Why are we so afraid to criticize?

[Ava Adore]

Forgive me if I have started a new thread when this is quite honestly an offshoot of someone else's; however, it got me thinking about something... and thought it should have it's own forum for discussion-
Why are we so afraid to criticize U2?

Now think about it. Don't just write down the first thing that comes to mind, because it is so much more than simply being a fan. U2 fans really get into heated discussions about this or that, and we are so quick to jump on the defensive. I am guilty of it myself, and nearly stormed out of a class last week when everyone began to turn our lecture into a 'U2 sold out' argument regarding their performance at the Super Bowl. I was furious. How dare they, I thought.
But... the thing is... and maybe I am thinking too much because I of what I am studying... but, when is too much too much? U2 have been in the public eye for a year and a half now with at least another year rumoured to be ahead. The minute someone criticizes them and says, it's time 'disappear' for awhile, we get all pissed off and can't deal. 'U2 should do what they want, they shouldn't care what other people think' etc... That's where, IMO, we are wrong. This has nothing to do with Jubilee 2000, or anything 'political' or charitable. I will not put a stamp on good work that helps people... I am simply talking about 'exposure' as a band, plain and simple.
U2 are a band. A band is a business. Businesses are to be run in a successful fashion. You need to know when to promote, what message to send out and when to step back. Up until this point (and I am not saying this has stopped) U2 have run their 'business' IMO successfully. They have a good following, they have sold millions and made a ton of money. But they are not perfect and everything they choose and do is not always perfect. So why can't we admitt that? See that? Criticize? It's not a betrayal. It's not not being a good fan. I dunno, maybe I have no point. I guess I just can't see why everytime a person seems to have a different opinion than the 'norm' we are so quick to jump down their throats.

Feel free to do so at me if you feel the need. IMO, I think U2 should cool off. Do their summer tour, then take some time off. Over exposure can be the kiss of death. They have successfully become the 'Best Band In The World', take your crown, bow and go away graciously. Come back when you are ready to challenge the norm again. With new music, a new image and a new idea... tour... goal. ATYCLB and 'Elevation' has been stretched to its limits.
Yeah, U2 should do what they want and yeah, not everyone's opinion matters... but to say they should not care about what people think at all, is naivite. Yeah there are us, who will follow them to the end, but you know, we are a minority, and when U2 stops listening, stops caring what people think, well, then they might stop and I don't want that to happen.

This is a business people. Never forget that.

Well... That took balls, lol. I am so going to get flamed for this, but perhaps you all won't read it this far down, 'cause its so bloody long. haha.

And just to reiterate--> My point with this is not to compete with gherman and his thread and what we think U2 should do or not do... it's about the subject--> and why we fail to see both sides.
------------------
...there's so much doubt in every heart,
for all our faults we carry on
...

[This message has been edited by Ava Adore (edited 02-15-2002).]

 

[Flying FuManchu]

There are some people who enjoy making top ten lists and there are some poeple who like to go against the grain to provoke people. There are those who think anything U2 puts out (even if its just them farting into a microphone) is the greatest thing ever to exist. There are people who are so critical of U2 that if it doesn't fit there expectations, they'll try to "tell it like it is."

I like reading what all of these people have to say, even though on some days each group tends to bug me. This forum needs all types to make it interesting. I dislike the mob...

------------------
~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

[This message has been edited by Flying FuManchu (edited 02-16-2002).]

 

[Saracene]

I reckon U2 should go and be overexposed here in Australia.

Seriously though, I agree that some fans can be way over-defensive, but what I find even more disheartening is this view that just because you disagree with somebody's criticism of the band then you must be a mindless fan of a U2-can-do-no-wrong mentality. Both positions take things to extreme and that is never good.

 

[zooropamanda]

I agree Saracene.

I ADORE U2. I would consider myself a huge fan, hell I gotta be to travel on a plane for 23 hours to see them!
However, I have many times not been pleased with some things U2 have done and I'm not afraid to voice that. I don't believe in this knocking of U2 for the sake of it.
Anyone who reads Wire will know that there are many fans who pride themselves as better fans because they love to be the critic. They think its their duty to find fault.

I openly admit I was disappointed in U2 slightly in 2001. I would never say they dont give enough. NEVER. I owe this band so much.
I was however confused by some of their choices recently and questioned them but I honestly don't consider it 'knocking'.

I have been very open in my opinion of the "world tour" that only included Nth AMerica and a small dab in Europe, but they work damn hard and need a bloody break!
What I was disappointed in was this talk of not being able to afford Australia.
In my opinion that doesn't sit well at all, especially when much smaller bands are doing tours here at the moment. I wouldn't have cared if they had taken 4 years to bring the tour here, it was the attitude that didn't really impress me.
So yeah, hell, I can be critical and I will probably now get my own backlash for many of the comments I've just made here.

Thanks for the thread Ava, its good to see some intelligent discussion around here for a change.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

I remember someone who was on this forum who had the "nerve" to complain about Bono b/c of a Chicago concert. Something about Bono being drunk at the show and under-performing and thus being a disappointment. They felt gipped b/c he/ she didn't feel that they got their money's worth. Then most of the forum seemed to flame him or at the least be hard on him/ her for saying such things. The funny thing is my brother's co-workers went to the show and complained the same thing... ~ sigh

Sometimes this forum breeds a mob mentality.

 

[pub crawler]

BONO IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR.

no wait....

IVAN IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR.

 

[pax]

::thinks hard::

I think that "Shadows and Tall Trees" is a stupid song and I never bother to listen to it when I have Boy on.

That's critical...right?

------------------
If you cannot live together in here, you cannot live together out there, let me tell ya. --Bono

You've got to cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice... --Bono

 

[elevatedmole]

Originally posted by zooropamanda:

I openly admit I was disappointed in U2 slightly in 2001. I would never say they dont give enough. NEVER. I owe this band so much.
I was however confused by some of their choices recently and questioned them but I honestly don't consider it 'knocking'.

I have been very open in my opinion of the "world tour" that only included Nth AMerica and a small dab in Europe, but they work damn hard and need a bloody break!
What I was disappointed in was this talk of not being able to afford Australia.
In my opinion that doesn't sit well at all, especially when much smaller bands are doing tours here at the moment. I wouldn't have cared if they had taken 4 years to bring the tour here, it was the attitude that didn't really impress me.

I really agree.. the "world tour" mainly focused on America. Hopefully they will at least tour Australia in the next year or so -- I really do feel bad about Australia AND the South America for being cheated. Paul McGuinness continues to annoy me with his remarks -- what about the comment he made back in June or whatever about the band not caring about older fans and focusing on newer, younger fans? And the Australia comment made me mad -- they have always toured their before and now it suddenly is off the list? Every comment I see Paul McGuinness make is just money oriented, and often greedy sounding. I know it's his job, but..

------------------
"Very strange looking object you have at the end of your stick.." - Bono

"Bono looks too intense for me." - Rollercoaster Tycoon park guest

"I was drunk, high on him, a shrinking, shadowboxing dwarf following in his foosteps...badly...STARSTRUCK.." - Bono, on meeting Frank Sinatra for the first time

"Bono? Bono is going to tie ropes around my neck? Wait a minute.." - Edge, when shooting the 'Numb' video

 

[senrab]

Very interesting topic.

Here are two things that I don't think U2 should have done or should be doing but who am I to say?

1) Playing Bullet the Blue Sky during the Fall leg of the 2001 tour was a little tactless....that song is about criticism of America's various military involvements. Yes, I know Bono omitted the line "Outside is America" but still, I think that song could have been given a break. When I was at the Hamilton show, I couldn't believe they put that song back in.

2) U2 should take some time off for a while not for fear of overexposure, but so Bono can take care of his voice! His voice was so much better and less raspy in the '80s...if you listen to his performances then, he really had a great singing voice. Now it is disappointing, because you can hear the cigarettes/wear and tear when he sings now. My sister is a singer and she is developing throat problems from overdoing it...and she's only 18.

 

[Saracene]

I have real trouble believing that U2 have had more exposure this last year than at least a dozen of other artists. Alicia Keys, Britney Spears, Creed, Destiny's Child, The Strokes - all had waaaay much more hype and publicity around them, and that's just to name a few. Many people aren't even convinced that U2 are still the big selling force.

Personally, I can't say I'm too concerned about the way U2 conduct their business; not because I think that they can do no wrong, but because I haven't put them on a pedestal of any kind except the musical one in the first place.

 

[Saracene]

As for Bono's voice, although I think that he's got a much better singing voice now, I agree that he needs to take a break (maybe locked in a cupboard with the sticky tape around his mouth).

In other words, whenever we say that we want U2 to do whatever they want to do, what we -really- mean is that we want U2 to do whatever they want to do as long as they're doing what -we- think is good for them,

 

[ms.hewson]

I agree Ava-there can be too much of a good thing.

 

[senrab]

I think Bono croaks half the time...he is a professional singer and he should take care of his voice.

Originally posted by Saracene:
As for Bono's voice, although I think that he's got a much better singing voice now, I agree that he needs to take a break (maybe locked in a cupboard with the sticky tape around his mouth).

In other words, whenever we say that we want U2 to do whatever they want to do, what we -really- mean is that we want U2 to do whatever they want to do as long as they're doing what -we- think is good for them,

 

[Saracene]

I said that IMO he's got a much better singing voice, not that he's got a much better stamina, which is something you lose after raping your voice over and over in your youth.

 

[elevation]

Originally posted by Ava Adore:
Forgive me if I have started a new thread when this is quite honestly an offshoot of someone else's; however, it got me thinking about something... and thought it should have it's own forum for discussion-
Why are we so afraid to criticize U2?

Now think about it. Don't just write down the first thing that comes to mind, because it is so much more than simply being a fan. U2 fans really get into heated discussions about this or that, and we are so quick to jump on the defensive. I am guilty of it myself, and nearly stormed out of a class last week when everyone began to turn our lecture into a 'U2 sold out' argument regarding their performance at the Super Bowl. I was furious. How dare they, I thought.
But... the thing is... and maybe I am thinking too much because I of what I am studying... but, when is too much too much? U2 have been in the public eye for a year and a half now with at least another year rumoured to be ahead. The minute someone criticizes them and says, it's time 'disappear' for awhile, we get all pissed off and can't deal. 'U2 should do what they want, they shouldn't care what other people think' etc... That's where, IMO, we are wrong. This has nothing to do with Jubilee 2000, or anything 'political' or charitable. I will not put a stamp on good work that helps people... I am simply talking about 'exposure' as a band, plain and simple.
U2 are a band. A band is a business. Businesses are to be run in a successful fashion. You need to know when to promote, what message to send out and when to step back. Up until this point (and I am not saying this has stopped) U2 have run their 'business' IMO successfully. They have a good following, they have sold millions and made a ton of money. But they are not perfect and everything they choose and do is not always perfect. So why can't we admitt that? See that? Criticize? It's not a betrayal. It's not not being a good fan. I dunno, maybe I have no point. I guess I just can't see why everytime a person seems to have a different opinion than the 'norm' we are so quick to jump down their throats.

Feel free to do so at me if you feel the need. IMO, I think U2 should cool off. Do their summer tour, then take some time off. Over exposure can be the kiss of death. They have successfully become the 'Best Band In The World', take your crown, bow and go away graciously. Come back when you are ready to challenge the norm again. With new music, a new image and a new idea... tour... goal. ATYCLB and 'Elevation' has been stretched to its limits.
Yeah, U2 should do what they want and yeah, not everyone's opinion matters... but to say they should not care about what people think at all, is naivite. Yeah there are us, who will follow them to the end, but you know, we are a minority, and when U2 stops listening, stops caring what people think, well, then they might stop and I don't want that to happen.

This is a business people. Never forget that.

Well... That took balls, lol. I am so going to get flamed for this, but perhaps you all won't read it this far down, 'cause its so bloody long. haha.

And just to reiterate--> My point with this is not to compete with gherman and his thread and what we think U2 should do or not do... it's about the subject--> and why we fail to see both sides.

I couldn't agree more. U2 aren't God-like creatures and their ideas aren't holy scriptures. They are humans like you and me, and I can't see why it's wrong to critize some of their dispositions (whether its theirs or maybe Paul McG - we don't really know.). I have no problem with that. I think U2 have over exposed themselves during the last year and not in the best manner. (But hey - I still love the band). That's it. The world didn't collaps, did it?!

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"There are only two ways to live your life. One is though nothing is a miracle. The other is though everything is a miracle". - A. Einstein

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Originally posted by Ava Adore:
Why are we so afraid to criticize U2?

because i say so.

 

[Marko]

Here is what I think:
some people here are often too rude and not very good in having a discussion about U2. They take every criticism personal, and than they flame people who put those comments with rude remarks and with no arguments at all.
I like a discussion where I can give you my argumentes and you give me yours. I will read yours, I have all the respect for yours, but I will probably still believe in mine (b/c I'm allways right)

a lot of people here think that only they have the right to have opinion about U2, and if you don't share their opinion they will flame you and they will call themselves a bigger fan - and that is the biggest stupidity that I know of on this forum
Personaly I like to think about myself as not a fan but a pearson who LOVE's U2's music, and a lot of their actions. But being a fan can never fill me with a sence of pride or anything like that. They are people like you and me, they are only in position to do a lot of things and be noticed for them. I'm glad that my favorite band has positive stands and actions, and sometimes they are my rolemodels, and sometimes...

I started to rumble, so I better stop now

------------------
"Everyone loves me
everyone thinks I'm georgeous
they wait for their turn to meet me..." - Me, 2001.

 

[Lilly]

There's always going to be people who don't like your favorite band. Whatever, it's DEFINATELY their loss on this one. But if they go on and on about how U2 sucks well, then they're idiots. You can't sit and argue about if music is good or not. It's all opinion and it's all subjective. Even within U2 hardcore fans (of which there are NONE here

) there is fighting over whether POP is good (a masterpiece) or whether 80s U2 is better than 90s U2 and vice versa. Well, it's all up to you.

And hey, criticize U2 all you want. They're still my favorite band. And yes, I have been known to criticize them myself, so hey, it's just a party, let's all do it.

------------------
90% lazy. 10% something else.

Judoooooooo Chop!

 

[Marko]

Originally posted by Lilly:
There's always going to be people who don't like your favorite band. Whatever, it's DEFINATELY their loss on this one. But if they go on and on about how U2 sucks well, then they're idiots. You can't sit and argue about if music is good or not. It's all opinion and it's all subjective. Even within U2 hardcore fans (of which there are NONE here

) there is fighting over whether POP is good (a masterpiece) or whether 80s U2 is better than 90s U2 and vice versa. Well, it's all up to you.

And hey, criticize U2 all you want. They're still my favorite band. And yes, I have been known to criticize them myself, so hey, it's just a party, let's all do it.

Well that's one more thing that I forgot to mentione: you say that it not good to go on and on about a band saying that they suck - I don't like those things in this forum also
I don't like N'sync and bands like them at all, but here people are acting like those boy bands are thi biggest evil of this world and they constantly repeat the words "suck, crap..."
I mean, when someone publishes a negative comment about U2 we all get excited and people flame him with e-mails and they call him/her idiot, moron, phatetic b/c he/she etc. obviously didn't do his homework on the band. BUT a lot of people here pass judgements on other bands (Bizkit, N'sync, Kid rock...) and they don't go on flaming music and bands but also the people - they call them idiots, morons, old farts and again words like that... how can someone here pass those judgemets on another band when the homework isnt' done? and yet we expect all others to know everithing about U2 - we have to except that there are a lot of people who still don't know what or who U2 is/are...

that's something that I don't like here. Sometimes we act as nobody else is good and U2 are gods... double standard at least

------------------
"Everyone loves me
everyone thinks I'm georgeous
they wait for their turn to meet me..." - Me, 2001.

 

[Flying FuManchu]

A lot of bands/ groups get crapped on from this forum too...



------------------
~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

 

[MSU2mike]

Originally posted by Flying FuManchu:
A lot of bands/ groups get crapped on from this forum too...

Quite true. If a band/artist isn't named U2, isn't legendary, or isn't trendy (in an "artistic" way) they're generally worth less than shit around these parts.

 

[Bonochick]

Originally posted by MSU2mike:
Quite true. If a band/artist isn't named U2, isn't legendary, or isn't trendy (in an "artistic" way) they're generally worth less than shit around these parts.

It seems that way at times. I think sometimes people are afraid to "admit" the other music that they listen to besides U2.



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"Hallelujah, Heaven's white rose,
The doors you open...I just can't close..."

 

[Ava Adore]

I like what you had to say Babygrace, but just one thing---> chances are you won't get over it.

All I know is I haven't, and I have stopped trying to.

Great discussions people. Honest answers and no one has resorted to being a jerk.

how shocking for Interference!

------------------
...there's so much doubt in every heart,
for all our faults we carry on
...

 

[BabyGrace]

Honestly, Ava, because of how much I admire U2 for everything they are, everything they believe, and how they aren't afraid to show it. I... and I know it's ridiculous, I'm not totally blind... but I am cut deeply anytime I hear someone calling U2 corny or stupid or uncool, because I am so proud of their openess and honesty. I feel like shaking whoever it is, and saying, "But you don't know what you're talking about!!! You have no idea what they've been through, and where their beliefs come from!!"

I know it's totally silly but Bono in particular is a true hero to me, probably my biggest one, besides my mom that is, and I'd give anything to be half of what he is. I also for some reason see some bit of innocence in the beliefs of the band, there isn't really, but more of a lack of bitterness towards the world, and I feel like I have to protect that and make people see what I see.

ok, fine Im VERY silly. I know I'll get over it and will not always be fanatic, but I also know I will always have a very special place in my heart for U2.

One thing that does not get me however is people critcicising the marketing/financial side of things, I dont honestly care how U2 run their business or where they are on the pop charts as long as they keep singing to my soul.

well thats my take on it anyway

 

[BabyGrace]

lol Ava, well I'll just keep on hoping anyway

maybe you should start more discussions, this one was enjoyable