Who hates Achtung Baby?

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I posted something in the past that's going to be very similar to the post I'm about to make. I wish I could locate my last post but it's lost somewhere in the vault and would take me all day to find it.

ACHTUNG BABY is a great album, and does flow cohesively at times, and would've been improved drastically if U2 chose to rearrange the order of songs.

One problem is - well...the song One actually. I think it's an amazing song, and well deserving of its signature status within U2's repertoir, but the mistake they made was having it come way too early in the album.

Zoo Station and Even Better...go hand in hand with eachother. They are both of the same mold: Upbeat, fist-pumping, bass grooving rock anthems that ooze something dangerously sexual. They also belong next to each other lyrically. Zoo Station is introducing us to the whole self-aware ZooTV Age of Irony (or pretty much the chaotic aspect of life) from a child's point of view, while Even Better...is that child from Zoo Station choosing to accept all of life's bullshit, and focusing in on just the moment, because the past and the future are non-issues. Even Better Than The Real Thing is about setting your sights on something, in this case sex, and mindlessly striving to conquer it. With all of life's complexities, all that matters right now is the sex. The prize. And you're not even doing it for what it is, you're doing it for what it represents. It's the experience, and the moment. And once it's over, it's on the next big thing...that will of course be even better. Even better because it's new. At least that's what I get out of it, anyway.

From those two songs u jump immediately into One, and it totally kills the vibe.

I'm not sure where u would go from Even Better...

My original idea was to have "Until The End Of The World" take the #3 slot on the track list. But I'm not sure it flows conceptually.

You could say the object of desire from "Even Better" resurfaces in "Until The End of thE World", but this time it's an emotional, not primal, affair. That would kind of shred apart the theme they were going for in the first 2 songs.

An idea I had with "UTEOTW" is that the decadent party has ended, and there are consequences that need to be dealt with. The main character from the previous song is forced to feel emotion because of his former lover, and he regrets using her like a toy.

That's the problem with this album. There are two different themes that dont' go into eachother easily.

The Irony of Life:
Zoo Station, Even Beter Than The Real Thing, The Fly, Acrobat, Love Is Blindness, Tryin' To Throw Your Arms.

Love and Betrayal:
Who's Gonna Ride your Wild Horses, UTEOTW, Ultraviolet, So Cruel.

The song One is a mix of both these themes. "We're one but weren't not the same" - there's definite irony in that statement. And the song's also documenting an extreme break-up, with conflicting views on love, where it begins and ends "you say Love the temple, Love the higher law. You ask me to enter but then you make me crawl".

Mysterious Ways is a song that doesn't really fit anywhere. And I love it, which makes it all the more frustrating. To make it work, you could use it as a prequel to another song. Maybe "Who's Gonna Ride". Instead, maybe it could be the sequel. After all, it's about not being able to understand women.

Anyway, I gotta jet. Wish I had more time to finish my thoughts.
 
GibsonGirl said:
Okay, I have to say it. I was going to keep my mouth shut (er, my fingers still) but MY GOD! Some of you AB worshippers are taking it a little too far. So what if someone hates Achtung Baby? So what?! Does that somehow change your opinion of the album? Why on earth does everyone have to love Achtung Baby? Another person's opinion is not going to make you enjoy the album any less, so there's little point in crying over it. Some of you are able to discuss this in an intelligent manner - giving actual reasons as to why you feel AB is a good album. But the rest! Tell me, honestly, how is slagging off Zooropa going to change anything?

Come on, people. It's MUSIC.

Sensible posts. :drool: So few and far between in a sea of moronity. :sad:
 
GibsonGirl said:
Okay, I have to say it. I was going to keep my mouth shut (er, my fingers still) but MY GOD! Some of you AB worshippers are taking it a little too far. So what if someone hates Achtung Baby? So what?! Does that somehow change your opinion of the album? Why on earth does everyone have to love Achtung Baby? Another person's opinion is not going to make you enjoy the album any less, so there's little point in crying over it. Some of you are able to discuss this in an intelligent manner - giving actual reasons as to why you feel AB is a good album. But the rest! Tell me, honestly, how is slagging off Zooropa going to change anything?

Come on, people. It's MUSIC.

Oh come on, we all know that everything every poster says is undeniable fact. :tsk::down:

It's all in the handbook: "The Complete Dummy's Guide to Looking Like a Jackass on a Music Message Board"

I just know the next post about this album will sway my opinion, since the part governing free-will in my brain has completely eroded over time

:drool:
 
LemonMacPhisto said:

I just know the next post about this album will sway my opinion, since the part governing free-will in my brain has completely eroded over time

:drool:

Repeat after me Lemon MacPhisto:
Achtung Baby is a masterpiece. Achtung Baby is a masterpiece. Achtung Baby is a masterpiece. Achtung Baby is a masterpiece.
Achtung Baby is a masterpiece. Achtung Baby is a masterpiece.
Achtung Baby is a masterpiece...
 
Mekka lekka hi, mekka hiney ho
Mekka lekka hi, mekka hiney ho

Your wish is granted, long live Jambi.

url
 
Bono'sTyee said:
Axver, you took the words right out of my mouth. The Fly, Acrobat, and Love Is Blindness are the only decent songs on AB, at least in my opinion. They're more of a deeper type of song, especially compared to the others.

Yeah and next you will be telling me that "A man and a woman" is a deep song or maybe Vertigo........all together for the chorus...........HElllooooo Helloooooo, Fuck Off.....I'm at a place called berkigo.....its everythiiiiiiiii ahh shit I'm sick of singing that.

Achtung Baby is U2's most deepest album ever. Anyone who suggests that it isn't coherent or is throwaway is listening through a hearing aid that isn't switched on or the batteries have run down. Anyway your fuc#ing hearing aids aren't working so get them bloody fixed!!!!!:wink:
 
rjhbonovox said:


Yeah and next you will be telling me that "A man and a woman" is a deep song or maybe Vertigo........all together for the chorus...........HElllooooo Helloooooo, Fuck Off.....I'm at a place called berkigo.....its everythiiiiiiiii ahh shit I'm sick of singing that.

Achtung Baby is U2's most deepest album ever. Anyone who suggests that it isn't coherent or is throwaway is listening through a hearing aid that isn't switched on or the batteries have run down. Anyway your fuc#ing hearing aids aren't working so get them bloody fixed!!!!!:wink:

you forgot "IMO"


the internets1!! police will be after you :ohmy:
 
since it never looked like he was trying to make any serious points I don't think anyone is waiting for IMO's
 
This whole Achtung vs Zooropa thing can be summed up real easy:

Without Achtung Baby there is no Zooropa. There may not be U2 as we know them today.

Following The Joshua Tree we got Rattle and Hum...not exactly an earth shattering follow up. So the next album after Rattle had to be a good one...and it was. Not just good, but great. Achtung Baby kept U2 alive in people's CD players. Had Zooropa been the album that follow Rattle and Hum? Oh boy, DISASTER! While you fanatics drool all over Zooropa the fact is the general population could not believe what a piece hot turd it really was. To this day the only people that can even say the word 'Zooropa' without breaking into laughter are you diehards. That's not a bad thing at all, I think it's great you guys love Zooropa. But just be glad Achtung Baby preceded Zooropa....it saved U2. In fact, it's because Achtung Baby was so great that Zooropa pretty much got a free pass. Rational people granted them the Mulligan they had earned and didn't hold Zooropa against them. Hey, every great band is allowed at least one dog.
 
Salome said:
since it never looked like he was trying to make any serious points I don't think anyone is waiting for IMO's

Everything I say is less than serious.....when all said and done who cares!
 
Well, no one responded to my post, boo-fricken-hoo.

I will say one thing. I love Achtung Baby and am not offended by anyone who loathes it. In fact, I can actually understand why they don't like it, when they explain why.

I will now say the most annoying thing ever: Music is subjective. Well, didn't we all know that already?

Would be great if we could all just talk about interesting t hings, and not about the politics of message board members. For God's sake, u shouldn't even be on one of these forums unless u have a thick skin. To get all rattled by something as trivial as U2 is pathetic. And enough of these goddamn IMO's. Everything, when concerning music, is A FUCKING OPINION! THANK YOU!
 
ozeeko said:
Well, no one responded to my post, boo-fricken-hoo.

I will say one thing. I love Achtung Baby and am not offended by anyone who loathes it. In fact, I can actually understand why they don't like it, when they explain why.

I will now say the most annoying thing ever: Music is subjective. Well, didn't we all know that already?

Would be great if we could all just talk about interesting t hings, and not about the politics of message board members. For God's sake, u shouldn't even be on one of these forums unless u have a thick skin. To get all rattled by something as trivial as U2 is pathetic. And enough of these goddamn IMO's. Everything, when concerning music, is A FUCKING OPINION! THANK YOU!

Actually I did...Did you see that wink below your post:wink: jeeze didnt have to swear... :ohmy:
 
ozeeko said:
Well, no one responded to my post, boo-fricken-hoo.

I will say one thing. I love Achtung Baby and am not offended by anyone who loathes it. In fact, I can actually understand why they don't like it, when they explain why.

I liked your post, ozeeko. Your argument makes more sense than alot of the others. Your point about One is is very true but isn't talked about. Alot of the opening energy in U2's records kind of die with the second or third track. One never really fit anywhere on the album nor did anything else really fit in the three slot. The same could be said about Mysterious Ways as you said.

On a different note, I think the arguments like the album is better live or that it was relevant at the time will all go way in the future. I think that in twenty or thirty years AB will still be considered one of the bands best. When the children of the future hear One or The Fly or UTEOTW, they will fall in love with this album and won't care about what U2 was like before the album or what the album sounded like live. Achtung Baby is a timeless masterpeice that will be realized again and again for generations to come. TJT will do the same but I do not believe the other U2 albums maybe TUF will be able to have this effect.
 
Screwtape2 said:


I liked your post, ozeeko. Your argument makes more sense than alot of the others. Your point about One is is very true but isn't talked about. Alot of the opening energy in U2's records kind of die with the second or third track. One never really fit anywhere on the album nor did anything else really fit in the three slot. The same could be said about Mysterious Ways as you said.

On a different note, I think the arguments like the album is better live or that it was relevant at the time will all go way in the future. I think that in twenty or thirty years AB will still be considered one of the bands best. When the children of the future hear One or The Fly or UTEOTW, they will fall in love with this album and won't care about what U2 was like before the album or what the album sounded like live. Achtung Baby is a timeless masterpeice that will be realized again and again for generations to come. TJT will do the same but I do not believe the other U2 albums maybe TUF will be able to have this effect.


I sincerely believe that in years to come, The Unforgettable Fire will be rightly seen by critics at large as a U2 masterpiece.
 
An Cat Gav said:



I sincerely believe that in years to come, The Unforgettable Fire will be rightly seen by critics at large as a U2 masterpiece.

Great album no doubt and on a different planet to the first 3 which are very hard to listen to now but its not a masterpiece cos of weak songs such as Elvis P and America (which is good as experimental music but is too long and monotenous) and Indian Summer Sky not a good song either.
 
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