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Old 02-15-2002, 05:21 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ava Adore:
I wasn't talking about Bono U2girl, I was talking about the band as a whole and criticism against them. I support Bono in his efforts and separate what he does outside of the band, from the band.
You are confusing this with the other thread.
I know you weren't, i'm just saying a lot of U2's critisism in the media comes due to Bono's "outside" work, which IMO is wrong.

I guess i'm partially referring to that other thread too. I'm saying i may not like everything U2 decides to do (actually i don't - see the start of my previous reply), but i do like what Bono's trying to do. Those things aren't excluding each other, that's all.

OK, let me reply to the "super bowl" media bash you mentioned earlier. I understand how it may seem that U2 is selling out, by trying to appeal to everyone, and presenting themselves so much publicly, but ...
U2 has always been about ambition IMO, and being a good band doesn't mean it's impossible (or wrong) to be popular too.

I think it's pretty impressive to have a fanbase reaching from, i dunno, 14, 13 year olds discovering music and, say, 40-and some-year olds who have been there from the early years. It's even more impressive to be able to draw new generations of fans with each album, or being able to compete (and beat) much younger bands (tour earnings, longevity of career).
And may i say Bono on stage is giving a lot more energy and emotion singers half his age do.




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Old 02-15-2002, 05:48 PM   #22
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U2 had given me so many great things thru their music, they make me feel good, otherwise I wouldn't spend so much time and energy being a fan.
That's why I prefer to concentrate on the good things and not the negative stuff, if there's any.

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Old 02-15-2002, 06:39 PM   #23
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If U2 go away for a couple of years by the time they record a new album and go on tour again they'll be 45 years old and they'll get raked over the coals for being "old farts." It's not fair but that's the ageist industry that Rock 'n Roll is.
U2 had better enjoy this run because it's really doubtful that the young people of the world will ever consider them a vital band again.

MAP
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Old 02-15-2002, 06:49 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matthew_Page2000:
If U2 go away for a couple of years by the time they record a new album and go on tour again they'll be 45 years old and they'll get raked over the coals for being "old farts." It's not fair but that's the ageist industry that Rock 'n Roll is.
U2 had better enjoy this run because it's really doubtful that the young people of the world will ever consider them a vital band again.

MAP

EXACTLY

They are at the point in their career that they can't just go away and take long breaks between album/tours.

They should take advantage of their opportunity and make one hell of a kick ass album that blows everything else away.

Lets enjoy them while we can, we are so lucky to have them where they are now.
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Old 02-15-2002, 08:00 PM   #25
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I think whats been pissing me off the most is that that the majority of negative articles I've read over the last couple of weeks have been completely devoid of fact or any evidence of research.

The highlight of all the articles for me was the one from an Oz report who, whilst having a go about them having nick-names, said "he's 'Edge', not even 'The Edge'....".

Now it doesn't take a lifelong U2 fan or a lot of research to know that "Edge" is actually "The Edge" does it?

its these mindless, factually incorrect articles I sometimes get defensive about. Most of the time, they make amuse, cos its quite obvious the author hasn't got a clue.

With regards to Bono & drop the debt, there have been numerous discussions about who's using who. Personnally, I have no doubt that Bono knows what the politicians are up to and I think the biggest sacrifice he makes for the causes he promotes is that he allows himself to be used.

Is it time for Bono to take a break?, I dunno, ask the dying millions in Africa if the person who's being seen to being doing the most for them at the moment should take a break cos he's in the press a bit too much and, he is after all, only a rock star.



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Old 02-15-2002, 09:00 PM   #26
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I'd personally be glad if America has had too much of U2 because I want them over here in Europe and elsewhere.

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Old 02-15-2002, 09:20 PM   #27
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I think they're criticized because they've proven themselves yet again as artists, and now the critics are trying to find an excuse to shoot holes in their art.

The critics have seen their critical and commercial stumbles, in "Rattle and Hum" and "Pop" and a lot of can be alluded to overexposure.... and I can admit that although as a fan I don't feel this way, they are receiving overexposure in America. They are taking more gigs than I have ever seen before, taking most opportunities they can. People think that maybe they are desperate or they are trying to keep themselves in the limelight, trying to prove themselves again and again when they don't have to. They have taken back the "Best Rock Band" title and they have 2 choices: to back down and attempt to come back again, or to continue on this course as long as they can.

But the critics can't necessarily say that the Elevation era must come to an end as they have been... it's only lasted from about fall 2000 up until now, less than a year and a half, when they have had much longer ones, like ZooTV and the Joshua Tree/R&H.

Forgive me if this does not fit completely together... just a bunch of random thoughts and comments on the topic.

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Old 02-15-2002, 09:33 PM   #28
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I will always criticize the Hollywood remix of Desire. That was awful.
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Old 02-15-2002, 10:02 PM   #29
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Four legs good... two legs bad...
Four legs good....two legs better..

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Old 02-16-2002, 01:21 AM   #30
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All i know is that Creed are playing here in March...cant be too expensive for them.
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Old 02-16-2002, 02:58 AM   #31
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Why are we so afraid to criticize?

Forgive me if I have started a new thread when this is quite honestly an offshoot of someone else's; however, it got me thinking about something... and thought it should have it's own forum for discussion-
Why are we so afraid to criticize U2?

Now think about it. Don't just write down the first thing that comes to mind, because it is so much more than simply being a fan. U2 fans really get into heated discussions about this or that, and we are so quick to jump on the defensive. I am guilty of it myself, and nearly stormed out of a class last week when everyone began to turn our lecture into a 'U2 sold out' argument regarding their performance at the Super Bowl. I was furious. How dare they, I thought.
But... the thing is... and maybe I am thinking too much because I of what I am studying... but, when is too much too much? U2 have been in the public eye for a year and a half now with at least another year rumoured to be ahead. The minute someone criticizes them and says, it's time 'disappear' for awhile, we get all pissed off and can't deal. 'U2 should do what they want, they shouldn't care what other people think' etc... That's where, IMO, we are wrong. This has nothing to do with Jubilee 2000, or anything 'political' or charitable. I will not put a stamp on good work that helps people... I am simply talking about 'exposure' as a band, plain and simple.
U2 are a band. A band is a business. Businesses are to be run in a successful fashion. You need to know when to promote, what message to send out and when to step back. Up until this point (and I am not saying this has stopped) U2 have run their 'business' IMO successfully. They have a good following, they have sold millions and made a ton of money. But they are not perfect and everything they choose and do is not always perfect. So why can't we admitt that? See that? Criticize? It's not a betrayal. It's not not being a good fan. I dunno, maybe I have no point. I guess I just can't see why everytime a person seems to have a different opinion than the 'norm' we are so quick to jump down their throats.

Feel free to do so at me if you feel the need. IMO, I think U2 should cool off. Do their summer tour, then take some time off. Over exposure can be the kiss of death. They have successfully become the 'Best Band In The World', take your crown, bow and go away graciously. Come back when you are ready to challenge the norm again. With new music, a new image and a new idea... tour... goal. ATYCLB and 'Elevation' has been stretched to its limits.
Yeah, U2 should do what they want and yeah, not everyone's opinion matters... but to say they should not care about what people think at all, is naivite. Yeah there are us, who will follow them to the end, but you know, we are a minority, and when U2 stops listening, stops caring what people think, well, then they might stop and I don't want that to happen.

This is a business people. Never forget that.

Well... That took balls, lol. I am so going to get flamed for this, but perhaps you all won't read it this far down, 'cause its so bloody long. haha.

And just to reiterate--> My point with this is not to compete with gherman and his thread and what we think U2 should do or not do... it's about the subject--> and why we fail to see both sides.
------------------
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for all our faults we carry on
...


[This message has been edited by Ava Adore (edited 02-15-2002).]
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Old 02-16-2002, 03:40 AM   #32
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There are some people who enjoy making top ten lists and there are some poeple who like to go against the grain to provoke people. There are those who think anything U2 puts out (even if its just them farting into a microphone) is the greatest thing ever to exist. There are people who are so critical of U2 that if it doesn't fit there expectations, they'll try to "tell it like it is."

I like reading what all of these people have to say, even though on some days each group tends to bug me. This forum needs all types to make it interesting. I dislike the mob...

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~ "You can't resist her. She's in your bones. She is your marrow and your ride home. You can't avoid her. She's in the air; in between molecules of oxygen and carbon dioxide." ~ RC

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Old 02-16-2002, 05:47 AM   #33
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I reckon U2 should go and be overexposed here in Australia.

Seriously though, I agree that some fans can be way over-defensive, but what I find even more disheartening is this view that just because you disagree with somebody's criticism of the band then you must be a mindless fan of a U2-can-do-no-wrong mentality. Both positions take things to extreme and that is never good.
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Old 02-16-2002, 06:07 AM   #34
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I agree Saracene.

I ADORE U2. I would consider myself a huge fan, hell I gotta be to travel on a plane for 23 hours to see them!
However, I have many times not been pleased with some things U2 have done and I'm not afraid to voice that. I don't believe in this knocking of U2 for the sake of it.
Anyone who reads Wire will know that there are many fans who pride themselves as better fans because they love to be the critic. They think its their duty to find fault.

I openly admit I was disappointed in U2 slightly in 2001. I would never say they dont give enough. NEVER. I owe this band so much.
I was however confused by some of their choices recently and questioned them but I honestly don't consider it 'knocking'.

I have been very open in my opinion of the "world tour" that only included Nth AMerica and a small dab in Europe, but they work damn hard and need a bloody break!
What I was disappointed in was this talk of not being able to afford Australia.
In my opinion that doesn't sit well at all, especially when much smaller bands are doing tours here at the moment. I wouldn't have cared if they had taken 4 years to bring the tour here, it was the attitude that didn't really impress me.
So yeah, hell, I can be critical and I will probably now get my own backlash for many of the comments I've just made here.

Thanks for the thread Ava, its good to see some intelligent discussion around here for a change.
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Old 02-16-2002, 10:31 AM   #35
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I remember someone who was on this forum who had the "nerve" to complain about Bono b/c of a Chicago concert. Something about Bono being drunk at the show and under-performing and thus being a disappointment. They felt gipped b/c he/ she didn't feel that they got their money's worth. Then most of the forum seemed to flame him or at the least be hard on him/ her for saying such things. The funny thing is my brother's co-workers went to the show and complained the same thing... ~ sigh

Sometimes this forum breeds a mob mentality.
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Old 02-16-2002, 03:22 PM   #36
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BONO IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR.

no wait....

IVAN IS MY LORD AND SAVIOR.


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Old 02-16-2002, 04:49 PM   #37
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::thinks hard::

I think that "Shadows and Tall Trees" is a stupid song and I never bother to listen to it when I have Boy on.

That's critical...right?

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You've got to cry without weeping, talk without speaking, scream without raising your voice... --Bono
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Old 02-16-2002, 05:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by zooropamanda:

I openly admit I was disappointed in U2 slightly in 2001. I would never say they dont give enough. NEVER. I owe this band so much.
I was however confused by some of their choices recently and questioned them but I honestly don't consider it 'knocking'.

I have been very open in my opinion of the "world tour" that only included Nth AMerica and a small dab in Europe, but they work damn hard and need a bloody break!
What I was disappointed in was this talk of not being able to afford Australia.
In my opinion that doesn't sit well at all, especially when much smaller bands are doing tours here at the moment. I wouldn't have cared if they had taken 4 years to bring the tour here, it was the attitude that didn't really impress me.
I really agree.. the "world tour" mainly focused on America. Hopefully they will at least tour Australia in the next year or so -- I really do feel bad about Australia AND the South America for being cheated. Paul McGuinness continues to annoy me with his remarks -- what about the comment he made back in June or whatever about the band not caring about older fans and focusing on newer, younger fans? And the Australia comment made me mad -- they have always toured their before and now it suddenly is off the list? Every comment I see Paul McGuinness make is just money oriented, and often greedy sounding. I know it's his job, but..

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Old 02-16-2002, 06:01 PM   #39
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Very interesting topic.

Here are two things that I don't think U2 should have done or should be doing but who am I to say?

1) Playing Bullet the Blue Sky during the Fall leg of the 2001 tour was a little tactless....that song is about criticism of America's various military involvements. Yes, I know Bono omitted the line "Outside is America" but still, I think that song could have been given a break. When I was at the Hamilton show, I couldn't believe they put that song back in.

2) U2 should take some time off for a while not for fear of overexposure, but so Bono can take care of his voice! His voice was so much better and less raspy in the '80s...if you listen to his performances then, he really had a great singing voice. Now it is disappointing, because you can hear the cigarettes/wear and tear when he sings now. My sister is a singer and she is developing throat problems from overdoing it...and she's only 18.
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Old 02-16-2002, 08:28 PM   #40
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I have real trouble believing that U2 have had more exposure this last year than at least a dozen of other artists. Alicia Keys, Britney Spears, Creed, Destiny's Child, The Strokes - all had waaaay much more hype and publicity around them, and that's just to name a few. Many people aren't even convinced that U2 are still the big selling force.

Personally, I can't say I'm too concerned about the way U2 conduct their business; not because I think that they can do no wrong, but because I haven't put them on a pedestal of any kind except the musical one in the first place.
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