, the fact that our Presidents appoint our government officials to suit another country is undemocratic and unethical. It is plain to see that the Israeli lobby carries much weight with our political officials, enough weight to attain $84.9 billion dollars for the Israeli government.

What does the Israeli government do with all this money?More importantly, how does this very generous & supportive aid that we as the United States of America give Israel affect our image to the world? To carefully assess these questions, one must first briefly mention the history of the State of Israel.

According to the Corporation for Public Broadcasting?s (CPB) video "The People and the Land," Palestine was the historical name for the Holy Land located north of the Suez Canal. From the beginning of time, it has had rich cultural associations with three of the world?s great religions: Islam, Judaism, and Christianity. In the early part of this century, Britain adopted a policy favoring the "establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people?" (Balfour Declaration). Upon the establishment of this goal, the British government created the Balfour Declaration in November 12, 1917 which distinctively outlines it was "clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine."

At this point in history, Britain had as much right to promise Palestine to the Jews as America to promise Australia to the Russians. In fact, in 1917, Palestine was under the rule of the Ottoman Empire. Regardless, Britain waged war on the Ottoman Empire and in 1918 helped some 550,000 Jews, mostly from Europe, to illegally immigrate to Palestine.

By 1948, the United States government under Harry Truman & the British Parliament were politically in charge of Palestine?s fate. The British completely ignored Palestinian concerns that they would become second class citizens in their own land. Also, in 1947 the heads of U.S diplomatic missions in the Middle East convened in Washington, D.C. to advise President Harry Truman against the division of Palestine, saying it would result in a bloodbath in the short run and major problems for the U.S. in the Middle East in the long run. They were right,as history has proven. But President Truman?s reply at the time was, "I am sorry gentlemen, but I have to answer to hundreds of thousands who are anxious for the success of Zionism. I do not have hundreds of thousands of Arabs among my constituents"(Curtiss, 76).

In 1948, leaders of the Jewish minority in Palestine declared independence for a Jewish State. They renamed Palestine as Israel. As a result, more than half a million Palestinians were chased out of their homes for being the wrong kind of human. They managed to hold onto the mountains and the Gaza Strip. In 1967, the Israeli army occupied the rest of Palestine, i.e. the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Since 1967, Israel, the single largest recipient of U.S foreign aid, has indiscriminately pushed the Palestinians out of their homes.

The question still remains to be "Should the United States government use our tax paying money to send foreign aid to Israel?" A closer look at the Israeli government?s practices will help answer that question.

First, the Israeli government rules the non-Jewish Palestinians under a military government. This automatically means that Palestinians with their large majority have no public representation in city hall. As one Israeli mother said, "the only Arab in city hall is the one serving the tea" (Hayes, "People and the Land").

Since the Israel governs Palestinians according to military standards, Palestinians are not allowed to vote for their leaders nor are they allowed to question the rules which govern them. This inevitably results in discriminatory actions. One way the Israeli military discriminates against Palestinians is through car license plates. Each time a car drives past military run check posts, government law requires Israeli soldiers to examine the car?s permit as well as the driver?s permit.

According to Brigadier General Fredi Zak of the Israeli Army, all cars, regardless of the owner?s religious background must be stopped. Unfortunately that is not the case. In fact, Palestinian drivers are Distinguished by special license plates that indicate the owner?s identity. For example, Jewish settlers receive yellow plates regardless of where they live. Palestinians living in the Gaza Strip receive white plates, while Palestinians living in the West Bank receive Blue plates. Color-coding helps Israeli soldiers determine who gets the Blue Plate Special. Cars with yellow plates never stop through the checkpoints.

In Tom Hayes video, "People and the Land," two American reporters drove a yellow plated car through a checkpoint. They continually drove non-stop through 5 checkpoints. They were finally stopped on their 6th checkpoint for approximately 45 seconds, enough for the Israeli soldier to verify their tourist permits. On their way back, they exchanged their yellow plates for blue ones. Not only did the soldiers stop them at every checkpoint (that?s 6 stops within an hour?s drive), but each soldier held them for an average of 5 minutes each, giving the total of 30 minutes.

Imagine if our U.S. government mandated that we be stopped for 30 minutes to every 1-hour drive because of the color of our skin, or because of the religion we practice. For us, this is intolerable. For Palestinians, this is an every day occurrence.

As one Palestinian mother said, "we do not mind the stops. We are used to them. We mind them stopping our ambulances who carry our injured children" (Hayes, "People and the Land"). When American reporters asked Brigadier General Fredi Zak of stopping ambulances at check points, he replied, "When we are talking about ambulances and emergency cases, they can go directly and the check posts are ordered that in emergency cases ambulances have free access." However, according to Human Rights Watch, in 1996 alone nine Palestinians died as a result of ambulances being detained at checkpoints.

One of these victims was pregnant Hanan Zayed. She was hemorrhaging heavily while inside a rushing ambulance. While soldiers detained the ambulance at a check post, Hanan gave birth to one of her baby twins. The baby died at the check post. An hour and a half later the soldiers allowed the ambulance carrying Hanan to pass through the check post. While stopping at the 2nd check post, Hanan gave birth to her 2nd child. The 2nd child, as a result of non-hospital care died immediately after reaching the hospital 2 hours later. Because of neglect and discrimination, Hanan lost 2 of her most precious treasures.

Being detained at checkpoints, with hemorrhaging mothers or dying sons is not the only way the Israeli government discriminates against Palestinians. There are far worse ways worth mentioning. According to Article 27 of the Geneva Accords (a peace process document), "persons (under control of an occupying power) shall at all times be humanely treated, and shall be protected against all acts of violence or threats there of?" Although the Geneva Accords was composed precisely for the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, Israel has violated its rules numerous times.

According to Lieutenant Colonel Fogel, an Israeli military spokesman, "We give strict instructions to our soldiers. We instruct them on how to behave, what situations to open fire. Their role is to use minimal force?Soldiers are not there to inflict judgements, they are there to bring a person to a court of law. We allow shooting in situations where soldier lives are being threatened. Children are special cases?"

If soldiers are only allowed to use force when their firearms if their lives are threatened, why are there 235 children ages 16 and under killed by security forces in 1996 alone? Why were there 240,000 Palestinians disabled due to bullet shots? Why are 58 percent of those disabled 18 years or younger? If soldiers are not to inflict punishment, why are there 46,000 kids under the age of 18 disabled by military soldiers? bullets?

An Israeli woman explains it best when she ays, "When 2 children are killed it?s an accident, when 200 are killed, it?s a policy." While LT Colonel Fogel says the military uses "minimal force," his superior, former prime minister of Israel Yitzak Rabin told the New York Times in 1988, that the Israeli army will "follow a policy of might, power, and beatings" (Hayes, "People and the Land").

This policy of "might, power, and beatings" set the stage for many years to come. Up to this day, the Israeli government has pushed some 5 million Palestinian people out of their homes and resettled in their place new Israeli citizens. Villages such as Nazareth, Al-Ramla, Safad, Tiberias, and Tulkaram have been demolished and their Palestinian occupants have been sent to live in the mountains.

Most of these villages stand today uninhabited. However, according to Israeli settlement planning, Israeli Jewish citizens will move in by the beginning of the new millennium. Israel barred the displaced Palestinians from returning to their homes, then declared their roperty abandoned and claimed it all. Many of the Palestinians wound up in refugee camps like the one at Fera?a and Tulkarem. Many of these camps are surrounded by graffiti filled walls with statements such as "It?s cheaper to kill them".

One of the most famous incidents of Israeli displacement of Palestinians is the Massacre of Deir Yassin. Early in the morning of Friday, April 9, 1948, commandos of the Irgun, an Israeli militia army, headed by Menachem Begin, Israeli Prime Minister, attacked Deir Yassin, a village with about 750 Palestinian residents. It was several weeks before the end of the British Mandate. The village lay outside of the area that the United Nations recommended be included in a future Jewish State. Deir Yassin had a peaceful reputation and was even said by a Jewish newspaper to have driven out some Arab militants. Unfortunately it was strategically located on high ground in the corridor between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

According to an Israeli settlement plan kept secret for years after the Massacre, the city was to be destroyed and the residents evacuated, making way for a small airfield that would supply the beleaguered Jewish residents of Jerusalem.

By noon of that Friday, over 100 people, half of them women and children, had been systematically murdered. Twenty-five male villagers were loaded into trucks, paraded through the Zakhron Yosef quarter in Jerusalem, and then taken to a stone quarry along the road between Givat Shaul and Deir Yassin and shot to death. The remaining residents were driven to Arab East Jerusalem.

That evening the Irgunists escorted a party of foreign correspondents to a house at Givat Shaul, a nearby Jewish settlement founded in 1906. Over tea and cookies rhey amplified the details of the operation and justified it, saying Deir Yassin had become a concentration point for Arabs, including Syrians and Iraqis, planning to attack the western suburbs of Jerusalem. Interestingly, they could not supply any proof to back up their claim.

The New York Times reported a final body count of 254 Palestinians on April 13, a day after they were finally buried. The Irgunist leaders admitted that the massacre "disgraced the cause of Jewish fighters and dishonored Jewish arms and the Jewish flag." They played down the fact that their militia had reinforced the terrorists' attack. They also played down the fact that, in Begin's words, "Deir Yassin was captured with the knowledge of the Haganah, another of Israel?s more powerful militia groups, and with the approval of its commander" as a part of its "plan for establishing an airfield."

Of about 144 houses, 100 were dynamited. The village?s cemetery was later bulldozed and, like hundreds of other Palestinian villages to follow, Deir Yassin was wiped off the map. By September, Orthodox Jewish immigrants from Poland, Rumania, and Slovakia were settled there over the objections of Martin Buber, Cecil Roth, and other Jewish leaders, who believed that the site of the massacre should be left uninhabited. The center of the village was renamed Givat Shaul Bet. As Jerusalem expanded, the land of Deir Yassin became part of the city and is now known simply as the area between Givat Shaul and the settlement of Har Nof on the western slopes of the mountain.

The massacre of Palestinians at Deir Yassin is one of the most significant events in 20th-century Palestinian and Israeli history. That same year, of 1948, saw the expulsion of over 700,000 Palestinian inhabitants, making room for survivors of the Holocaust and other Jews from the rest of the world. Since then, over 400 Arab villages and cities were wiped off the map, replaced by Israeli settlements. Interestingly and even ironically, President Harry Truman recognized the State of Israel 11 minutes after it declared its autonomy, which was exactly 1 month after the Massacre of Deir Yassin.

There are many more violations in which Israel has taken an active role. Israel has violated 25 U.N regulations. It has dismissed 2 U.N resolutions. It practices collective punishment, which is illegal according to the UN. It has killed, tortured, and raped many children. It has violated hundreds of Human Rights laws and regulations.

Even the U.N Human Rights commission has "declared that Israel?s grave breeches of the Geneva convention relative to the protection of civilian persons?are war crimes and an affront against humanity"(Hayes, "People and the Land").

Why then are we still sending aid to Israel? There have been many examples through out history of countries that violate U.N resolutions and as a result the U.S. has ceased funding.

For example, when Iran was accused of terrorist actions, the U.S. stopped its funding. When Sudan was accused of discrimination, the U.S stopped its funding. Even recently, when Iraq was accused of building weapons of mass destruction, the U.S. not only stopped its earlier funding, but also imposed sanctions against the Iraqi people. Why then is the U.S. not taking action against Israel?s atrocious actions?

Do we, the taxpayers, want our money to fund such atrocities? I think not. To this date, there have been cuts in America?s food stamp programs totaling $1.2 billion dollars. Also, Israel receives 4 times as much money as America spends on research to cure AIDS, killer of more Americans than the Vietnam War. Even more surprising, what Israel receives in 8 months exceeds all of the funding for the National Endowment for the Arts since it was created in 1966. Even our Public Broadcasting Funding saw cuts of $10 million dollars, equal to 16 hours of aid to Israel.

Eighty-four point nine billion dollars seems to this writer to be a huge amount of money to waste. Our own country is in dire need of even a fraction of that money.

We could use it to better our school programs, to provide more computers and technology aid to our public school systems. We can use this money to virtually eliminate American poverty, thereby eliminating welfare. We can use this money to clean up our city streets, provide better orphanages, and decrease our drug problem. We can use 84.9 billion dollars to give homes to our homeless citizens, to give scholarship aid to those wanting to go to college but knowing they can?t afford it.

We can use this money to better our AIDS and Cancer research. Most importantly, 84.9 billion dollars can result in major tax reductions for the entire United States of America. Eighty four point nine billion dollars should be spent on U.S. citizens living in the U.S. instead of on a country that violates the essence of humanity.

As one Palestinian journalists says, "I?m mainly talking to Americans who are paying those taxes and those taxes are sent as bullets, as tear gas bombs to shoot, to kill our children. I ask them, what have we as Palestinians committed as a crime against you? For God?s sake, it?s time to start looking on both sides of the coin" (Hayes, "People and the Land). As Americans, we must take a stand. We can?t just sit at home and feel bad about what?s happening in the world. We have to act upon it. Martin Luther King JR said, "Injustice anywhere is a threat to Justice everywhere." If we don?t act now, we might be next. We must hear, if not listen, to Palestinian voices who cry everyday for peace. "I only want to smell peace," says a Palestinian man. "I don?t care to touch it. I daren?t push my luck. I only wish to smell it" (Hayes, "People and the Land"). "Am I less than you are?" asks another Palestinian elderly man. "I have ears, you have ears. I have a head. You have a head. I have a tongue. You have a tongue. I have hands. You have hands. As God created you, He created Me. Why then are you oppressing me?" (Hayes, "People
and the Land").

One mother summarizes it best when she says, "Two fingers up do not stop a bullet and make everything right. Righteous indignation does you no good if you don?t see the light. You ask lots of questions, but Don?t hear our answers about what we need. The only thing left is for me to invite you to come watch me bleed."

Works Cited

Curtiss, Richard. "Netanyahu Visit Embarrasses Even Israel?s Most Ardent Supporters." Washington Report On Middle East Affairs. March 1998.

Curtiss, Richard. "True Lies About U.S. Aid to Israel." Washington Report on Middle East Affairs. December, 1997.

Curtiss, Richard. "U.S Muslims May Put Themselves on American Political Map in 1998." Washington Report On
Middle East Affairs. April 1998.

Deir Yassin Remembered: Information Center. 13 April, 1999. Dier Yassin Orginisation

Hayes, Tom. "People and the Land." Produced by Corporation for Public Broadcasting. 1997.

Israel-Palestine Liberation Organization Agreement: 993.
13 April, 1999.
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[This message has been edited by DoctorGonzo (edited 09-13-2001).]
 
Capitalism makes the world go 'round. It makes things run. It may not be the perfect system, but so far it's the only one that really works. No bombing or intimidation is going to stop it. The almighty dollar will prevail.

I am tired of America being the scapegoat who gets the blame for everything. Look at those celebrating kids on the news. They are taught to hate us and blame us at a very young age and they will grow up brainwashed against us and will be the next terrorists unless we put a stop to it now, if we can.

------------------
I B 4 U2!
 
Doctor Gonzo's diatribe reminded me of something else I wanted to say, that no matter how someone feels about our gov't or its actions it does not justify the random and violent murder of innocent people to satisfy their own hatred.

[This message has been edited by Ratch (edited 09-13-2001).]
 
Originally posted by Hitman:
This is from another thread, and it just adds to the question of "WHY?"

Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.

When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.

The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.

I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines, except Russia, fly American Planes?

Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again.

You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets (in Canada), and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke.

I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.

Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of those."

Stand proud, America!

I have never been a patriot, and that is somewhat sad, as I look back on it now. America has given me every opportunity in life. The WORLD MUST RALLY BEHIND US! No more sitting on the fence. For once, WE need the full support of the rest of the world.
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Even better said,Hitman and Kitten-Db9

------------------
"..it's about breaking barriers, transcending boundries and conquering great divides"-Bono 1987

---------
An open letter to Bono from myself www.arizonaautoweb.com/bono/
 
Part II of my post

"We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country .... expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly."
-- Theodore Herzl (from Rafael Patai, Ed. The Complete Diaries of Theodore Herzl, Vol I)
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"... it is the duty of the [Israeli] leadership to explain to the public a number of truths. One truth is that there is no Zionism, no settlement, and no Jewish state without evacuating Arabs, and without expropriating lands and their fencing off."
-- Yesha'ayahu Ben-Porat, (Yedi'ot Aharonot 07/14/1972) responding to public controversy regarding the Israeli evictions of Palestinians in Rafah, Gaza, in 1972. (Cited in Nur Masalha's "A Land Without A People" 1997, p.98)
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"I don't sign orders to destroy the houses of Jews, only of Arabs,"
-- Haim Miller, deputy mayor of Jerusalem and acting mayor in Olmert's absence, quoted in Yediot Aharonot, Feb. 7, 1998.
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The Christian population of (the ever expanding) Jerusalem was 30,000 in 1948; today it is 2000, due to the systematic ethnic cleansing of Palestinians from that and other areas around Israel. (Paul Findley's Deliberate Deceptions, 1996) Unlike Jews, Arabs are always denied a permission to build and expand.
92% of the land in Israel falls under the Administration of the Jewish National Fund, where the land can not be sold (or leased or re-sold) to non-Jews. Result: the 18% Israeli-Arabs own only 4% of the land (even though before the mass expropiations & expulsions of 1948 Arabs mabe up about 70% of the population & owned 90% of the land).

If, say, a Peruvian converts to Judaism and emigrates to Israel, he immediately has more rights than Israeli-Arabs who have lived in the land for many centuries.

"Israel was among the countries cited for discrimination in the U.S. State Department's first annual assessment of religious persecution around the world..."
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"... we have no solution, that you shall continue to live like dogs, and whoever wants to can leave -- and we will see where this process leads? In five years we may have 200,000 less people -- and that is a matter of enorous importance."
-- Moshe Dayan encouraging the transfer of Gaza strip refugees to Jordan (from Noam Chomsky's Deterring Democracy, 1992, p.434, quoted in Nur Masalha's A Land Without A People, 1997 p.92).
Click to expand...

"In strategic terms, the settlements (in Judea, Samaria, and Gaza) are of no importance." What makes them important, he added, was that "they constitute an obstacle, an unsurmountable obstacle to the establishment of an independent Arab State west of the river Jordan."
--Binyamin Begin, (son of the late Menahem Begin and a prominent voice in the Likud party writing in 1991, Quoted on page 159 of Findley's Deliberate Deceptions)
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Doctor Gonzo's diatribe reminded me of something else I wanted to say, that no matter how someone feels about our gov't or its actions it does not justify the random and violent murder of innocent people to satisfy their own hatred.
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As I have said about 50,000 times since the attacks.

I'm simply trying to answer the question posed by the origional poster. Nothing more.

I believe I have made it explicitly clear that I find the attacks to be horrible and unjustifiable.

However, a question was asked, and I've endevored to answer it to the best of my ability.
 
Hello,

I'm not a US citizen, I'm Dutch. I'm also devastated with what has happened last Tuesday, still in shock.
But to answer the question in this thread, some countries have some experiences which makes them think less than positive about the USA. First, let me make clear I do not agree with the showing of sentiments as has happened in some countries. However, the US government has had at times a foreign policy that was inconsistent and aroused negative feelings.

A problem is that it is so difficult to accurately describe it (at least for me) as so much has happened in history that it is nearly impossible to show all the linkages. I will try to confine it to the situation in the Middle East.
Doctor Gonzo has already shown a lot in the excellent article he quoted. Suddenly, in 1948, a new state was created in the Middle East under heavy pressure of the US. The new citizens of this country had a different religion, different from every neighbour. Moreover, the original people of that territory were/are suppressed. Only with much aid of the Western world, but principally the USA, Israel could survive. This increased the resentment against the USA.
Furthermore, the USA bought/buys oil from some countries in that region and has therefore also in another way a presence in that region. In their own interest they try to hamper every movement of their 'islamic enemy'. If there is a islamic movement in a country trying to gain the power (either by force or in a democratic way) the USA supports the seculiar counter-movement. If there is a regional conflict between two countries and one of those countries is openly islamic, the USA will support the other country. It does this without regarding the democratic level of said country. So in the war between Iraq and Iran, the USA supported Saddam Houssein in Iraq by sending weapons. And the Saddam Houssein of 20 years ago was no different than the Saddam Houssein of now. He ruled in a totalitarian regime, suppressed his own people and attacked the minorities in his country. He was, however, less islamic than Khomeini. Of course, this caused bad blood to the Iranians, as the USA was supporting their enemy.
Ten years ago, the USA attacked Iraq as they suddenly became a threat to their oil supply. So the government, and the people, who first had the support of the USA were now being attacked by the USA. Yes, the governments in those regions are heavily manipulating the information they feed to their citizens, but they have to have causes to start manipulating.

Erm, this really is a very difficult subject to explain well. I even don't know if I explained everything correctly. I only hope you can see that it is something that has been going on for a long time.

Marty

------------------
People criticize me but I know it's not the end
I try to kick the truth, not just to make friends

Spearhead - People In Tha Middle
 
America is not a God that gives everything to the world with no thanks, nor an evil scourge that bullys everyone else. It is somewhere in between. Ultimately Americas dealings with the outside world come down to the primary objective of any nations dealings with those outside its borders: that of self interest.

It was in America's interest to build a strong europe after the war, to enhance the global economy, to assist in developing countries to become more wealthy. And it still is.

A large part of Americas future lies beyond its borders, so I just hope that it doesn't put the shutters up.

The reason some other nations resent "America" at times is purely because it is a global monolith and easy target.

People feel things like english is becoming spoken everywhere while indigenous languages are dying, American multi nationals come in at the expense of local organisations, and AMerican foreign policy does not always please the locals (eg cuba, vietnam, israel).
These things combine in a global sense to a fear of "americanisation".

Very few countries or places actually "hate" the US. Maybe iraq and afghanistan - I doubt even iran or cuba "hate" america today they just want to be dealt a fairer hand. The majority of the western world have a fleeting admiration for america (although they may not admit it).

And for as many people that hate america, there are far more who love you.
Think of your Nato allies. Ireland is completely closed today for a National Day of Mourning. Australia went and supported you in Vietnam even though it was propbably a bad idea.

------------------
In the stillness of the evening
When the sun has had its day
I heard your voice whispering...
 
Here's some reasons:

-in the 80's, US supported Iraq in their war against iran. when iran's uncooperative yet democratic leader was replaced by a dictator (the Shah) who bends to the US's will, the US turns against Iraq, which now represents the greater threat.

-US help topple the leader of Chile, halting the spread of democracy and putting Pinochet into power to serve the US's interest, but who is now detained for crimes against humanity.

-US originally supported Noriega, but when Panama refuses to allow US to use their territory as a base of US attack on Nicaragua, US put Noreiga out of business

-US tried to overthrow Fidel Castro, simply because he believed Cuban resources should be for Cubans (one of the events leading to Bay of Pigs was the U2 spy plane being shot down in Russia )

-1975, US encouraged the indonesian government to bloodily invade East Timor,a communist government, with US supplied weapons.

-Kissinger received a Nobel Peace Prize for his "diplomacy" in Indochina. 600,000 cambodians died as a result of the VIETNAM war. why? because communism had to be exterminated.

-US backed the Israeli invasion of Lebanon. US continues to give grants to Israel, and support Israel militarily.

- the list goes on.

to top it off, capitalism has brought about unequal distribution of wealth to developing countries, causing heightened levels of poverty and crime. Capitalism in its current form is truly a monster. it's what keeps America allied to certain countries and groups, and uninterested or hostile towards others. That very fact has caused resentment in many types of people, not just Islamic fundamentalists. increasingly, it is the economy that influences our politics, instead of vice versa, and I fear that policy will lead to an enduring hate for America.

Please note: I don't support the action that killed thousands in New York, i just want to shed some light on the question that was asked by the original post.
 
Of course, the Communists weren't exactly trying to live peacably on their own.

Or need I remind you of Kruschev's famous line:

"We will bury you."

Our acts may have been questionable, but many were done in the defense of freedom and in the repelling of the Communism of the Soviet Union -- what Reagan acurately named the "Evil Empire."

And I strongly reject your notion that capitalism is a "monster" that has lead to an "unequal distribution of wealth".

First of all, wealth wasn't ever distributed. It was created and earned.

Beyond that, while the industrialized world surely needs to help with the relief of debt, famine, and AIDS, many of the developing countries are stuck under the boot of their dictators and warlords.

Seriously, economics lead down only two paths: Communism, and the condition in which the state controls the market; and capitalism, in which the demands and resources of the supplier and consumer control the amount of supply and demand.

Communism did manage to level the playing field by guaranteeing everyone abject poverty -- everyone but the highest party members.

But capitalism manages to meet the most demands of the most people, creating an efficient, responsive market that satisfies more needs than any other system.

I contend that it's not a presence of capitalism that's hurting these countries, but an ABSENCE. The message of free men and free markets need to circumvent the thug leaders of the developing world and hit the citizens where they are.

------------------
- Achtung Bubba

September, streets capsizing,
Spilling over, down the drain

"You know, by God, I actually pity those poor bastards we're goin' up against. By God, I do. We're not just gonna shoot the bastards, we're going to cut out their living guts and use them to grease the treads of our tanks. We're going to murder those lousy...bastards by the bushel."
from the film Patton
 
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