Why are we so afraid to criticize?

[Bonochick]

It's not that I'm afraid to criticize. I just haven't found anything that, in my eyes, needs to be criticized.

If that day comes though...I'll speak my mind.

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"Hallelujah, Heaven's white rose,
The doors you open...I just can't close..."

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Perhaps the better question is..."why do people feel it is their job to be U2's business manager?" I always thought that was left to Paul McG. He's been doing ok without our help for 20-some years.

 

[spinninghead77]

Originally posted by Bonochick:
It's not that I'm afraid to criticize. I just haven't found anything that, in my eyes, needs to be criticized.

I agree 100% Bonochick!!

I know that I get really bothered sometime's when I hear people putting down U2 on the forum. That is because sometime's I wonder why people would bother coming here if they have so many negative feelings towards the band. I am used to it 'in the real world', I just don't expect to hear it when I am surrounded by U2 fans.

 

[gherman]

God I realy didn't mean to put the band down. I just though that people would be more open and not take it so seriously. I guess next time I post something I better chose my words better. Just by that one post I've got people telling me I'm an asshole, I'm not a "real" U2 fan, and I even resorted to retaliation just so I don't go home feeling like I didn't defend myself.

 

[Bonochick]

gherman~

I had no problem with your initial post because I felt you stated your opinion without rippin' into people. But that "time of the month" comment was uncalled for in what you call your "retaliation".

------------------
"Hallelujah, Heaven's white rose,
The doors you open...I just can't close..."

 

[sulawesigirl4]

umm, I don't think it was your initial post that was so upsetting. If you spend much time here, I think you will find that people are able to talk about the band somewhat objectively (although since we're all fans, we are obviously pulling for them...that goes without saying.) But I fail to see why there is this need for us to debate over how they should be running their careers. Is it possible that since we are fans, WE notice how much they are on television..while to the average person at home, it isn't a massive "U2 on the airwaves" overdose?

Finally, gherman, if you're unhappy with people being upset with you, you might refrain from resorting to blatant sexism in your responses. I'm really sorry, but that 'time of month' comment was completely out of line and makes it quite hard for one to put much stock or credibility in your replies.

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

U2 stayed in States until clock was ringing ( law about taxes for foreigners/artists who , time limit ) they did everything , they can do , in States , for money , cause it was economically good for them , no chance for Australia with millions of fans , cause " dollar is no good there " and all those " warm words during Elvation Tour " ...

 

[Diemen]

What the hell Ivan? Could you try using regular sentences for a change?

And also, you're probably the most pessimistic U2 fan I've heard from (in regards to your views on U2). Do you do this kinda stuff just to stir trouble, or do you honestly believe that U2 were in the US for money and no other reason?

 

[Ava Adore]

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4:
But I fail to see why there is this need for us to debate over how they should be running their careers. Is it possible that since we are fans, WE notice how much they are on television..while to the average person at home, it isn't a massive "U2 on the airwaves" overdose?

That was the kind of answers I was looking for Sula. Not like your first response accusing myself I imagine of being their 'business' manager. Exactly my point with this thread, why must U2 fans jump on the defensive?
I don't see why we can't debate things. I see no harm in it. Do you accept all things in life as just is, without any debate at all?
I just don't see why having a 'discussion' (hence opposing opinions) is so foreign here. It seems all we can talk about is what our 'Top 5 Favourite...' is. As long as we don't rock the boat.
I am sorry, but I don't live in that kind of world, and no, I am not trying to be their business manager. It's just a discussion.

 

[sulawesigirl4]

Originally posted by Ava Adore:
That was the kind of answers I was looking for Sula. Not like your first response accusing myself I imagine of being their 'business' manager. Exactly my point with this thread, why must U2 fans jump on the defensive?
I don't see why we can't debate things. I see no harm in it. Do you accept all things in life as just is, without any debate at all?
I just don't see why having a 'discussion' (hence opposing opinions) is so foreign here. It seems all we can talk about is what our 'Top 5 Favourite...' is. As long as we don't rock the boat.
I am sorry, but I don't live in that kind of world, and no, I am not trying to be their business manager. It's just a discussion.

Actually, I wasn't accusing you of anything. lol. I was saying that it seems a lot of times that we as fans go around so terribly worried about the band's public image..."should they have played the Superbowl?" "should Bono have met X public leader?" etc. And when it comes down to it, those are the kinds of decisions that are probably being handled by their manager and while we can debate them till the cows come home, we really don't know what's happening behind the scenes, nor can we influence the outcome in any way.

I'm sorry if you read into my statement or interpretted it as some sort of attack against you. You did ask for discussion. That's all I was trying to give you. I have no problem with debate and indeed, I take many opportunities to engage in it.

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

Originally posted by Diemen:
What the hell Ivan? Could you try using regular sentences for a change?

And also, you're probably the most pessimistic U2 fan I've heard from (in regards to your views on U2). Do you do this kinda stuff just to stir trouble, or do you honestly believe that U2 were in the US for money and no other reason?

WE all sell each other , there were some other reasons : US market is the biggest and the richest one , u.s. people are religious and , people in north america 're always goin' by crowd into something , 'take it to the " Church + 'ONE' political hall + plus some tunes about something .


Ha HA Ha hA

 

[Ava Adore]

Thx sula. I misunderstood you and glad to have, because I have always respected your opinions. You have a good point, definately --> us questioning should they do this? or should they do that?
To back up further what I said at the beginning... I suppose a part of me feels they should end their ATYCLB run after this summer's tour, is more out of fear that if they give too much now for too long, they won't come back for years. I don't want to see them get burnt out, but as you said- Paul M, has been doing a good job for the past 20yrs. How many bands can say they have stuck with the same manager eh? Impressive run. He must be doing something right.

I guess I just get bored with all the silliness here sometimes and crave a little more intelligent conversation, and whether it comes in the form of a debate, we should be able to discuss matters in a calm and not always defensive fashion. Just seems hard to among this community. I prefer the lemonadestand these days... though I got dumped because of something I said in there!

lmao! I am better off.

However... I will break this 'non-defensive' U2 code the minute someone attempts to call U2 a sellout again, because that is just the stupidest crap I have ever heard. lol

 

[IvanClaytonJnr]

I'm just sick of 200U2 right now , time to go out for awhile ..........

 

[joyfulgirl]

I've no problem criticizing the band, and occasionally find reason to do just that. But in terms of the current argument, like I said in the other thread, I just think Bono knows what he's doing and understands the risks, and even though I might occasionally get tired of his soundbytes, that is because I'm an obsessed fan who's heard them a million times, but some people are hearing them for the first time everyday. I admire his resolve to stay with the causes he believes in.

But I agree with you that we shouldn't be afraid to criticize them. Bono has said himself that he doesn't want a buncha yes-men around him and he would admire his fans for thinking independently, I'm sure.

 

[babble]

Originally posted by Ava Adore:

I don't see why we can't debate things. I see no harm in it. Do you accept all things in life as just is, without any debate at all?
I just don't see why having a 'discussion' (hence opposing opinions) is so foreign here. It seems all we can talk about is what our 'Top 5 Favourite...' is. As long as we don't rock the boat.
B]

Just because a U2 fan voices an opinion agreeing with what U2 or Bono is doing should they be automatically discredited as just a rabid, thoughtless fan that accepts and defends whatever U2 does? I certainly do not always agree with Bono and U2, but in the other thread I did happen to support what Bono is doing.



[This message has been edited by babble (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[sulawesigirl4]

yeah, Ava I hear ya on the search for interesting topics lately.

I think the lull in new news and the wait for a new album is making us all a little testy these days or something.

 

[Ava Adore]

Originally posted by babble:
Just because a U2 fan voices an opinion agreeing with what U2 or Bono is doing should they be automatically discredited as just a rabid, thoughtless fan that accepts and defends whatever U2 does?

That's not what I said at all. As a matter of fact, I agree with U2 more than I disagree, my point was simply what you just validated--> that U2 fans jump to the defensive way too fast. I am not discrediting anyone. I just don't see why we have to discredit every single person who occasionally has an opposing view. That's all.

 

[Salome]

at this forum I have had people telling me I would be happy with anything U2 throws at me

I am also one of the few around here who do not like POP that much and have been vocal about that

I don't have a problem critizing U2 when I don't agree with them - I think them not touring Australia or showing any plans to do this soon is a real blemish on the great year the band had - but like others have said, I don't think they do that much wrong in the first place

mmmm,
U2 !!!!

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Salome
Shake it, shake it, shake it

 

[U2girl]

Ava, there's really very little to be critisized when it comes to U2. (ticket prices and the amount of U2 appearing in US IMO) Musically, i don't like every single thing they record, but then again, it's a matter of taste.

But in spite of that, they are still my fave band and i love their music (and that's what counts), i think it's great that Bono does so much for charity, and i think it's nice of him to use "speeches" on tour - after all rock and social issues/politics go hand in hand well. (60's and Vietnam/protest songs, for example)

Unfortunately, most fans take it too personally and see it as an attack or some sort of betrayal on the band somehow anytime their actions are questioned.

Also, a lot of people seem to think that what Bono does on his own is inevitably connected with U2, or that these two things are in any corelation whatsoever.
It is ok to like U2 and dissaprove what Bono's saying, but IMO it's wrong to bash U2 because of what Bono's doing on his own for charity.

It's not about being perfect - it's your decision what you think about U2's (or Bono's) work - you need to figure it out for yourself.

ps: I think the hard part for U2 is yet to follow, as they have the VERY hard task of topping ATYCLB / Elevaion. It's easier to get to the top than it is to keep it up...


[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[Ava Adore]

I wasn't talking about Bono U2girl, I was talking about the band as a whole and criticism against them. I support Bono in his efforts and separate what he does outside of the band, from the band.
You are confusing this with the other thread.

 

[U2girl]

Originally posted by Ava Adore:
I wasn't talking about Bono U2girl, I was talking about the band as a whole and criticism against them. I support Bono in his efforts and separate what he does outside of the band, from the band.
You are confusing this with the other thread.

I know you weren't, i'm just saying a lot of U2's critisism in the media comes due to Bono's "outside" work, which IMO is wrong.

I guess i'm partially referring to that other thread too. I'm saying i may not like everything U2 decides to do (actually i don't - see the start of my previous reply), but i do like what Bono's trying to do. Those things aren't excluding each other, that's all.

OK, let me reply to the "super bowl" media bash you mentioned earlier. I understand how it may seem that U2 is selling out, by trying to appeal to everyone, and presenting themselves so much publicly, but ...
U2 has always been about ambition IMO, and being a good band doesn't mean it's impossible (or wrong) to be popular too.

I think it's pretty impressive to have a fanbase reaching from, i dunno, 14, 13 year olds discovering music and, say, 40-and some-year olds who have been there from the early years. It's even more impressive to be able to draw new generations of fans with each album, or being able to compete (and beat) much younger bands (tour earnings, longevity of career).
And may i say Bono on stage is giving a lot more energy and emotion singers half his age do.




[This message has been edited by U2girl (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[NicaMom]

U2 had given me so many great things thru their music, they make me feel good, otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time and energy being a fan.
That's why I prefer to concentrate on the good things and not the negative stuff, if there's any.

[This message has been edited by NicaMom (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[Matthew_Page2000]

If U2 go away for a couple of years by the time they record a new album and go on tour again they'll be 45 years old and they'll get raked over the coals for being "old farts." It's not fair but that's the ageist industry that Rock 'n Roll is.
U2 had better enjoy this run because it's really doubtful that the young people of the world will ever consider them a vital band again.

MAP

 

[z edge]

Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
If U2 go away for a couple of years by the time they record a new album and go on tour again they'll be 45 years old and they'll get raked over the coals for being "old farts." It's not fair but that's the ageist industry that Rock 'n Roll is.
U2 had better enjoy this run because it's really doubtful that the young people of the world will ever consider them a vital band again.

MAP

EXACTLY

They are at the point in their career that they can't just go away and take long breaks between album/tours.

They should take advantage of their opportunity and make one hell of a kick ass album that blows everything else away.

Lets enjoy them while we can, we are so lucky to have them where they are now.

 

[Bonovation]

I think whats been pissing me off the most is that that the majority of negative articles I've read over the last couple of weeks have been completely devoid of fact or any evidence of research.

The highlight of all the articles for me was the one from an Oz report who, whilst having a go about them having nick-names, said "he's 'Edge', not even 'The Edge'....".

Now it doesn't take a lifelong U2 fan or a lot of research to know that "Edge" is actually "The Edge" does it?

its these mindless, factually incorrect articles I sometimes get defensive about. Most of the time, they make amuse, cos its quite obvious the author hasn't got a clue.

With regards to Bono & drop the debt, there have been numerous discussions about who's using who. Personnally, I have no doubt that Bono knows what the politicians are up to and I think the biggest sacrifice he makes for the causes he promotes is that he allows himself to be used.

Is it time for Bono to take a break?, I dunno, ask the dying millions in Africa if the person who's being seen to being doing the most for them at the moment should take a break cos he's in the press a bit too much and, he is after all, only a rock star.



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Being one can be great but respecting differences can be greater. - Bono in Belfast, August 26, 1997

 

[bullet the blue sky]

I'd personally be glad if America has had too much of U2 because I want them over here in Europe and elsewhere.

 

[wildhoney22]

I think they're criticized because they've proven themselves yet again as artists, and now the critics are trying to find an excuse to shoot holes in their art.

The critics have seen their critical and commercial stumbles, in "Rattle and Hum" and "Pop" and a lot of can be alluded to overexposure.... and I can admit that although as a fan I don't feel this way, they are receiving overexposure in America. They are taking more gigs than I have ever seen before, taking most opportunities they can. People think that maybe they are desperate or they are trying to keep themselves in the limelight, trying to prove themselves again and again when they don't have to. They have taken back the "Best Rock Band" title and they have 2 choices: to back down and attempt to come back again, or to continue on this course as long as they can.

But the critics can't necessarily say that the Elevation era must come to an end as they have been... it's only lasted from about fall 2000 up until now, less than a year and a half, when they have had much longer ones, like ZooTV and the Joshua Tree/R&H.

Forgive me if this does not fit completely together... just a bunch of random thoughts and comments on the topic.

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~*~?~*~ Katie ~*~?~*~
"Now America looks smart and, dare I say it, sexy again." ~ Bono, 2000

She is the dreamer
She's imagination

 

[barlowdog]

I will always criticize the Hollywood remix of Desire. That was awful.

 

[UnforgettableLemon]

Four legs good... two legs bad...
Four legs good... two legs bad...
Four legs good....two legs better..

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"Shame on you! Ugly baby judges you!"

 

[brettig]

All i know is that Creed are playing here in March...cant be too expensive for them.